An Iranian's view on the whole situation, page 6

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reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 09:10 PM by Gorman91

reply to post by Bicent76

True. But that's why it really doesn't matter as well. After all, sure we would have been in a different place had the 300 never stood up...

But then Rome would have simply rebelled against someone else, formed a republic, and history would be none the wiser, nor the dumber.

Things do tend to retain to a certain order, and believe it or not, if you..say...killed Hitler....then someone else would simply take his place, and history would go on.

There are fixed points in time. They exist. And little can be done to stop them. We are coming up on just such a point. Iran is merely one part of it.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 09:17 PM by Bicent76

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Bicent76

True. But that's why it really doesn't matter as well. After all, sure we would have been in a different place had the 300 never stood up...

But then Rome would have simply rebelled against someone else, formed a republic, and history would be none the wiser, nor the dumber.

Things do tend to retain to a certain order, and believe it or not, if you..say...killed Hitler....then someone else would simply take his place, and history would go on.

There are fixed points in time. They exist. And little can be done to stop them. We are coming up on just such a point. Iran is merely one part of it.

what you just reflected upon can be said for this time....

No matter how hard we try to stop ahem hitler, or the megalomaniac, he will emerge...

Agreed... to discuss it any further we need to be speaking...

en guard...

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 09:18 PM by IranianBoy

reply to post by Rocky Black

in a documentary broadcasted here, 3 or 4 american youth went to isreal to see what's the truth, when they saw the truth about brutality of zionist regime towards palastinians in return to american one of them commited suicide ! you know why because the truth was so horrible and too big for him to tolerate. you are brainedwashed. i say DEATH TO AMERICA (american government) because America inspired iraQ to invade us for 8 years and my uncle in war got injured and i saw him in wheelchair for 23 years with no move but just moving his neck(he was paralized from neck to feet). i say DEATH TO AMERICA( government) because USA wanted us to make peace with SADAM when our province KHOOZESTAN was occupied by IRAQ! and about the OP, he has lived mostly abroad and with all the respect my understanding of the matter is so bigger as i live here(iraN) for more that 25 years! and he is not true about our government. your media just make you see whatever they want! if you are a normal person but once in a while getting angry, is it true to cam you while angry and then just showing it to your relatives abroad and say ''O0 this is your nephew!'' yes it is just what happening to you! they just show you exaggerated things.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 09:26 PM by IranianBoy

reply to post by seenavv

reply to post by Rocky Black

In a documentary broadcasted here, 3 or 4 american youth went to isreal to see what's the truth, when they saw the truth about brutality of zionist regime towards palastinians in return to american one of them commited suicide ! you know why because the truth was so horrible and too big for him to tolerate. you are brainedwashed. i say DEATH TO AMERICA (american government) because America inspired iraQ to invade us for 8 years and my uncle in war got injured and i saw him in wheelchair for 23 years with no move but just moving his neck(he was paralized from neck to feet). i say DEATH TO AMERICA( government) because USA wanted us to make peace with SADAM when our province KHOOZESTAN was occupied by IRAQ! and about the OP, he has lived mostly abroad and with all the respect my understanding of the matter is so bigger as i live here(iraN) for more that 25 years! and he is not true about our government. your media just make you see whatever they want! if you are a normal person but once in a while getting angry, is it true to cam you while angry and then just showing it to your relatives abroad and say ''O0 this is your nephew!'' yes it is just what happening to you! they just show you exaggerated things.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 09:31 PM by mrnotobc

I've totally lost trust in our government. They're no better now, than I was told Russia was when I was a kid.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 09:34 PM by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by empireoflizards

You obviously FAIL to mention the darker aspects (to say the least) of the East India Company and a host of other colonial cruelties done to various countries around the Eastern region. See what I mean? There's two sides to every story. Granted, I'm not impressed with much Muslim history....just as I'm not impressed with much Christian history. It always works both ways.

Yet you claim you understand, and the world should understand why there is anti-American sentiment, as if their reasons are any real excuses for their hate...

I know very well the history of the world, and I am not the one using only one side of history to hype hatred against a nation...

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 09:52 PM by kimsie

reply to post by ZEROZEE0

They have weapons of mass destruction? have we not heard that excuse before?
OH and they also have lots of oil... we need that, SO Lets invade their country and kill innocent children.
great idea and after that lets see if we can fulfill Bible prophecy and really freak people out.

GREAT

great

greatest country in the world.
umm God bless America

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 09:56 PM by Fractured.Facade

A Canadian born and raised Iranian, is hardly a unique perspective on this, but it was interesting.

Being apart from Iran for nearly all of your life would mean that your views are based on what you have learned about Iran from others, rather than first hand actual life experiences...

The Iranian people are diverse and apart from their radical leaders seem to be good people... Being spoon fed propaganda does not change reality, only your perception of it.

IF there is war with Iran, now or in the future it will be because they made every other option impossible... No point in elaborating on it.. Just wait and see.

I was really hoping for an actual Iranian citizen's point of view here, but found the same biased and propagandized material that can be found on many pro-Iranian websites.... Curious?

It really doesn't matter which side of the debate you are on, at least for as long as people aren't being killed.. And that applies to everyone.

All that matters now, is what happens next, and that is completely in the control of the Iranian regime, Israel, and the western military powers... The rest of us... ALL of us, Iranian people included, are powerless and have no control over any of it.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 10:01 PM by ZEROZEE0

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow

I apologize for not clarifying the statement in the way that I meant it. The context I was thinking in was "Muslim Aggression" with a Nuclear Dimension, ie: Use of a Nuke on Israel, the U.S., or Western Europe.

This is the basis for MAD, or Mutually Assured Destruction. Yes... I realized the multiple connotations of such a policy, but we MUST look at this from an histoical standpoint. Unlike virtually EVERY OTHER Religion or Creed on the face of the planet, Muslims are the only ones willing to, on a large scale, blow themselves up in the hopes of killing the Infidel. I couldn't, as you suggest, "Shoot a little child", but what of those who raise that same child to believe from a grade-school age that it is a Glorious Thing to be a Suicide Bomber. How does a civilized nation respond to that?

I am NOT, nor would I consider, advocating for a pre-emptive or "first" strike, but I whole-heartedly believe that a response should be devastatingly swift and unequivocal.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 10:13 PM by empireoflizards

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by empireoflizards

You obviously FAIL to mention the darker aspects (to say the least) of the East India Company and a host of other colonial cruelties done to various countries around the Eastern region. See what I mean? There's two sides to every story. Granted, I'm not impressed with much Muslim history....just as I'm not impressed with much Christian history. It always works both ways.

Yet you claim you understand, and the world should understand why there is anti-American sentiment, as if their reasons are any real excuses for their hate...

I know very well the history of the world, and I am not the one using only one side of history to hype hatred against a nation...

You seem to be missing the whole point of this thread. In the mainstream, in case you haven't noticed, the sentiments are mostly AGAINST countries like Iran. And in these anti-Iran sentiments, for example, there is ONLY one side of the story being told. This thread attempts to show that there are other sides, other people in this world who have legitimate complaints about outside elements....such as Western foreign policies which are far from perfect. All you seem to be doing, among the typical others, is to try to derail this as a bunch of whiny "apologists" who don't know anything and are against the West.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 10:16 PM by milkyway12

Exactly friend! I know people disagree with me .. but need to realize i despise the Iranian government. The People of this population have a culture that they live in. This culture is theirs 100%.

Their government is directly putting that civilian population with this extreme desire to usher in "Armageddon".

Innocents will be killed if war breaks out. I promise you. I do not want to invade for the sake of killing innocents .. but the Americans have just as much right to ensure they are NOT attacked as any other nation.

So the Iranians. It just so happens the Iranians have a Psycho Extremist Government. Their hardline Sharia law is bad enough in my opinion , but threatening Armageddon to Usher in your Imam is overboard and is a direct threat. People under-estimate Iran way to much.

Their government must go. Let the people establish their own government. A government that is not seeking to destroy the infidel.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 10:18 PM by averageGuy505

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

This is part of the reason why the entire world is in such dire straights. Unfortunately the world is full of ignorant people who are willing to led their ignorance speak for them...

America didn't give Iraq the gas they used in their wars, and the mayority of the military equipment Iraq got was from several countries in EUROPE... Not to mention that the provider of mustard gas and such was GERMANY...not the U.S...

What the United States gave to Iraq was some samples of some biological agents which Iraq claimed would be used by their universities to get vaccines. That and advanced computers.

But as long as you hate the United States for any reason right?...even if it is LIES...

There seems to be enough ignorance to go around in this thread. America was a strong backer of Saddam and sold him everything he wanted, including weapons and ammunition during his war with Iran. In '79 when we got tossed out of Iran, the Russians were invited in. When a shooting war between Iran and Iraq developed, the Russians cut Saddam off cold. So, Saddam cut his deal with America, which is how he ended up with Anthrax weapons. This info isn't that difficult to find, yet you apparently didn't try to locate it and as a result your post morphs into complete misinformation. We were Iraq's largest weapons supplier, or rather our CIA was.

America Supplies Saddam

And then we stole Iraqi oil Oil companies given green light by Bush

I think Iran had every right to be paranoid being surrounded by American troops. You would be too.

edit on 17-1-2012 by averageGuy505 because:

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 10:29 PM by USN1983

Originally posted by Atzil321Unfortunately i think war with Iran is now inevitable, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it....

I have my doubts that Obama could go through with it. He knows that if anything goes wrong in the operation - anything at all - his chances for re-election goes out the window.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 10:52 PM by MR_UNSMiLey

All hatemongering aside, this is an enlightening thread I've seen in awhile. This is information I never would have heard during my education as a child and as a teenager. While I do not view Iran's current political faction in a warm light, I feel that America does not have the right to charge in there with weapons on full-auto. My view on our current political party in power isn't too positive either and while in the past I haven't taken advantage of voting powers (I was young and apathetic) I feel that I need to go to the voting booth and voice my opinion as I believe all Americans should, whether I think their views are right or wrong. And before anyone badmouths me I am US Army veteran; I did a 5-6 month in the Middle East as a 13B (Cannon Crewmember) pulling a Force Protection duty at Balad Air Base - I served my country. So with that being said, some of the arguments here remind me of this guy:

YouTube Link

So great job OP! Pardon me if the video doesn't show, I've just barely started coming back to ATS and am still new to all the changes

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 10:55 PM by Sharpenmycleats

reply to post by seenavv

If I understand you right you have only spent the equivalent of 1 year of your life in Iran. So how did you become an expert in "all things Iran?"

I also noticed you started out your thread trying to sound neutral and pro-western civilization. Then about 2/3's of the way into your thread you lash out, quote from you, "How many times do some of you idiots buy into this form of fear SO easily? Even if it's been proven you've been lied to in the past, and by the same people!". I also laugh when people say "No WMD's", Saddam not only had them he used them on Iran. Now if you want to go down the path that the USA gave them to him, then used that against him, well that's a different thread.

I also totally disagree with your interpretation on the threat from Ahmadinejad. To vanish someone from the "page of time", to me means that you not only want them vanished physically but you want to rewrite history to remove them from ever existing.

Now we do agree on one thing. The Iranian citizens, at least all of them I have met are fantastic people. There is no way we should want to kill any of them. I also think if you took a poll most American would agree with that statement, I also agree that most Iranians don't believe death to Americans. However, it appears neither government wants to listen to the will of their people.

I will believe you are not a troll when your thread provides fair representation of both sides of the issues you discuss. if the thread is, "Iran is perfect and all this hoopla and war mongering is just Israel and the West then I say, Government Paid Troll.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 11:08 PM by nightbringr

Originally posted by dadgad

Who cares about what they do?! What moral validity does your opinion hold? You sit there in your lazy chair and you don't care one way or another and are just using it as a pretext. Admit it, you are scared to death.

Blacks have been treated like beasts in your country.

How dare you tell me that I do not care for my fellow man. Pretty high horse your on there buddy. Just because there are problems here at home does not mean I cannot care about the plight of my fellow man on the other side of the world.

And no, can't say I know what the hell your talking about. Blacks fled to Canada to escape persecution and slavery.

I never once advocated invading or bombing Iran. Your narrow mind cannot grasp how I can be against their government and still not want to kill them, eh?

edit on 17-1-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 11:13 PM by ZEROZEE0

reply to post by kimsie

Huh? Did you even READ what I posted in the first place?

Did they forget to teach rudimentary Reading and Comprehension when you were in grade school?

What I SAID was that we should NOT contemplate some kind of half-baked invasion to preempt the fabrication of a bomb, but rather wait and see what comes about. IF they were to fabricate a nuke and USE it on somebody, then we should RAIN FIRE DOWN FROM HEAVEN and incinerate the entire country.

I'm TIRED of sending our boys to points unknown to die for Big Oil and Multi-National Conglomerates.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 11:19 PM by nightbringr

Originally posted by SurrealisticPillow
reply to post by nightbringr

No, I don't believe we hang gays or blacks anymore.
We idolize gays and we imprison blacks...at least the ones that are not playing sports. And in that case, we are back to idolizing.
The U.S., as a country, is seriously "soul" challenged. We really get a kick out of pointing out the evils of other countries, yet we don't much care to for some soul searching of our own.
Like our prison population. Yes, we are first in the world. AND, they work for our military industrial complex. Great huh?
Speaking of our military, how many suicides do we have every year from active members of our military? We don't have to hang anyone, WE HANG OURSELVES.
Pathetic argument to demonize a country. Look at your own.

A pathetic argument is saying that since we have problems here in the west, we shouldn't worry if a government far away hangs innocents in the streets. Your obviously very selfish and only care about westerners.

If my Canadian government did something as overtly evil as hang people in the streets for a crime no greater than loving someone they do not approve of, I would take up arms to overthrow the government.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 11:25 PM by Magnificient

reply to post by seenavv

Nothing you said made any sense. You made a big thing over the map translation, but map was actually correct. How can Israel be removed from the pages of time without being removed from the map? In any non-Muslim mind, pages of time = map, at least in the sense that it was used in your post.

I favor a war with Iran even if it leads to Armageddon and I don't even like Jews.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 11:34 PM by wills120

reply to post by seenavv

Seenavv,

I don't pretend to know that much about Iran and Iranians in general. I will address something that I learned/experienced in Saudi Arabia while working with two Iranians who were truly great friends to me. I spent over a year in Riyadh and I was closer to these guys than any of the other contractors I worked with. I lived through a firefight with one, the other was killed two years later. I still occasionally receive emails from his family.

They were extremely patriotic towards their country but they were extremely concerned about the Ayatollahs, Ahmadinejad, and religious extremism controlling their Government. They were very clear about one concept in general: The return of the Mahdi

They believed that their leaders were heavily involved in trying to bring about the return of the Mahdi and would do anything to bring about a war to that effect.

What is your opinion of this "Mahdi" and do you think this is a goal of the Iranian leaders?

edit on 17-1-2012 by wills120 because: (no reason given)