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Are you Captured By The Critics of Christ?

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posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by gosseyn
 


Did you not see that I said that I was NOT offended? Pretending the bible is fairy tales is just plain dishonesty and I have no wish to answer questions with a person that is not only being dishonest with themselves, but with others too. The motto of this site is to "deny ignorance" all you have done is embrace it. Anyone who says there is nothing real in the bible related to the real world and calls it fairy tales is just pure ignorant. I am not trying to convert you ether. I won't be replying to you again because all you want to do is argue and justify your unbelief with scoffer rhetoric, but I hope that one day you will see the error in your reasoning you will not find truth with your current attitude.
edit on 19-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


Saying that the bible is full of fairy tales is dishonesty ? I think you don't know how to debate and you don't even know where to start. No wonder you are a believer.. I have asked you very serious questions, but you answer with lame excuses. As you wish.




posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by 1nOne

Originally posted by gosseyn

Originally posted by 1nOne

In my case, facts are what initially led me to God, not faith.
However, it is through faith by which I came to see the light.
When I use the word, "faith", I do not mean, "belief", but rather, "conviction".
My faith is experiential.


Can you tell more about those facts that led you to god ? And also, can you tell why you think good and evil are absolute values ?


The study of political science and political ideology; keeping a close eye on unfolding geopolitical events; following lobbyists in partisan politics; looking into European history and early human civilisations; researching the "Illuminati"; acquiring knowledge about the causes of the int'l debt crisis; tracing the lineage of the Rothschild family and assessing their sphere of influence; taking an objective and unbiased look at the Bible, the Talmud; etc...

I used to be an advocate of the theory of moral relativism. In fact, I would even use the topic as an ice-breaker on first dates to impress girls. After I was infused with the Holy Spirit, though, I instantly recognised it as a false doctrine. I was granted the gift of discerning the content of the hearts of men. I am now able to see through deception and beyond it: I have apprehended its motives and I understand its goals. The enemy no longer flies below the radar and is no longer to be feared. It is deceit that is evil. Our adversary's agenda is to convince us of the superiority of matter over spirit and will go to no end to keep us ignorant and in bondage. Does this help?
edit on 19-1-2012 by 1nOne because: (no reason given)


Can you be more specific about the facts that led you to believe in god?

Also, you imply that matter and spirit are two different separated things, and i don't think it's true. I have no problem in acknowledging the fact that matter is so noble that it can give birth to consciousness and spirituality. In the end, everything is energy.
I'll tell you a little story of mine :
Since the man is able to reflect and ponder on things, he noticed one thing : he is different from all the rest of living things, because he has intense consciousness, intelligence, is able to use complex language and stuff like that. So he made one easy conclusion : man is the chosen creature, because he has the "divine" gift of (let's call it like that) intelligence. He made one other conclusion : what he has in common with other creatures is not noble, not divine, lowly terrestrial, and that is the flesh, the body, the matter. And there came the false dichotomy, the archaic story, that is still relayed today, through archaic texts.

Also, who are the "adversaries" ?



posted on Jan, 20 2012 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by gosseyn
 


"Can you be more specific about the facts that led you to believe in god?"

I choose not to knowing matter to be a mere derivative of truth.
A, "fact", can be the brick in the wall that obscures our view of the real.
It's as Bruce Lee said, "Don't think. FEEL. It's like a finger pointing at the moon. Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the Heavenly glory."


"Also, you imply that matter and spirit are two different separated things, and i don't think it's true. I have no problem in acknowledging the fact that matter is so noble that it can give birth to consciousness and spirituality. In the end, everything is energy."

Recognise matter as the inferior imitiation of the transcendent.
Matter is less noble than spirit.


"(Man) made one other conclusion : what he has in common with other creatures is not noble, not divine, lowly terrestrial, and that is the flesh, the body, the matter. And there came the false dichotomy, the archaic story, that is still relayed today, through archaic texts."

Yes, some early Gnostic texts assert the inherent evil of the Demiurge.
However, as we are told in Genesis 1: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
Therefore, matter, although distanced from the source, still yet derives from the source and is of the source.

Also, who are the "adversaries" ?

They are those who would have you disbelieve, "Stone walls do not a prison make".



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 




reply to post by arpgme 


First off Hell is not for enternity! People have misunderstood that in the bible. 

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 

"The wages of sin is death" that is the final punishment of the non elect,death. God is merciful,it is only the cruelness of man that such a creature would want a fellow human to suffer such great agony for ever. 

Remember the rule God set up in the bible when paul was beaten. A person could only receive 40 stripes save one. So 39 stripes(because 40 stripes is almost enough to kill someone) Throughout the bible you will find that when a person suffers it is only for a short while. The two thief's at the cross both suffered for a short while then the one on the left entered death he is non existence no suffering in a place called hell. (In fact the word for hell actually means grave). 

The thief on the right entered into the greatest joy a human can receive he entered into paradise. 


Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 
Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee , Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. 



But anyways to the point 

You said that baby could be saved because the can't accept Jesus . Well first off John the baptist was saved in the womb,before he was even conceived. Secondly accepting Jesus doesn't mean anything this is a false teaching. No one accepts Jesus. Jesus accepts you. 

Tts 3:Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 

Everyone is evil there is not one person better than the other I'm just as wicked as Hitler or as Martin Luther king we are all sinners. 

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 

There are many people in the bible who believed on Jesus but were not saved for example judas iscariot is one,Saul believed in God but wasn't saved. There was a great multitude following Jesus that turned away because they loved the things of this world! 

There is a verse that says that says something like this " you believe then you do well. The devils also believe and tremble! So just because you believe doesn't mean your saved. 

So yes hitler COULD have been saved or Could have been unsaved. Only God knows the heart. And to many people this would make them mad that hitler might be saved, but people must remember ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD! 

You are almost right about the last thing you wrote we are not saved by works but by grace that is the Grace of God. But we can't accept Jesus Jesus accepts us. Accepting Jesus is a work. 

Sorry for the long post but I hope this answers some or all of your questions/comments. 

Remember God is a merciful God we always tend to look at all the bad things that happen and say "Gods not merciful) but it's our sin that has caused all the bad in this world. Just look at all the Mercies of God. Start with every single heartbeat. For his mercies are more in number than the sand that is by the seashore or the stars in the heavens!



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by ATruthS
 





First off Hell is not for enternity! People have misunderstood that in the bible.


Seems to me like you misunderstood the bible in regards to what happens in Revelation at the end of the story where the goats go into the fire and hell and death is cast into the lake of fire.

Youre right, hell isn't for eternity, because hell is just a holding place built for the Fallen Ones until they can be thrown into the lake of fire with the wicked. Also it's not hell its Gehenna which means to be cast away like garbage and forsaken, like being thrown away into a trash dump or midden heap.

I'm going to take a guess and say youre catholic right?



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by Gigatronix
 





Here's the thing: Why would an Atheist read the bible?


Because some of them like to twist that bible to their own ends. They enjoy it. I've met several of those on here that do it.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

Yes sadly you have people that do this. As an Atheist, I regard anyone who is "atheist" because they hate religion as simply anti-religion. To me atheism is about finding other possibilities besides the god based explanations. Not because I hate god or religion, but because I feel the universe can be better explained and understood without God in the equation. I have no love lost for the religion/god haters, to me it is misguided and totally misses the point of being an atheist.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 07:20 AM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 




Its like atheists have strapped themselvs up in a box which they refuse to come out of so they will never find the truth which can only be found in Yeshua Hamashiach.


I believe the truth comes from within yourself. People have a moral compass for a reason. It seems sad that people would look outside of themselves for truth.



The truth is truth can only be found in a person his name is Jesus Christ the living son of God.


What? You do know that the universe and people existed before Jesus came along, right? So did God, apparently.



Origin, purpose and destiny is not found in religion or science. The answer to mans questions are in JESUS CHRIST! He (Christ) is the path to absolute Truth, He (Christ) is the ONLY way to the ONLY true and living God.


So what are you saying here? Science is bogus? I'm sorry, but your belief is in fact a religion. You believe in Jesus, that makes you a Christian.



I do firmly believe Hell is a real literal place but it should not be for a Christian to tell others they are going to hell, only God can know a mans heart


I recall a thread where you actually did tell me that I would burn in hell...
Hypocrite.



get rid of all your presuppositions about how God is evil and this and that and try reading the bible.


Why do you always assume that people who do not agree with the bible, have not read the bible? You cannot disagree with something you don't know in the first place.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 07:22 AM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 


I would like to know if you follow the advice given in this video...






posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by Tripple_Helix
 


I understand the point you are trying to make but you do so at the expense of violating the same moral compass that you say we all have.

I suppose this makes no difference to you but neither you nor Revelation Generation understands the bible. You may have read it but you did so with the pre-conceived notion of the church. You are right that we are all born with a moral compass; this is exactly what Christ came to teach. The bible says that the thing that you call a conscious or a moral compass is the spirit of Christ living in you. The bible also says the spirit of Christ has lived in man since the beginning.

What the bible does not say is to treat anyone badly or try to explain why bad things happen to people.

You are not correct believing in Jesus does not make you a Christian. A Christian is a disciple of Christ. I am a Christian and I do love everyone, and refuse to judge anyone. Anyone can claim they are a Christian but if they show you anything other than love than they are not what they claim.

I will say that God does say that all will be salted with fire, and that anyone who is disciplined in this life can know that they are sons and daughters of God. So I imagine by your post that those who are evil, but claim to be good, have damaged you. They will be the ones punished, but you must be better than them.

Your life is proof that you are a daughter, because of this it is important that you follow the one command that you know is the truth. Love your neighbor as yourself. If anyone shows you anything that is not love, love them anyway. Love is the only way to teach love. If you respond in hate you have allowed yourself to be brought down to the level of those who try to deceive you.

I do pray that one day you can see what I see and know that it is the Spirit of Christ alive in you that leads you down the path of love. I pray that you can look past those who claim they are Christian but are wolves in sheep’s clothing, false teachers. I pray that someday you may be open to reading the bible and allowing the Holy Spirit to show you the true message of Christ. Whatever path you choose, we all know that the only path is love. Listen to the spirit inside of you for it loves you and will guide you to the truth.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I am sorry & you are right.

I suppose I have a bit of a personal 'thing' with the OP as many of his threads and posts on this site are nothing but hypocrisy and are all about guilting people into believing. I did not follow my own moral compass when posting that video (although it really did remind me of the OP) I just gave in to my bad side. I did think twice about it, I just wanted him/her to see what they are like, IMO. But there is a history there of having issues with the OP and how they portray Christianity. In short- he/she just really knows how to push my buttons.

I did grow up in a religious background (JW). Church 3 times a week and all...for 9 years. I just found that people were being spoon fed and didn't question anything. I find that most religious people are the most judgmental type out there. The OP is a perfect example of that.

I must say, this does not include you. You are one of the very few Christians I have come across that actually practice what they preach.

Thanks for your post.
Sometimes I could do with a good 'talking to'.

And sorry to you and the OP for being so rude...

edit on 27-1-2012 by Tripple_Helix because: typo



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by Tripple_Helix
 


It is responces like that, that confirm my beleif that God does love us all equally, and has provided each of us with the tools to understand that love is what is most important. Thank for the great responce.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by Tripple_Helix
 


There is the problem you have, you see we need Jesus not Religion.

And if warning others of the reality of hell is being judgemental then what is love?

If we didn't care about our fellow humans we would keep quite and not bother.

The Gospel says in Mark 16:15 - "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

I hate religion, so I do not wish to be called religious.



There is a huge difference between Jesus and false religion.

Jehovah Witness are a huge Cult.
edit on 28-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Tripple_Helix
 


There is the problem you have, you see we need Jesus not Religion.

And if warning others of the reality of hell is being judgemental then what is love?

If we didn't care about our fellow humans we would keep quite and not bother.

The Gospel says in Mark 16:15 - "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

I hate religion, so I do not wish to be called religious.


There is a huge difference between Jesus and false religion.

Jehovah Witness are a huge Cult.
edit on 28-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


We have Jesus, if we know love he lives in us. What we need is to listen to him. He is the Spirit, conscious, moral code written on all our hearts. If someone did not have Jesus they could not know love. This is what your bible is saying. You need to understand what the bible is saying so that you can love your neighbor.

Telling someone they are going to hell for not believing the bible goes against several passages in the bible. If one does not follow what the spirit that lives in them is guiding them to do it is then they are in danger. Telling someone to believe in the bible or they go to hell teaches fear. Love cannot be made perfect in fear.

Telling someone if they repent and seek forgiveness for wrong doing they will be forgiven, this is love. Why do you need the threat of hell? Why can't you just use the encouragement of love? Love leads to love. Fear leads to fear. God is calling us to love, through his son that lives in us.


edit on 28-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Jesus is a person and he preached hell more than he did heaven, he did this because he knew the reality of hell and out of love he warned others.



"Telling someone they are going to hell for not believing the bible goes against several passages in the bible."


I have not done that, but I forgive your false accusations that you make against me.

We should fear God because He is the Almighty Creator who can discipline us should we rebel against Him. He is so holy and so awesome that being in His presence brings an inspiring fear. Those that reject God's son should be especially fearful because if they die without the salvation of Jesus Christ they will have to face God's Judgement. On the other hand, we do not need to fear God regarding judgment. As Christians, we have escaped the righteous judgment of God in the person of Jesus (Romans 8:1). We have nothing to fear on the Day of Judgment because Christ took our place and bore the judgment of God on our behalf. “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God," (John 3:18).
edit on 28-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 02:37 AM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Jesus is a person and he preached hell more than he did heaven, he did this because he knew the reality of hell and out of love he warned others.



"Telling someone they are going to hell for not believing the bible goes against several passages in the bible."


I have not done that, but I forgive your false accusations that you make against me.

We should fear God because He is the Almighty Creator who can discipline us should we rebel against Him. He is so holy and so awesome that being in His presence brings an inspiring fear. Those that reject God's son should be especially fearful because if they die without the salvation of Jesus Christ they will have to face God's Judgement. On the other hand, we do not need to fear God regarding judgment. As Christians, we have escaped the righteous judgment of God in the person of Jesus (Romans 8:1). We have nothing to fear on the Day of Judgment because Christ took our place and bore the judgment of God on our behalf. “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God," (John 3:18).
edit on 28-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


What do you believe then, if you do not believe what I said you believe? Does the unconverted Muslim or Atheist go to heaven?

edit on 28-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I believe Jesus is the only way, just like the scriptures say. It would really depend if that atheist or Muslim accepts Christ Jesus as there Lord and saviour as to where they will spend eternity. I do not believe in christian universalism heresy. Don't rely upon anything or anyone other than the Son of God, Jesus, to forgive your sins. The reason people go to hell is out of there own choice... Some people choose to reject the mercy of God in his offer to forgive they're sin by denying the Son and in turn his gift of salvation.
edit on 28-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 





then what is love?


You say that, yet you had to foe me SIX TIMES?

Thank you for making my point for me.


Such a hypocrite.



posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 





I have not done that, but I forgive your false accusations that you make against me.


Now you are lying too...

I'm sorry to have dug this up, but you leave me no choice.


Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Your free to think what you like, after all I guess it would be easier to blank out the truth and deny reality whilst living a life of sin and just simply pretend they didn't exist rather than admit they do, as otherwise you would have to admit your heading to everlasting torment in Hell and that would call for repentance . But a whole bunch of people would disagree with your statement including most of the heads of state and the people at the very top of society who are pulling the strings that are in contact with these fallen angels/demons -- this has been proven.
edit on 8-11-2011 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


This is not the only occasion you have tried to scare people into your belief system.
Just quit it already. Until you can actually show people respect and love.

I am not saying you are wrong in what you believe. You have that right.
But please, stop trying to scare people into it.



posted on Jan, 30 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by RevelationGeneration
 

Don't rely upon anything or anyone other than the Son of God, Jesus, to forgive your sins.

Did it ever occur to you that Jesus came to Earth for more than to provide a conduit to forgiveness?
Jesus came to bring righteousness to the world and he does that through his spirit which he had available to give out as he saw fit, after his death, resurrection and ascent to heaven and receiving power and authority from God's throne.
If God's spirit in the form of the Christ is in people to make a better world, do you think God is going to destroy those very same people?



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