i am wondering if the real reason why much of the western world is anti-muslim and always sticking their nose into middle east business is not primarily because of oil but because of belief? we see the signs that america is socialist and possibly soon communist, communism is an atheistic form of governmant where the state "replaces" the church. many religious people just wind up their deity rituals for saturday/sunday maybe for an hour or two sometimes another day during the week BUT the muslim PRAYS several times a day......who do you think is more likely to sell out their religion to communism? the west which only worships minimally and basically does not believe in anything other than money OR the muslim who dedicates prayer time several times a day and fasts for the month of ramadan??? perhaps TPTB see muslim religious devotion as the last stand against world communism? or atheistic NWO?

The older forms of Theocracy produced forms of religion that actually brought some everyday experience.
Electronic Theocracy is godless, and indeed, the Soviet system of original Maoism bears a similarity to this soulless, mechanical Theocracy - as does consumerism. So no wonder many are nostalgic towards the previous stage.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by nightbringr
Do you deny Iran hangs gays in the streets with the permission of the government? And do you also deny your president famously and proudly announcing to the world that there are "no gays in Iran"?

Was it not long ago, Black Men were found hanging from trees .
Nice to see you stand up for your beliefs though, you go girl.

Yep, but we have moved past that, havent we?

And when those black men were swinging, it wasnt with the governments explicit permission. Think before you speak.

Did our president ever announce proudly that "There are no more blacks in the USA!"?

edit on 17-1-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

But turning a blind eye, to such things happening IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD isnt exactly proactive, either.
I've read this thread by the OP and i'm in complete agreement with his OP, as it's based in fact.
Fact: CIA/ US has been involved in "nation building" for a very long time, and using a variety of methods....How many times were attempts made to wipe out Fidel?? i think the count stands at 42.
Fact: Western governments HAVE propped up foreign governments, installing puppets.
Fact: Central banking has grown in accordance with the toppling of governments.

I tried to keep to observation only, but when mentioning the particular issue that I personally know, has had far reaching negative effects, I had to speak up.

One of My eldest uncles, while growing up in Arkansas to sharecroppers(yes, i know there were white ones too, but that's not the point of this account, in this specific case), witnessed the ugliness of unsubstantiated Racism and it followed him to his grave. As a child on this land his dad worked, the land owners house was right there on-site. There was also a freshwater creek that was on-site as well and it was common knowledge amongst the sharecroppers that "You Dont go near that creek, Mr. (insert land owners name) don't want us in it." Try telling that to a 5-7yr old growing up on the Mississippi Delta in the summer.....thirst, is thirst.

One day, my uncle and childhood friend were out playing , they got thirsty. They go to the creek and when they got there, they seen the owners kids, who were of the same age roughly, and they all began playing. Eventually, they parted ways and some time later (my uncle couldn't recall the # of days), He and his friend found themselves playing out near the creek again. Some how, the owner found out his daughters had been playing with black kids by the creek and had been staking out the creek since then. My uncle went on to state that, "I heard Mr land owner and some more men yell out to us, and start chasing us. I was able to run and hide at the opening of trees near the creek, but they caught my friend. then i heard him screamin, and then moaning, then he stopped." What happened to his friend, is that when the men caught up to him, they had castrated him, leaving him there to bleed out. This kid was no older than 8yrs old. My uncle said that when the men left, he eventually came out of hiding to look for his friend, and when he found him, he was curled up, holding his genital area in a pool of blood, dead. No police touched it, and no one charged.

From that moment on, My uncle never fully trusted white people, something i never knew, nor did I understand, until My dad and I were doing video interviews of our oldest family members who grew up in the Delta before moving North(the Great Migration)...and that was the first time my uncle ever spoke of it, to anyone but my grandfather(when it first happened). My Grandfather was there to verify the story and I was blown, as I didn't expect to hear anything even remotely close to what they told us. My dad didnt know either, because he was 6yrs old when the family moved north, and wasn't born when the incident happened. Family verified that uncle was never quite right after that incident, exhibited a distrust of white men, and started acting self-destructively(drinking/drugs/fights) at an early age. I was far from being born then, but i knew uncle to be the...well...lovingly Drunk uncle, all my life he was always drunk, but he was also a happy guy then, and until then, hardly anyone could pinpoint where the drinking/drugs came from. Not too long(months) after stunning the family with that story, Uncle drank himself to death.

Self destructive persons/terrorists aren't born...there's always a reason such people are created.

I didnt even want to share this, but seeing as how people seem to believe the fallacy that We (america) is hated for being "free/prosperous" is such a lie. I think that if people knew, acknowledged or even cared about half the things that their respective nations have done in your name, you'd be pissed. We didnt get here by playing nice everywhere.

We are at a point today, where the US stands a HUGE chance of falling to even a worse place than Russia, post cold war. And the worst part about it, is that we don't know who's driving this wreck. Even worse is we all know we've made alot of enemies, so help after the (possible) Fall will be less likely than we realise.

it's NOT because we are the "greatest nation on earth"....if you must look at it, CHINA may be fit for that title...for it's one of the oldest...and it's dealt with the ebb and flow of time. there was a time where it closed it's borders off for centuries, Isolating itself from the world, focusing solely on Itself, and when it came out? It began working toward it's own interests. It weakened the industrial base of many countries by playing to the greed of corporations of wanting MAX profits, by way of lax laws and cheap manufacturing. Lent out $$ to some of the same countries where the corporations came from, giving governments the ability to breastfeed the people who's lost the industry they once worked.



The "Greatest Nation of earth" doesn't, in my opinion, end up having, potentially subjugated, openly pissed off and knowingly preyed upon citizens....Nor does it end up having 90% of it's debt owned by a foreign country....Nor should it willingly send it's soldiers off to fight and die for no less, than SELF DEFENSE. If you end up in debt, Some one either CONNED you, or you pissed off your assets with horrible budgeting. If someone wants you hurt...there's a possibility you've brought that onto yourself, either through something you've done...or something someones done IN YOUR NAME.

For fellow American citizens: There was a time when we were viewed as a great nation, one where you could build a great industry from your garage. or feed the world from your farm and regrow from the same seeds for ever. Where is the industry? Who do you have to buy seeds from annually and whats in them now?

If we want this nation to be what it was supposed to be. We (people) gotta stop what's been happening while we were snoozing. and FAST. non-gold backed currency? crazy inflation/fleecing. end the fed. pull corporate interests out of government workings.


The citizens in this country/world need to wake up out of the slumber we've been lulled into as ask 5 questions:
WHO: Is pulling the strings...REALLY?
WHAT: Is their endgame/ goal?
WHEN: did they start or Do they plan on finishing?
WHY: Did they start it and Didnt I recognize it?
HOW: can I stop it?

Originally posted by seenavv
If anything, the most dangerous country in the entire world to posses a nuclear weapon, includes the same people trying to prevent Iran from having one: The United States of America. The only country to ever use a nuclear weapon on people resulting in the deaths of almost 200,000 civilians.

I think that this part right here was my favorite... even though I enjoyed every bit of it and wished there was even more from the point of view of people on the other side of the fence...

Well done indeed... S&F

The way i see the US today is more and less like a once great singer of about the age of 70 ,who despite the fact that he is getting old, is still insisting on making more albums,not knowing that his now crippled voice only helps to discredit him even more. and it badly effects his glamorous past carrier ......You had your chance and enjoyed the ride while you could,now just make room for other kids on the block,before you ridicule yourself to the point of no return......it pays off if you made friends with a couple of them before they all just turn against you and eat you right up.....you know this way even your grand children will never have a chance to be a super power again.and that is such a pity,because no one is able to carry the name better than you guys........We all cherish and miss those days.......Peace.

Actions of war against Iran occurred in the beginning of the neolithic age, a ripple effect on many ripple effects. It certainly accumulated in the last century through closer degrees of interaction. This is a gradual change that will reach a threshold for complete change.

American politicians either cannot afford to support their own run for office or opt for corporate sponsorship.

Of course the corporations who support a politician want something in return.

Often the corporation has monetary interests in many different locations and wants their paid politician to legislate on their behalf.

Corporate interest foreign policy.

These corporations now are so powerful they would depose one friendly ruling faction for an unfriendly if the unfriendly would do business at a lower price.

This has been going on for hundreds of years now.

Originally posted by ahmonrarh
But turning a blind eye, to such things happening IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD isnt exactly proactive, either.

I have no idea why you say this. Did i ever once state i turn a blind eye to injustice in my own backyard? I can assure you as i have assured everyone else who makes this erroneous statement, that i would fight my government tooth and nail if i found they were hanging gays in our streets.

That aside, i am very politically active here at home and fight injustice here too. You assume simply because i despise the Iranian government i worship mine. Well your wrong.

Originally posted by ahmonrarh
it's NOT because we are the "greatest nation on earth"....if you must look at it, CHINA may be fit for that title

Simply because it is ancient? They do not allow open worship of many religions and violently surpress them (fallon gong), they restrict their people from freedom of information through suppression and control of media and internet. I could go on, but i know you will turn around and point at the US, claiming that our freedoms are slowly being strangled. While i agree to an extent, i have travelled the world, including the Middle East and Asia, and i can tell you that we are still relatively "more free" than China, Iran, Saudi Arabia and more. As a Canadian, i can travel when i want, work any job i choose, am free to get any education i can afford, and if i cannot afford it, i can work my ass off at 2 jobs, save and better myself. I (if i am so inclined), can be openly gay and not fear persecution or death. I can have multiple children, openly protest against my government without fear of the dreaded Basij imprisoning and torturing me. Yes, we Westerners take many things for granted.

Originally posted by ahmonrarh
The "Greatest Nation of earth" doesn't, in my opinion, end up having, potentially subjugated, openly pissed off and knowingly preyed upon citizens

Yes, it has done terrible things to its own citizens, but i would hazzard to say much less than most eastern countries have to theirs, Iran included. The USA for many years had one of the highest standards of living of any country on earth, period. Is this how they punish their citizens?

Originally posted by ahmonrarh
....Nor does it end up having 90% of it's debt owned by a foreign country....Nor should it willingly send it's soldiers off to fight and die for no less, than SELF DEFENSE. If you end up in debt, Some one either CONNED you, or you pissed off your assets with horrible budgeting. If someone wants you hurt...there's a possibility you've brought that onto yourself, either through something you've done...or something someones done IN YOUR NAME.

With this i agree completely.

Originally posted by ahmonrarh
If we want this nation to be what it was supposed to be. We (people) gotta stop what's been happening while we were snoozing. and FAST. non-gold backed currency? crazy inflation/fleecing. end the fed. pull corporate interests out of government workings.

Say what you want about the oil backed currency, but it is what has allowed the USA to remain on top for so long, and allow them to print vast amounts of money to bolster their currency when it otherwise would have collapsed. Im not saying this is smart, but it has allowed the US vast amounts of leeway in what they do and when. You want your economy to collapse overnight? De-peg your dollar from oil.

IRAN DECLARED WAR ON THE U.S. & ISRAEL IN 1979:
When will you "cry baby's" stop saying we want war?
We won the war = WWII & gave back Iran it freedon untill the current wako's took over.....
Why have we waited so long. A full generation! =
To give the Iranian people one more generation of hope & wisdom.
Before the final bombs will be dropped!

Bomb first or die first. Pick your poison!

S&F OP,

Thanks for the thread.

I think any country who tries to rule using tierany and oppression of it's people in today's world will find it hard to stay in power. During the Soviet occupation of the eastern block countries they were able to maintain power buy limiting the amount of outside news and information the citizens were exposed to. In today's world information is sent and received at the speed of light. People who live under oppression can have accual communications with the outside world. I'm sure that when you get past all the radical idiots running around most people in the world just want to live and enjoy their lives. I think the Arab spring will continue to toppel governments in that area as the people become fed up with being treated like animals.