Are you Captured By The Critics of Christ?

reply to post by gosseyn


I am happy to answer all questions to sincere individuals who are seeking truth. What I do not subject myself too is answering questions from people who do not care what the answer may be and are only trying to justify their unbelief. Isn't it only logical if you have questions about certain things in Christianity to read the New Testament?? It tells you everything you need to know. Maybe that is why I suggested it...

I post on these forums to spread truth and expose deception bringing glory to God. I do not take challenges from atheists who usualy if you answer a question they will just come up with another reason to attack Christianity. I answer questions from atheists when I feel like it or I see something which is just a total lie. If I am wrong for going about my business in this way then I ask another Christian to tell me.

Not that it offends me but since you called my beliefs fairy tales I decline to answer any questions until you can convince me you are here to have a mature, intelligent discussion.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


I don't believe in any branch of the church. Personally I don't know of any denomination that resembles the biblical church. Also I am unaware of any denomination that does not teach a message that contradicts Jesus.

Every denomination that I have looked into are established as for profit institutions. The bible says that Overseers also known as Pastors should also work with their hands for a living and not to petal the word for profit. The only thing a Pastor is eligible to receive is the basic necessities, food and clothing. And even this is discouraged by Paul.

Also every denomination that I have researched teaches against the principle of love thy neighbor. They all believe that they have the truth and that anyone who believes differently is in danger of hell. Here is who Christ tells us our neighbor is.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan Luke 10:25-37

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” 27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.” 29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

You must understand the Jews and Samaritans were similar to today’s Christians and Muslims.
So if a Muslim shows you love, who is your Neighbor?

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

Since it is the Muslim that did the will of the father he has proved that he is also your brother.

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

No denomination that I am aware of teaches to love my neighbor if he is a Muslim. What they do teach is convert him or he is going to hell. This is not what the bible or Christ says. So I do not associate myself with them. For the truth is not found in them.

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Jesus is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe. He says especially not exclusively. It is better for all to believe but to love your neighbor as yourself is the one truth that no one can deny. I have yet to meet one person who does not agree that this is the kind of love they should demonstrate. Now it is up to all of us to follow Christ by loving not only the ones who love us but also are enemy.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by gosseyn

 

I post on these forums to spread truth and expose deception bringing glory to God. I do not take challenges from atheists who usualy if you answer a question they will just come up with another reason to attack Christianity. I answer questions from atheists when I feel like it or I see something which is just a total lie. If I am wrong for going about my business in this way then I ask another Christian to tell me.

OP, here's what I know about you. You are under 30, you come from a family of agnostics and you're a new Christian, about 4 months now.

What I don't know is your truth. I have seen you're bible quotes and leaps to debunk science, in order to prove your book to be correct, but I know nothing about your relationship with Christ. How you found him, how your life changed and what you're doing with this new found love, other than posting bible verses on a "conspiracy" forum.

Do you attend church? Do you have friends that you worship with. Do you have a college education, job? What are your interests and how does your new relationship with Christ help you in these endeavors.

How long were you searching for truth before you found it? What other philosophies did you consider? How long have you been reading the Bible?

I grew up in a very religious family, and truly, deep in my heart, I loved Jesus and thought I prayed like the "holy" spirit. I read the bible cover to cover at least three times. I got kicked out of school for preaching too much. lol. But, now I couldn't disagree with your Christian rhetoric more.

I take exception with you believing that by coming here to preach against evolution, you are glorifying God. Isn't his glory all around you, do you think that you glorify God by arguing and judging. No offense, but I don't think God really needs your help. But I would like to hear from you about your experience with Christ.

reply to post by windword


Although I agree with your point, I am sure there is a better way to communicate with him yours. But because I agree with the OP I will provide him with a better source than the one he has provided. One that purely looks at the science without making any assumptions.

www.youtube.com...

For you and the OP a young earth and creationism are at least as likely as the big bang and evolution.

For me I have nothing to guess I simply accept the one thing that everyone knows is true. There is a God. I know the Atheist will disagree but I will stick with what God says on this one.

For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse (Romans 1:19, 20).

Scripture says that God's existence is evident to everyone. So I know that when one says there is no God that they are trying to justify their life and convince themselves. God has told me this so I know that I do not need to argue this point. One can continue to fight what they know is true or accept it and learn how to have a relationship with a God that loves them.

So I have accepted God now all I have to do is believe him, since man has failed to prove an old earth or evolution and is without logical answers for some of the most basic questions I will make the logical choice to choose God.

For the OP I encourage you not only to watch the video but to watch all 6 of the series. All are available on YouTube, and all support creation from a scientific point of view.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by windword

 

For you and the OP a young earth and creationism are at least as likely as the big bang and evolution.

I know nothing about the big bang theory and very little about evolution. However, I can't see how these theories detract from God. 2 to 6,000 years ago, when these creation stories were being relayed, people were simple. The stories were metaphors, not meant to be taken as literal under the scrutiny of today's intellectual collective knowledge. I don't see why they can't exist side by side.

When I see pictures of the Horsehead Nebula, I am awe stricken, it's 4 light years across. I'm sure that God has the patience to incubate our little planet in the big picture of the universe. Even Jesus was in the womb for 9 months, wasn't he?

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by windword

 

For you and the OP a young earth and creationism are at least as likely as the big bang and evolution.

I know nothing about the big bang theory and very little about evolution. However, I can't see how these theories detract from God. 2 to 6,000 years ago, when these creation stories were being relayed, people were simple. The stories were metaphors, not meant to be taken as literal under the scrutiny of today's intellectual collective knowledge. I don't see why they can't exist side by side.

When I see pictures of the Horsehead Nebula, I am awe stricken, it's 4 light years across. I'm sure that God has the patience to incubate our little planet in the big picture of the universe. Even Jesus was in the womb for 9 months, wasn't he?

edit on 18-1-2012 by windword because: ocd

I would accept any age for the universe IF science could prove it and even any age for earth. I simply reject evolution because the concept is based on assumptions with no answer for Origins. I also reject that man has been on earth for more than about 6000 years. Without Adam and Eve, and original sin, the rest of the story falls apart. Thus negating the value of the cross.

Personally I believe that scientist look to prove God wrong, so often times they tend to accept the assumption that disagrees with the bible. There are just too many scientist, like Walter Veith, the one that I linked to who started as Atheist and became Christian to deny that not all scientist agree.

To me if someone reads the bible trying to disprove its validity they will only hear the things that they don’t agree with, thus nullifying the context in which these things are said. The Old Testament gets bashed all the time because people refuse to understand the context. If one is looking for God when they read the bible, they will find a loving God.

If my assumption is incorrect I apologize. But based on what you say about yourself I imagine you were taught an interpretation of the bible that leads to judgment. And those people who taught you would have also taught you that the loving man Gandhi went to hell. I believe it is this interpretation that you rejected and rightfully so.

I pray daily that everyone would read the bible, letting go of everything they were taught at church and be willing to accept that the bible tells a much different story than the church.

Again if I am wrong I apologize but this is the case for most people who grew up in so called Christian environments that have turned from the faith. Too many people have used the bible to justify horrible behavior and judgment. You can trust that they will not be justified by the word but they will be judged by it.
.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by windword

 

For you and the OP a young earth and creationism are at least as likely as the big bang and evolution.

I know nothing about the big bang theory and very little about evolution. However, I can't see how these theories detract from God. 2 to 6,000 years ago, when these creation stories were being relayed, people were simple. The stories were metaphors, not meant to be taken as literal under the scrutiny of today's intellectual collective knowledge. I don't see why they can't exist side by side.

When I see pictures of the Horsehead Nebula, I am awe stricken, it's 4 light years across. I'm sure that God has the patience to incubate our little planet in the big picture of the universe. Even Jesus was in the womb for 9 months, wasn't he?

edit on 18-1-2012 by windword because: ocd

Personally I believe that scientist look to prove God wrong, so often times they tend to accept the assumption that disagrees with the bible. There are just too many scientist, like Walter Veith, the one that I linked to who started as Atheist and became Christian to deny that not all scientist agree.

This may be the case, but it seems to me to be justified. The Roman Catholic Church murdered many scientists who had data that didn't correspond to scripture. They're kinda defensive that way. But I disagree that they are trying to prove "God" wrong. They are trying to prove the "church" and the "Bible" wrong. They are trying to expose the deception and lies that the church has perpetrated. I think that most scientist are ultimately looking for God.

To me if someone reads the bible trying to disprove its validity they will only hear the things that they don’t agree with, thus nullifying the context in which these things are said. The Old Testament gets bashed all the time because people refuse to understand the context. If one is looking for God when they read the bible, they will find a loving God.

If my assumption is incorrect I apologize. But based on what you say about yourself I imagine you were taught an interpretation of the bible that leads to judgment. And those people who taught you would have also taught you that the loving man Gandhi went to hell. I believe it is this interpretation that you rejected and rightfully so.

Yep, Gandhi went to hell and so did all those Japs we nuked! That's the Christianity I grew up with.

I pray daily that everyone would read the bible, letting go of everything they were taught at church and be willing to accept that the bible tells a much different story than the church.

Again if I am wrong I apologize but this is the case for most people who grew up in so called Christian environments that have turned from the faith. Too many people have used the bible to justify horrible behavior and judgment. You can trust that they will not be justified by the word but they will be judged by it.
.

The Bible was written by popes and politicians. God doesn't need paper and ink. God's glory is in the creation, that's his book and bible.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by novastrike81

 

There are no insults in the video, he is just discussing how ridiculous evolution is. You do not have to watch it since it will probably make you doubt some parts of your atheism. (It's hard to suppress truth when its staring you in the face).

Calling someone a fool isn't an insult? Whatever you say. I watched the first minute and it's obvious this man doesn't understand evolution at all.

Actually that was God calling atheist's a fool. The man in the video was not calling anyone a fool but simply quoting scripture for the purposes of his teaching.

edit on 17-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

I guess God is going to Hell then since that's what his own scripture says.

You also forgot to read the title of the video, written by the... man in the video.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Akragon

 

Watch the first 20 min of this video if you want to know why I make that statement. After that the once athiests now cretaionist proffesor Walter Veith talks about Evolution verse Creation.

www.youtube.com...

If you would like to know more about Walter Veith and his credentials you can check here.

walterveith.org...

I highly recommend watching the entire hour and 20 min. Especially for those who believe in the bible or those that are not afraid of the truth. He does a great job logically debunking every scientific theory on the age of the universe and evolution.

This person does not "debunk" anything... his "scientific" quotes are outdated... and he adds nothing but speculation to the arguement...

en.wikipedia.org...

Not only that but he claims that "everything started from nothing"... which is a rediculous arguement.... If anything... everything started from everything so to speak....

en.wikipedia.org...

He even states that there is a "physical matter"... which is incorrect... even matter is a vibration...

Im no scientist, but i don't see this guy proving anything...

And his expertise is in Zoology

Originally posted by gosseyn

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by gosseyn

 

I decline to answer your antagonistic questions as I do not believe you are asking them out of sincerity. If you believe in evolution you have deceived your self. And I am not apart of any religion, in-fact I hate religion. My advice would be if you really want to know the truth, get rid of all your presuppositions about how God is evil and this and that and try reading the bible.

You prefer consensual discussion with nothing at stake? The questions I ask are the reason why I am an agnostic. And your answer is "read the bible"? Why do you even post here? The moto of ATS is "deny ignorance". I see plenty of ignorance in your posts, so i couldn't resist offering you a little challenge. But you are so comfortable with your fairy tales that you are scared to take the challenge..

I say "good" and "evil" are subjective matters, what do you have to say to that ? Do you agree ?

I "absolutely" disagree (catch the pun?).
Moral relativism is of what you speak: the notion that there is no absolute morality, only shades of gray.
The proverbial battle between good and evil is quite real, I assure you.

Originally posted by 1nOne

I "absolutely" disagree (catch the pun?).
Moral relativism is of what you speak: the notion that there is no absolute morality, only shades of gray.
The proverbial battle between good and evil is quite real, I assure you.

What is good for you maybe evil for me and vice versa. What is good or evil for you depends on what are your criteria of good and evil. It depends on your life experience and on the culture you have lived in. There isn't two identical life experience. Things that seemed "good"(human sacrifice for example) in one culture in the past seems evil to us today.

Do you have some facts that goes along your declaration that "the proverbial battle between good and evil is quite real", or is that just faith based and old texts based ?

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by gosseyn

 

I am happy to answer all questions to sincere individuals who are seeking truth. What I do not subject myself too is answering questions from people who do not care what the answer may be and are only trying to justify their unbelief. Isn't it only logical if you have questions about certain things in Christianity to read the New Testament?? It tells you everything you need to know. Maybe that is why I suggested it...

I post on these forums to spread truth and expose deception bringing glory to God. I do not take challenges from atheists who usualy if you answer a question they will just come up with another reason to attack Christianity. I answer questions from atheists when I feel like it or I see something which is just a total lie. If I am wrong for going about my business in this way then I ask another Christian to tell me.

Not that it offends me but since you called my beliefs fairy tales I decline to answer any questions until you can convince me you are here to have a mature, intelligent discussion.

edit on 18-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

Are you offended by me saying its fairy tales? Don't you see that that is what I really think? You are offended by my position in the debate? Don't you think that I may be offended when you say that my punishment for not believing the same thing as you is eternal suffering? Or maybe you dodge my questions because you don't feel in me the potential to convince me, to convert me?
I am not an atheist, I am an agnostic, I know that I don't know.

I say it again ; if you are able to convince me that my answers to the questions i asked are false, you will convert me and i will gladly worship god and believe in hell, heaven, angels etc... But that is not the first time i debate this, and until now no one has been able to convince me.

For a start, convince me that good and evil are absolute values decided by an almighty god. Quoting old texts is not accepted.

Originally posted by gosseyn

Originally posted by 1nOne

I "absolutely" disagree (catch the pun?).
Moral relativism is of what you speak: the notion that there is no absolute morality, only shades of gray.
The proverbial battle between good and evil is quite real, I assure you.

What is good for you maybe evil for me and vice versa. What is good or evil for you depends on what are your criteria of good and evil. It depends on your life experience and on the culture you have lived in. There isn't two identical life experience. Things that seemed "good"(human sacrifice for example) in one culture in the past seems evil to us today.

Do you have some facts that goes along your declaration that "the proverbial battle between good and evil is quite real", or is that just faith based and old texts based ?

In my case, facts are what initially led me to God, not faith.
However, it is through faith by which I came to see the light.
When I use the word, "faith", I do not mean, "belief", but rather, "conviction".
My faith is experiential.

reply to post by Akragon


Anyone gives me threats to worship him or be tortured eternally in hell is a tyrant. Jesus demands this, for there is no way out. Worship me or be tortured for eternity. That is a tyrant.

Not to mention he tries to tell people how to live their life day by day as well.

Originally posted by 1nOne

In my case, facts are what initially led me to God, not faith.
However, it is through faith by which I came to see the light.
When I use the word, "faith", I do not mean, "belief", but rather, "conviction".
My faith is experiential.

Can you tell more about those facts that led you to god ? And also, can you tell why you think good and evil are absolute values ?

Originally posted by gosseyn

Originally posted by 1nOne

In my case, facts are what initially led me to God, not faith.
However, it is through faith by which I came to see the light.
When I use the word, "faith", I do not mean, "belief", but rather, "conviction".
My faith is experiential.

Can you tell more about those facts that led you to god ? And also, can you tell why you think good and evil are absolute values ?

The study of political science and political ideology; keeping a close eye on unfolding geopolitical events; following lobbyists in partisan politics; looking into European history and early human civilisations; researching the "Illuminati"; acquiring knowledge about the causes of the int'l debt crisis; tracing the lineage of the Rothschild family and assessing their sphere of influence; taking an objective and unbiased look at the Bible, the Talmud; etc...

I used to be an advocate of the theory of moral relativism. In fact, I would even use the topic as an ice-breaker on first dates to impress girls. After I was infused with the Holy Spirit, though, I instantly recognised it as a false doctrine. I was granted the gift of discerning the content of the hearts of men. I am now able to see through deception and beyond it: I have apprehended its motives and I understand its goals. The enemy no longer flies below the radar and is no longer to be feared. It is deceit that is evil. Our adversary's agenda is to convince us of the superiority of matter over spirit and will go to no end to keep us ignorant and in bondage. Does this help?

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by novastrike81

 

There are no insults in the video, he is just discussing how ridiculous evolution is. You do not have to watch it since it will probably make you doubt some parts of your atheism. (It's hard to suppress truth when its staring you in the face).

Calling someone a fool isn't an insult? Whatever you say. I watched the first minute and it's obvious this man doesn't understand evolution at all.

Actually that was God calling atheist's a fool. The man in the video was not calling anyone a fool but simply quoting scripture for the purposes of his teaching.

edit on 17-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

I guess God is going to Hell then since that's what his own scripture says.

You also forgot to read the title of the video, written by the... man in the video.

God is not your brother.

Originally posted by 547000
God is not your brother.

So it's "Do as I say, not as I do?" There's always a loophole in Christianity.

reply to post by gosseyn


Did you not see that I said that I was NOT offended? Pretending the bible is fairy tales is just plain dishonesty and I have no wish to answer questions with a person that is not only being dishonest with themselves, but with others too. The motto of this site is to "deny ignorance" all you have done is embrace it. Anyone who says there is nothing real in the bible related to the real world and calls it fairy tales is just pure ignorant. I am not trying to convert you ether. I won't be replying to you again because all you want to do is argue and justify your unbelief with scoffer rhetoric, but I hope that one day you will see the error in your reasoning you will not find truth with your current attitude.

Here's the thing: Why would an Atheist read the bible? If I don't believe in God, any god, what's the point in reading fiction about said gods? Do all believers read textbooks on science? Do we need to read the origin story of Santa Claus to have sufficient cause to NOT believe in him? No, we can make a personal determination based on any information we like. Last I checked it's a free country and I am not required to read the Bible to be able to say I don't believe in it. Invoking any kind of intellectual argument about NOT believing in god is a losing proposition coming from a believer, because believing in god is a not an intellectual matter, it is a faith based matter. If the "truths" of religion were as obvious as you would like us to believe, then faith would not be required, it would simply be common sense and a matter of fact.