reply to post by Blaine91555
You didn't read the material did you?
Polio went away even though the vast majority of people were never vaccinated for it, AND it went away in countries that NEVER vaccinated ANYONE.
The problems/disease as a result OF the vaccine (proven) are exactly like polio, but they changed the definition of polio so they can say it has been
eradicated. The only cases, however, were FROM the vaccine. Clever, huh?
Read.
Doctor Calls Police, Child Services on Mother Who Refuses to Vaccinate Son, page 4
privacy
reply posted on 18-1-2012 @ 08:02 PM by ozmaoz47
reply to post by theRhenn
i don't get flu shots. part of the reason is that basically they are a crap shoot.
the drs. "predict" which varients of the flu will be around during the current flu season. so, they innoculate you for those varients. however, if you're innoculated for strains, a, b, and c and varient d comes around, you aren't innoculated against varient d and you'll end up with that variation of the flu.
it used to be in our school system, parents could refuse to vacinate their kids w/the provision that if there was an outbreak at the school, non innoculated kids had to stay home.
i don't get flu shots. part of the reason is that basically they are a crap shoot.
the drs. "predict" which varients of the flu will be around during the current flu season. so, they innoculate you for those varients. however, if you're innoculated for strains, a, b, and c and varient d comes around, you aren't innoculated against varient d and you'll end up with that variation of the flu.
it used to be in our school system, parents could refuse to vacinate their kids w/the provision that if there was an outbreak at the school, non innoculated kids had to stay home.
reply posted on 18-1-2012 @ 09:12 PM by Blaine91555
reply to post by SurrealisticPillow
Except I was there. Entire cities lined up for hours and hours if not days for the vaccines. That is a fact. In the town I was in people brought picnic stuff and nearly the whole town showed up the same day.
Face it, you are scared of them so you pick and choose what to believe. If I were you I'd more scared of not having them. If I had children I would be a very bad parent if I took an insane gamble with my own child's life based on the opinions of a few radicals instead of the opinions based on peer reviewed facts from real studies.
Look how many chose not to get the vaccine for H1N1 when they knew children were mainly the ones dying. What happened? A handful of bad reactions worldwide. Had it been like the Spanish Flu, many of their children would be dead and in the ground.
You want a lesson in reality, go to any old graveyard and look at the years around say 1913 to 1915. After looking at the rows of little lambs and angels, if you don't come away in tears, your not human. The numbers were staggering. It can and will happen again.
Straight up here, there is no grand conspiracy by the medical community. That is a product of peoples own paranoia and illiteracy. Yes there are those with titles to attach to their names that play those fears and there are people with MD's after their names who should not treat paper-cut. That is exactly why you get the truth from reliable sources where the general consensus backs it up.
I'm also of the opinion that anyone on the Internet giving medical advice to others better have an MD and be able to back it up with a license. They talk somebody into not getting a vaccine for their child and that child dies, it's their fault. Look how many use fear to sell useless products and snake oil to people after scaring them with. It's out of control in my opinion. Those babies who are dying from Whooping Cough needlessly are all dying because of irresponsible adults who won't get vaccinated and give it to children. That is real.
You will always be able to find exceptions. Do you save thousands, tens of thousands or perhaps millions, or do you forget about it because a handful of people will have a bad reaction or because some have an irrational fear of medicine and doctors?
If I'm not mistaken, Skiing is more dangerous than vaccines. That's why everyone keeps citing the same few cases and unverified studies over and over again.
Except I was there. Entire cities lined up for hours and hours if not days for the vaccines. That is a fact. In the town I was in people brought picnic stuff and nearly the whole town showed up the same day.
Face it, you are scared of them so you pick and choose what to believe. If I were you I'd more scared of not having them. If I had children I would be a very bad parent if I took an insane gamble with my own child's life based on the opinions of a few radicals instead of the opinions based on peer reviewed facts from real studies.
Look how many chose not to get the vaccine for H1N1 when they knew children were mainly the ones dying. What happened? A handful of bad reactions worldwide. Had it been like the Spanish Flu, many of their children would be dead and in the ground.
You want a lesson in reality, go to any old graveyard and look at the years around say 1913 to 1915. After looking at the rows of little lambs and angels, if you don't come away in tears, your not human. The numbers were staggering. It can and will happen again.
Straight up here, there is no grand conspiracy by the medical community. That is a product of peoples own paranoia and illiteracy. Yes there are those with titles to attach to their names that play those fears and there are people with MD's after their names who should not treat paper-cut. That is exactly why you get the truth from reliable sources where the general consensus backs it up.
I'm also of the opinion that anyone on the Internet giving medical advice to others better have an MD and be able to back it up with a license. They talk somebody into not getting a vaccine for their child and that child dies, it's their fault. Look how many use fear to sell useless products and snake oil to people after scaring them with. It's out of control in my opinion. Those babies who are dying from Whooping Cough needlessly are all dying because of irresponsible adults who won't get vaccinated and give it to children. That is real.
You will always be able to find exceptions. Do you save thousands, tens of thousands or perhaps millions, or do you forget about it because a handful of people will have a bad reaction or because some have an irrational fear of medicine and doctors?
If I'm not mistaken, Skiing is more dangerous than vaccines. That's why everyone keeps citing the same few cases and unverified studies over and over again.
reply posted on 19-1-2012 @ 06:03 AM by UnderStation
Originally posted by zorgon
Originally posted by mainidh
Or are u one of those free thinking dissenters?
Shame on you!!
Free Thinking...now a Mental Illness
Is nonconformity and freethinking a mental illness? According to the newest addition of the DSM-IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), it certainly is. The manual identifies a new mental illness called "oppositional defiant disorder" or ODD. Defined as an "ongoing pattern of disobedient, hostile and defiant behavior," symptoms include questioning authority, negativity, defiance, argumentativeness, and being easily annoyed.
calltodiscernment.blogspot.com...
I hear they have a cure for it
Whoa... I just googled ODD and got a quarter million hits. I cannot believe that is considered a real mental disorder! I've always been suspicious of the label "disorder." It seems they might be better off calling these things "conditions" or "personalities," but then that wouldn't sound so negative would it?
This is sick...I know this thread is about vaccines but this really threw me off! It's literally "do as you're told or you will be made to."
reply posted on 20-1-2012 @ 03:57 PM by JohnJasper
Let me first say that I'm seriously impressed by the maturity of the posts in this thread. In many other forums, the pro-vaccine scaremongers would
outnumber the rational thinkers at least 20 to 1 but we seem to have the upper hand for the moment.
Blaine91555,
(You've really been through it and I'd be very surprised if you're not suffering from serious chronic illness.)
Like a lot of people, I witnessed the 9-11 attack (via television) but it took 10 years and websites like ATS before I understood what I had seen. You experienced/witnessed most of the childhood diseases but after so many decades, you still interpret the experiences using the dominant belief system.
I like to think that I have a special ability to search out the truth amidst all the dogma and superstition but in reality, I just have a teflon-coated brain that programming won't stick to. It leaves me free to rationally consider the alternative viewpoints and then decide which camp, if any, I will join.
Having performed research similar to DJM8507, I know that, on face value, there is an overwhelming number of research studies that support vaccination as both safe and efficacious. However, what counts is not the number of opinions but the results and that's where the vaccination facade begins to crumble. When you discover like I did, that it's built on a false foundation, any remaining credibility for it completely disintegrates.
Medical profession insiders have been coming out for centuries against vaccination either completely or as practised, but they are quickly ostracised by their fraternity. But instead of focussing just on the heretics, let's see the words of a pro-vaccine doctor about the quality of vaccine research.
In the words of the Committee Chair, Ellen Wright Clayton, Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality:
and
Neither of these statements stand as a glowing testimony to the evidence base and level of science underpinning what is in effect a dangerous experiment with humans as the guinea pigs.
Now see what Dr Thomas Jefferson, who may one day be considered one of the Founding Fathers of Rational Thinking, has to say about the quality of research published in prestigous journals:
Relation of study quality, concordance, take home message, funding, and impact in studies of influenza vaccines: systematic review
BMJ 2009;338:b354
- - -
Correct. You also won't find any random control studies, or for that matter, studies with a control group to prove vaccine effectiveness. Why? Because the industry has no end of excuses for not conducting proper scientific study AND because the public accepts their word that vaccines work AND because the industry knows that such a study would have a negative result.
(continued)
Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by SurrealisticPillow
I'm old enough I lived through having the Whooping Cough (almost died at age 6 and was so sick for three weeks I still remember it), the Measles (had to be placed in a tub of cold water multiple times a day to bring my fever down), the Mumps (I was thirteen and had them drop on one side) and the Chicken Pox. Two of my neighbors died from Polio and I still remember standing in line at the school with my Mother when the first vaccine was available.
People don't remember now, because you have never seen it.
Blaine91555,
(You've really been through it and I'd be very surprised if you're not suffering from serious chronic illness.)
Like a lot of people, I witnessed the 9-11 attack (via television) but it took 10 years and websites like ATS before I understood what I had seen. You experienced/witnessed most of the childhood diseases but after so many decades, you still interpret the experiences using the dominant belief system.
I like to think that I have a special ability to search out the truth amidst all the dogma and superstition but in reality, I just have a teflon-coated brain that programming won't stick to. It leaves me free to rationally consider the alternative viewpoints and then decide which camp, if any, I will join.
Having performed research similar to DJM8507, I know that, on face value, there is an overwhelming number of research studies that support vaccination as both safe and efficacious. However, what counts is not the number of opinions but the results and that's where the vaccination facade begins to crumble. When you discover like I did, that it's built on a false foundation, any remaining credibility for it completely disintegrates.
Medical profession insiders have been coming out for centuries against vaccination either completely or as practised, but they are quickly ostracised by their fraternity. But instead of focussing just on the heretics, let's see the words of a pro-vaccine doctor about the quality of vaccine research.
In the words of the Committee Chair, Ellen Wright Clayton, Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality:
Although the committee is optimistic that more can and will be known about vaccine safety in the future, the limitations of the currently available peer-reviewed data meant that , more often not, we did not have sufficient scientific information to conclude whether a particular vaccine caused a specific rare adverse event.
and
Alleged adverse effects that appear to be immune mediated, as many of them are, are more challenging, in part because the biology is not completely understood. One potentially useful line of inquiry as science advances is to assess whether the vaccine recipient who suffers harm had a preexisting susceptibility to that particular adverse event as such studies may provide insight into the mechanisms by which such events occur.
Neither of these statements stand as a glowing testimony to the evidence base and level of science underpinning what is in effect a dangerous experiment with humans as the guinea pigs.
Now see what Dr Thomas Jefferson, who may one day be considered one of the Founding Fathers of Rational Thinking, has to say about the quality of research published in prestigous journals:
Relation of study quality, concordance, take home message, funding, and impact in studies of influenza vaccines: systematic review
BMJ 2009;338:b354
Conclusion: Publication in prestigious journals is associated with partial or total industry funding, and this association is not explained by study quality or size.."
- - -
Originally posted by Blaine91555
You won't find any long term clinical studies showing that the vaccines are a danger except on very rare occasions.
Correct. You also won't find any random control studies, or for that matter, studies with a control group to prove vaccine effectiveness. Why? Because the industry has no end of excuses for not conducting proper scientific study AND because the public accepts their word that vaccines work AND because the industry knows that such a study would have a negative result.
(continued)
reply posted on 20-1-2012 @ 04:58 PM by JohnJasper
reply to post by JohnJasper
On the subject of flu vaccine effectiveness, here is a sober statement about Influenzae from Dr. Thomas Jefferson (yes again.)
assembly.coe.int...
So according to lab tests, 7-15% of "flu" is actually caused by influenza. The non-influenza caused flu's are referred to as ILI. Much confusion is caused because influenza reporting ignores this...
...and the public is led to believe that the annual flu vaccine covers all flu...
The picture is further complicated by the fact that we don't really know how much "flu" we're actually dealing with because of poor management by the authorities. In a study done by Peter Doshi, a graduate student on his way to a Doctorate at MIT, Peter tried to find out if the US surveillance system really was about influenza-like illness/flu or influenza. He asked the State Epidemiologists or Influenza Coordinators "what percentage of influenza-like illness/flu was influenza? " In 43 out of 51 possible interviews, the answer was essentially: “we do not know”.
What this evidence indicates is that we cannot trust vaccine industry's stats or claims about influenza or the effectiveness of their vaccines. Unfortunately similar sober studies are not immediately in evidence for the rest of the vaccine industry but the wealth of anti-vaccine literature produced over the lifespan of the industry stands as testimony that it has always been under suspicion and should not be trusted lightly.
(Jefferson has a lot more to say about the pandemic industry in the linked document but I leave that for the interested to read. The evidence supporting the above statements is contained in a number of published studies including this one:
Influenza vaccination: policy versus evidence
BMJ 2006;333:912)
On the subject of flu vaccine effectiveness, here is a sober statement about Influenzae from Dr. Thomas Jefferson (yes again.)
assembly.coe.int...
Influenza and influenza-like illness are not the same thing
We start with what we see sometimes several times a year: influenza-like illness (“the flu”). The WHO defines influenza-like illness as “an acute respiratory infection with sudden onset characterised by fever >38°C and at least one of the following: headache, malaise, rigors and sweating, asthenia and at least one respiratory symptom such as rhinitis and pharyingitis”. We are all familiar with this illness but what most people are not told is that the influenza viruses only account for a minority (7-15%) of these episodes. Instead, the world seems to believe that all flu is influenza and ignores the role of some 200 other agents. This is possible because physicians and patients cannot tell influenza apart from (for example) “flu” episodes caused by rhinovirus 16 or metapneumovirus (other common agents of flu), without special tests. The signs and symptoms look and feel all the same.
So according to lab tests, 7-15% of "flu" is actually caused by influenza. The non-influenza caused flu's are referred to as ILI. Much confusion is caused because influenza reporting ignores this...
The starting point [of confusion] is that few (if any) national and international surveillance systems make the distinction between influenza and influenza-like illness either because they do not believe the question is important, because the “system“ is not geared up for it or for other still unclear reasons.
...and the public is led to believe that the annual flu vaccine covers all flu...
Another consequence is the idea that influenza-li[k]e illness (“flu”) and its ravages can be prevented or minimised with influenza vaccines. Cochrane reviews show that vaccines could only affect at the most (i. e. if they had 100% efficacy) some 7-15% of the annual flu burden, since this is the proportion of people with the flu who truly have influenza.
...
Effectively what we are saying is we aim to control a major health problem, influenza-like illness (“the flu”), with a series of preventive interventions which can in the best case scenario prevent only 15% of that problem, while making people believe we can deal with the lot.
The picture is further complicated by the fact that we don't really know how much "flu" we're actually dealing with because of poor management by the authorities. In a study done by Peter Doshi, a graduate student on his way to a Doctorate at MIT, Peter tried to find out if the US surveillance system really was about influenza-like illness/flu or influenza. He asked the State Epidemiologists or Influenza Coordinators "what percentage of influenza-like illness/flu was influenza? " In 43 out of 51 possible interviews, the answer was essentially: “we do not know”.
Most understood the question, but still could not provide an answer because their surveillance systems were not focused on this question. There is an emphasis on the influenza agent only (any biological specimen which is not positive for influenza is thrown away) and the specimens reported thus represent an unreliable and biased estimate of the truth. So we have no idea how much ILI/flu there is and as consequence we cannot say for certain how much influenza is circulating as influenza is an unknown proportion of an unknown whole (influenza-like illness/flu).
What this evidence indicates is that we cannot trust vaccine industry's stats or claims about influenza or the effectiveness of their vaccines. Unfortunately similar sober studies are not immediately in evidence for the rest of the vaccine industry but the wealth of anti-vaccine literature produced over the lifespan of the industry stands as testimony that it has always been under suspicion and should not be trusted lightly.
(Jefferson has a lot more to say about the pandemic industry in the linked document but I leave that for the interested to read. The evidence supporting the above statements is contained in a number of published studies including this one:
Influenza vaccination: policy versus evidence
BMJ 2006;333:912)
Conclusive Evidence That "ALL" Vaccines Are Very Harmful Even Causing Death
Posted 18 days ago with 57 member flags
Posted 18 days ago with 57 member flags
Making a Killing: The Untold Story of Psychotropic Drugging - Full Movie
Posted 15 days ago with 10 member flags
Posted 15 days ago with 10 member flags
Newest topics, updated in real-time:
Meet the 21-Year-Old Millionair Who's Bankrolling The New Ron Paul Revolution
Political Issues: 13 minutes ago
Political Issues: 13 minutes ago
Is it possible to make an RSS feed for ATS? Would you like one? [Solved]
General Chit Chat: 56 minutes ago
General Chit Chat: 56 minutes ago
Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:
My personal Vetting Of Barack Obama: I am now a birther
General Conspiracies: 13 hours ago, 42 flags
General Conspiracies: 13 hours ago, 42 flags
Great Pyramid Starmap Etching Depicts Age of 9200 B.C.E (prove them wrong....)
Ancient & Lost Civilizations: 16 hours ago, 28 flags
Ancient & Lost Civilizations: 16 hours ago, 28 flags
9-year-old prophetic dream, referring to 'beginning of end-times'
Predictions & Prophecies: 9 hours ago, 19 flags
Predictions & Prophecies: 9 hours ago, 19 flags
Secular Researchers' Findings that UFO Activity is Not Extraterrestrial in Origin
Aliens and UFOs: 12 hours ago, 16 flags
Aliens and UFOs: 12 hours ago, 16 flags
Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:
Secular Researchers' Findings that UFO Activity is Not Extraterrestrial in Origin
Aliens and UFOs: 12 hours ago, 141 replies
Aliens and UFOs: 12 hours ago, 141 replies
My personal Vetting Of Barack Obama: I am now a birther
General Conspiracies: 13 hours ago, 92 replies
General Conspiracies: 13 hours ago, 92 replies
Great Pyramid Starmap Etching Depicts Age of 9200 B.C.E (prove them wrong....)
Ancient & Lost Civilizations: 16 hours ago, 65 replies
Ancient & Lost Civilizations: 16 hours ago, 65 replies
The Above Top Secret Web sites are a
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.378 seconds
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.378 seconds
