It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Stigma of Death

page: 3
6
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 12:53 AM
link   
I have always said that death is the biggest lie ever perpetrated on the human race.
Once we make a decision to love rather than fear, embrace rather that resist, then we will look back and
wonder why in the HELL we were ever so afraid. Your programming CAN BE overidden.
edit on 18-1-2012 by Screwed because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 12:59 AM
link   
reply to post by ImaFungi
 


I absolutely agree.

But it seems like our entire evolution has lead up to the production of technology. Technology happened naturally as a means to simplify our way of life, but it's advanced so far that almost every aspect of our life is consumed by technology in one way or another. Computers, namely, are able to connect people all over our planet. It's like the internet has been that one unifying source in our existence if you think about it.

It's really making me wonder. It brings me back to this simulation theory essay I read a while back. If you haven't read it, I'll provide the link

www.simulation-argument.com...



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 01:02 AM
link   
reply to post by Screwed
 


Thanks for the great convo, man. I guess this got about as far as we're able to get. This thread ended up a lot better than I expected. I gotta get going but if you ever got anything else on your mind feel free to U2U or just post here or whatever.

Peace



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 01:08 AM
link   
reply to post by blackmirage0311
 


ah yea ive heard stuff similar but i will check out the link for sure and thanks for it...

I mean the natural path is from simple to more complex once an environment allows it.. simple tools to more complex, once the means to get different materials to make stronger and more efficient tools, to technological advances with energy sources, and micro waves, every piece of technology is relevant and the time it was created and its efficiency to what im saying... i see it as related to the nature of reality, even the structure of our society functions like individuals are cells that build the functioning body, different parts of the body, are different groups of cells who together acomplish a job....

and ideas like telephone or internet is using electricity to communicate distances, like our body uses electric signals, or i dont know its hard to come up with this stuff at quick pace but if i can give you that general vision of how it seems to be all working... your now questioning is it odd for us to be following the path we are because it feels so natural in which case would be weird because then it might be planned? thats kind of like hind site is 20 20, or saying something was fate after it happened eh? im very willing to embelish and discuss more after your response



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 01:10 AM
link   
technology advanced and consumes our life, because we get into rhythms, can you imagine if ancients had the technolgy we posses at their disposal, we are improving our nature, as we used the spear to kill an animal to further our nature then, we use forms of technology now to make life easier and better.



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 01:20 AM
link   
it relates to what i said earlier about how the chain of human species has not stopped since it started, that is the bigger picture, the species, the way to insure you have a stake in whatever future our species has, is to procreate, so that the child you created and their child can directly be thankful for you for their life, now the begging topic of this thread was fear of death, when one cell of the body dies the body does not die, there is a possibility for our species to advance indefinitely, there is a possibility that some day individual consciousness like you and i will be able to experience immortality, weather we will be machine, or some indestructible biological material, they will be able to experience in their form forever... its like man has found himself to be a treasure, the earth itself with the sun working through man, has produced this beautiful creature, created in the image of the universe, with infinite potential, and it wants to see by all means that this creation flows on through time,



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 01:28 AM
link   
one more thing that might be important to ya... how most people get over their fear of death; create a relationship with that that has given you life!! whatever you want to think of it, whatever you want to call it, it is real, you are real, and your experiences and thoughts and lessons are all real, what you discover for yourself and what you make of and for yourself is real.



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 01:53 AM
link   
In history we have been told how death is such as the Black Death in the fourteenth century and Cholera in the nineteenth century,And its been told to us how repellent, ugly, or upsetting death is so i think its been stigmatized into us to fear it .."Death" is a socially constructed idea...

I face death everyday of my life i have a terminal illness since birth but i feel i was put here to get a taste of what this world is about (Its better to have known me then never to have known me) I know it sounds like crazy talk but thats how i feel..I don't fear death never have , because I believe there is nothing on the other side of death to fear.I am grateful for the gifts of love, wonder and laughter.This is just my perspective on things and believe me I've thought allot on this subject..peace,sugarcookie1



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 03:59 AM
link   
In the purest sense, it was almost an economical decision - like calculating where you should invest your money, where should the spare organ be invested for maximum return. The return is usually the return to soceity at large, the return to an individual, is simply the ability for the physical body to remain alive - however, the immeasurable quantity is the value it has to the individuals heart of hearts - confront a young girl with death, and the value of an organ, internally, would be astronomical - confront an elderly person who is "ready to cross to the other side" and the value, internally, of an organ would be minimal.

If we are a truly altruistic soceity, then the internal value comes first, however, we are a materialistic soceity, and it is the external value that is measured.



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 05:18 AM
link   
Much as I believe fully in reincarnation knowing a lot of my past lives and obviously from that the proof that we do come back, I still fear death because I'm leaving behind my loved ones and giving them so much horrific grief when I do die. And, despite believing in reincarnation and knowing my past lives, part of me still sits here and debates against my own beliefs saying "But what if that's just a belief that you hold NOW and it's not really true? What then? What if reincarnation is just in your mind? What's going to happen when you die?"

It's one thing to hold an opinion. It's another to be able to question your own personal beliefs and keep striving for answers.
But we can't really /do/ that.

Because no one knows for sure. No one can sit here and say with certainty they KNOW 100% with no room for doubt what happens when we die. We all have our own opinions. Some say Heaven. Some say reincarnation. Some say a void. Some say we just turn to dust and it's lights out, black nothing for eternity. Some say we're energy and we go on to .... something. Some say what we personally believe is what is going to happen to that individual.

No one knows. As much as I do believe in reincarnation, as much as I do believe in those stories of near death experiences, I still have to question and wonder if my beliefs are based on fact or based on a hope to make the prospect of death easier to handle. I think for the latter, that's the best way to do it, to face it. It's inevitable. I'm not comfortable believing that we fade to dust and are nothing so I choose to hold to the reincarnation theory. It may be right, it may be fallacy, but it tames my fear of dying somewhat. The fear is still there.

And that fear extends to our loved ones. We don't hear them, see them, smell their scent, can't hold them anymore, can't say or hear 'I love you' from them ever again, anything you want to apologize for will never be heard (or will it?) and that's god awful frightening to have to face even though we ALL face it second hand or personally. But we want our loved ones to stay with us as long as possible cuz that kind of goodbye really freaking SUCKS. It isn't like they're going on a holiday to another Country and will be back in 3 weeks. It's a forever, never see you again ever kind of good bye to where you can't even call them or write them or nothing. Ever. And so we do what we can to keep our loved ones breathing and able to function in this plane of existance with us as long as we can. I know people who clung to hope and kept their loved ones on ventilators for YEARS when they were clinically dead, just because of hope to hear their voice again, see them look at them and know who they were, just HOPE to have their loved one back.

Ever have to make that choice to take a loved one off a ventilator and know they're going to die and you can not do any thing about it? I have witnessed it from my friends family and even that was SO hard for me. It's like, so many questions: if we wait another day, they could pull through. If we pull the plug, are we playing God? do we have the right to say when they should die or not? And I hope to GOD i never EVER have to face that decision with any of my loved ones. I'd never pull the plug. I'd have that hope that they'd wake and would be fine. I'd NEVER be able to live with myself if I let them turn off the machines; I'd forever think "maybe a few minutes waiting and they would have woken up."

so maybe this answers your questions. maybe not. There are so many ways to answer your question that no two answers will be the same. They can't be. We all live this and experience it so differently. Death is a dance that has a different song, dance, step and pattern for each person on Earth and as we grow, it changes for each of us as well.



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 06:11 AM
link   
reply to post by blackmirage0311
 


I speculate (I really don't know) that people fear death or decry making choices about who lives or who dies as a projection of their own thoughts & emotions related to those who are close to them. Hmm, that's not a very concrete explanation. I'm having difficulty putting my speculation into words. Maybe an analogy will work better ...

Say I'm married and have two children. Say further that I die. Nothing affects me further--I'm dead. Nonetheless, those with whom were close to me remain and my death becomes their burden. Not for all time necessarily, but in the immediate future my death has consequences. The most prominent examples would be emotional and, potentially, financial burdens.

It may be (this is where I speculate) that what we describe as "the fear of death" represents the distance we try (and do) separate ourselves from the loss of those we are close to and rely on for any number of reasons. Naturally the bigger part of that fear is the potential loss (dependent on what you believe) of self or consciousness, but I'm of the opinion that this doesn't represent the whole picture.

No, I think fear of death is or may be explained as separating oneself from pain, whether it is pain that someone may feel when someone close to them dies or recognition that death will bring about pain within others. In terms of decision-making processes about who lives or who dies (e.g. organ transplants) ... there must be an objective standard, otherwise the process is arbitrary. Being objective is anything but easy when a young girl's life is at stake.
edit on 18-1-2012 by Kovenov because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2012 @ 07:38 AM
link   
I think the tendency of the living to want to remain living is as simple as inertia. Continuance of that state which we "know", an intellect in motion so to speak. Having considered death seriously for number of years, I neither feel that there's some magical mystical realm "on the other side" nor that some creator diety awaits in judgement.
I do not fear or consider the immortality of the soul or what lies beyond this life because whatever awaits will transcend our experience to such a degree that any preconceived notion formulated in this world/dimension is inherently flawed. I strive to carry no beliefs about such things because I admit the possibility that your experience in the "afterlife" could be affected by what you carry with you (spiritually) through the transition.

Choosing life, or the termination thereof - doesn't occur in nature, it's an intellectual exercise reserved solely for humans. Somehow administratively deciding someone's supposed quality of life seems a total abrogation of their individual freedoms and natural rights. Administratively deciding which scarce resources get allocated to patients based on a risk assessment of success seems absolutely necessary. Extending that administrative authority to perceived Quality of Life issues seems excessive (especially when quite a number of celebrities with well known self-destructive lifestyle issues have received transplants).

I'm not looking forward to the unpleasantry of going through a painful or extended process of dying and hope that I'd still be able to choose an appropriate moment and method to resolve quality of life issues for an orderly transition.

ganjoa



posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 11:17 PM
link   
I love to think about this very question. It is a very interesting problem indeed. Life itself seems to be a kind of complexity that arises from simple things, yet those simple things bring it about, and take it away. That is to say, if such things that require no conditions for their existence are responsible for bringing about both existence and conditions, their very properties are not without mystery, as any thought feeling and behavior, or anything we see with our eyes, indirect or not, did not exist prior to us seeing it, and thus are not the objects without condition.

So is death a natural expression of the immortal truths?



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join