The Italian skipper fled! What about you?

Fight or flight?

I wanted to raise this topic after hearing a radio phone in this morning in the UK which centred its' discussions on the actions of the Italian skipper who left his cruise liner with many passengers and crew on board. In spite of being ordered by the coast guard to return he refused.

My question is in spite of all of the conjecture as to why the ship was in the location that led to it capsizing, in spite of the fact the senior officers on the bridge carried out an order thy could have chosen to refuse, what is it about this man that caused him to flee? As the Captain of a sinking ship he surely knew the doctrine of the sea and the rule a skipper is always last man off a sinking ship!

Is his action to flee individual makeup, racial, a training issue (one would sincerely hope not as he is in his mid 50's)?

There are also stories that many other men also ignored the code of the sea we all grew up hearing of 'women and children first'. Is this indicative of a moral shift amongst humanity over the last 60 years? From the media reports the flight instinct took hold of many many people.

In World War two my grandparents generation showed repeated bravery on both sides of the argument in taking arms for whatever it was they believed in. Soldiers fought when they knew personally they would most likely die, women toiled in fields and in factories to support their men, showing a cute bravery too.

I ask you to consider and honestly say which part of the equation you fall on as we try to determine if society and humanity has truly become more self serving than previous generations.

Coupled with this there is a report today that says millions of people died In Africa last year due to the international community dallying on the provision of aid. I say in the past humanity would have acted first and counted the bill afterwards. It is not part of the flight or fight argument but is supportive of an erosion of true community at the core of all humans.

For me fight, I sure as hell would have stayed on that boat to the gritty end if I had been the skipper. I also know I am community minded at the level of my fellow man and do not ever seek to gain an advantage to the detriment of another, maybe I'll post an anecdote or two if this thread gains any interest.

In the meantime let's have your thoughts and any tales of previous actions to back your position. Please be truthful for I and I hope all thread readers will not judge, I just want a discussion about the overall change in humanity not individuals opinions of others actions.

This seemed quite philosophical in outlook, but mods if it is in the wrong place please shift it

[removed unnecessary quote of entire opening post]

There is a question of Why are u taking the job u do,before u do it? Is it the money,or because u love to do it,or both...? I think this captain went for the first answer...or.... He just saved the company which was in minus,with insurance that they will get.... This is logical answers i can possibly have about the case.
But of course we will never know all things that went down.

I worked long in Coast Guard(not in US),and i chose the job because i wanted to help as much as i could,money was secondary reason. By signing contract of some jobs u are going to do,u should know u can be signing your death warrant,question is....Are u going to accept it when time comes,or,u will turn head and go away...

reply to post by John0Doe


I couldn't agree more. Much respect for working as a coastguard, it is not a job I could sign up to and must have required bravery from you to forget your own safety and to compromise that to help others.

In a way for me this is like the. Hangs in society where kids don't give up their seats for he elderly infirm etc, essentially just an erosion of community to humanity.

We are being conditioned.

When I was growing up people would get involved. Certain behavior was not accepted and that was that. Then we were taught to 'not get involved' Later, don't get involved - you could get into trouble yourself. Police commenting on heroes would just about come out and say 'don't try this at home.'

Our society became insular and now no one does anything. Many on ATS believe they are doing their bit by being here. The powers that be are very happy that we all discuss as opposed to take action. We will still be at our keyboards as they drag us to FEMA camps where for once we will all meet and discuss things face to face. Oh, yea, they win - we lose.

P

reply to post by spacedonk


I like to think i would have remained on board - at least until all of the visible passengers were safely evacuated. However, it is difficult to truly know unless you are really in that position. Like i say, i like to think i would stay but perhaps i would instead flap my hands and run in small circles!

It is entirely possible that the skipper in question was suffering shock and therefore didn't really have any idea what was going on. Whilst that would be far from ideal, it would also make it difficult to attach blame to his subsequent cowardice.

On the other hand, he may simply have been incompetent!

I have been in a position before where i successfully intervened in some domestic violence going on in the street. However, i have also been with 3 mates and we were jumped by about 20 men - 2 stayed to fight, 2 (including myself) took to our heels faster than a blinking eye so i guess it really does depend on the situation.

reply to post by pheonix358


That is the word I was searching for! INSULAR.

I can only comment specifically on the UK but obviously read reports from around the world of similar things, but large corporate retailers that have ripped the heart out of communities by under cutting the local tradespeople are very much to blame. The village I live in has only 600 chImney pots, even 30 years ago everybody knew everybody. There were 5 pubs a post office a proper bakers and several shops, today we have two takeaways two hair dressers and an awful retail baker. People in the local community just don't meet enough socially or in the course of shopping etc. too late to run back he clock but now I hardly know thirty people in the village.

Insularity caused by capitalist economics has affected all of our social skills and interactions with non family members or work colleagues.

This pretty much sums up my opinions on the matter

He was in the wrong job. Heroism or not. A simple sense of obligation should have dictated that he stayed.

I believe I would have stayed due to feeling obliged to. Recognition of the responsibility of that role would prevent me from seeking to achieve it in the first place.

Its ironic that the type of people least suited to responsibly discharging the really important roles in society are those who actively seek those roles out due to lust for status and/or financial gain.

reply to post by spacedonk


The Captain is supposed to go down with the ship-or at least stay on board til all the passengers are evacuated. As far as the woman and children first thing, I think in that situation a pregnant woman or a woman carrying small children should go first. But since women want to be treated equal to men they cant expect to be given special treatment.

reply to post by mnmcandiez


So your thoughts on the captains actions are Alex Jones spending 15 minutes not answering his own question?

Man, he must be really struggling now if he is having to use a cruise liner runnin aground for his soap box.

Want to know the secret of the cruise line disaster?

People growing vegetables

...........LOL righty ho! Alex.

Anyway if i crashed a cruise liner like that I would be the first man on the lifeboat and away, forget that noise you wouldnt see me for dust. I'd be an experienced sea captain, I could basicaly jump on any boat and sail it too any country in the world avoiding the need for passports and customs etc, admitadly Im not a very good sailor on account of the wrecked cruise liner and might not get quite so far as a the south china seas, but still, somewhere on the West coast of Africa would do just nicely.

I've been in a situation and didn't run. My father was and old timey doctor -- the biggest lesson he ever taught me was that in a very stressful situation the only useful thing is to control your panic and fears and do the job.

Growing up in the 50s we new a lot of soldiers and heard a lot of stories. The guys I heard stories about were the other kids dads. They just did the right thing.

I have been tested through two drownings and a house fire. It's not heroism it is the right and responsible thing to do. I say the captain was a coward. I guess that makes me a liberal nancy boy.

reply to post by Ixtab


Did you even watch the video? He gave a reason for the captains actions that I agree with. He also gave multiple points on society that the OP asked that I happen to agree with.