An Iranian's view on the whole situation

Originally posted by Sek82
One more thing, unless you are a servicemember who is trained and lined up ready to go to fight them, for whatever reasons you think might be legitimate, your opinion is an empty one to me, an arm chair warrior who's life won't be in jeopardy when there will be, and believe me there will be, great consequences for such an action - You're just in it for the entertainment value, not fooling anyone.

Loving your country is fine (as long as it's for the right reasons). Fighting for it is certainly honorable (as long as you're not killing civilians). Being obedient and knowing how/when to take action can be virtues as well (so long as you are obeying someone who is truthful to you). But this idea that people who don't serve in the military should have no say in what the military does (or rather, even merely an opinion of it) is preposterous! Where does that even come from? If military SERVES, then who are you serving exactly? I thought it was supposed to be the people (civilians) of your country, which you seem to despise.

And without any attempts to be insulting, considering the amount of propaganda generated to the masses about justification for war or any other vile action the government might take, do you actually think within the military you are not getting just as much false information from those very same leaders? Just think about that for a second. Anyone ready to send you off to war has every reason to make your supposed enemies seem like the most repulsive people on the planet. Otherwise, you might think twice before taking out your target, and that is something they DO NOT WANT you to do (think about your actions).

What I hear from any soldiers is that America is great, can do no wrong, and that might and power are what give people freedom (somehow?). But I think a lot of servicemen, who have experienced serious emotional trauma and/or discomfort and pain during times of war, are simply in denial about the government lying to ANYONE. You simply don't want to believe it because if you do for even a second, all the combat actions you've taken, all the training, will have been for some seriously evil purposes, and it is probably just too much to bear.

It would be like the ultimate betrayal, someone trains you how to kill, sends you to actually kill people, then you learn you were killing good people. It's tough, but I can understand why that would be extremely hard to accept.

Here is the truth: any serviceman (like yourself obviously) who remains decidedly ignorant (not even taking opinions of anyone else seriously) and wants to bang the war drums, puts all of us (the civilians, trying to advance society in ways other than by fighting) in danger. Not just U.S. civilians, and not just Iranian civilians....ALL of us. It's not IRAN that is putting the world in danger, it is the idea of "taking out" perceived threats with very little or no evidence that puts the world in danger.

And if you can't look at a country like Iran through more than one lens (seeing it as some sort of single entity with only one personality), then I'm not sure you're cut out to be a serviceman to begin with. You can't just lump all of those people together, and think everyone in that country is as bad as their leadership.

I'm probably not going to change your mind or get anywhere with you, but I get tired of seeing the "if you can't fight, you're worthless" sort of opinion, because it's kind of scary and ludacris to say the least.

I am ATTEMPTING to understand your side, but unless you discuss openly instead of just bashing all day, no one truly will. Emotional rhetoric is good for motivating people to take action, but not good for winning a debate (one online nonetheless).

As for the OP itself, I enjoy the perspective, and I didn't know much about the U.S. / Iran history. This is really good to know! It paints a pretty crappy image of the U.S. government, but they kind of do that to themselves these days anyway.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by shansen

 

So are the black veils over a woman's face a protest against American consumerism, or just a domination over women by machismo guys? Is it religious or cultural. I didn't see those black veils while I was in Tunisia, so I'm guessing it is more Shia than Sunni.

Oh, man... there are really smart people around the world trying to figure the whole veil thing and they're still working on it, ha-ha!
I am not that smart, nor having enough information to make pertinent statements about the thing in question.
Besides, I am European so my views on the Islamic traditions are pretty limited by the inevitable cultural barrier...
Shia and Sunni? Heavy stuff, dude. For me, they are as strange as the Christian Orthodox and Catholic doctrines...
I'm sorry, but I just cannot comprehend how a dead guy came back to life after 3 days - being really dead, that is - like I cannot comprehend the fact that some dude up there embraced the Moon until it looked like a sickle... I just can't, no offense.

What I CAN tell you, though, is that this consumerism placed us on a very steep and dangerous path, and paying now with money for what we need, we might pay with our own way of life later. And THAT will be bad.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by dadgad

Who cares about what they do?! What moral validity does your opinion hold? You sit there in your lazy chair and you don't care one way or another and are just using it as a pretext. Admit it, you are scared to death.

Blacks have been treated like beasts in your country.

How dare you tell me that I do not care for my fellow man. Pretty high horse your on there buddy. Just because there are problems here at home does not mean I cannot care about the plight of my fellow man on the other side of the world.

And no, can't say I know what the hell your talking about. Blacks fled to Canada to escape persecution and slavery.

I never once advocated invading or bombing Iran. Your narrow mind cannot grasp how I can be against their government and still not want to kill them, eh?

edit on 17-1-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

Alright then. I believe you, you care about their faith.

But really, does it have anything to do with the discussion?

They are a sovereign nation on their own, we have no right to interfere, hard to accept maybe, but it's really how the rules work.

A lot of people are using their regime as a sort of pretext to interfere, I mistook you for one.

Originally posted by Tachyeon
I agree US has done some bad things but its nice to know that in the USA you can write your post and give your opinions without being drug out of your house the next day and shot. True we don't have the best government and there is always room for improvement but at least we can make the changes and for the most part our vote counts. Even though I don't always agree with my government I love my country plus all my stuff is here. So let sum it up for anyone talking crap about the USA get used to it, we bringing the new world order Beastie Boy Style.

Ali Baba and the forty thieves

Torching and crakin' and rhymin' and stealin'
Robbin' and raping - busting two in the ceiling
I'm wheeling' - I'm dealin' - I'm drinking, not thinking
Never cower, never shower - and I'm always stinking
Ho ho ho and a pint of Brass Monkey
And when my girlie shakes her hips - she sure gets funky
Skirt chasing, free basing - killing every village
We drink and rob and rhyme and pillage

Rhymin' and stealin' in a drunken state
And I'll be rockin' my rhymes all the way to Hell's gate

To me these are two completely separate issues. The freedoms you enjoy in contrast to the freedoms being suppressed in Iran, and foreign interference. Nothing justifies what US does on foreign soil. And the more they continue doing this the more resistance will be born and the more radical it will be and the more afraid the Western people will be and the more the US will be able to continue under the pretext of 'security'. We are all being played like a stack of cards.

Leave these people alone and their attitudes will change.

I know there is going to be a point where the entire world will turn against America. It will happen. America's popularity is in serious decline all over the world. There will be a point, it will turn into a gigantic war. And all these fat, dumb, gullible war mongering Americans will learn what it is to live in true terror. Mark my words, it will happen. I might be dead by that time, who knows. But I know, things have a way of turning around.

One point the video seems to gloss over pretty well but is very valid and VERY important to the discussion:

In 1951, when Iran nationalized the oil industry, they essentially declared war on the British government. Those resources were developed and built by the British - using British pounds - as an investment.

Essentially, Iran decided they liked the new found "fruits" of the UK's labor and just stole it.

Thats right - just took it away and said "MINE NOW... SORRY".

To put it into perspective today: it'd be like China just "nationalizing" United States companies car plants that are based out of China. If Ford Motor company invests $600 million into a plant in China and trains the workers and imports the resources... but then China just "assumes" ownership of that plant - that's a direct attack on US interested and US citizens.

It's essentially nothing more than piracy on land.

Iran made a move in the game of world politics that they've been paying for ever since. You can shift the blame how ever you like, but it's not like the United States or the UK just up and decided to do regime change because it's fun. They did this as an ALTERNATIVE to invading the country then and just taking over. Strategic mistake? Probably, but would you have rather had option B?

I'm not saying either side is "right" or "wrong"... but there are many moving parts to this equation...

reply to post by seenavv


Pages of time = Map to all but insane Iranians trying to backtrack out of something they said. You can't wipe Israel from the pages of time without wiping them from the map. You can't wipe them from the map without removing them from the pages of time. Even a first grader could see that the two are equal.

There are some really bizarre comments in this thread, it's almost as if some people just completely ignored the OP's post to type their usual anti-Iranian tripe. Are bots operating on ATS?

reply to post by gncnew



Totaly wrong mate

I guess you have to re-read the Iran and Iranian History for the past 150 years, and then you will know that what you’ve just said about British investments on Iranian oil sector was totally wrong.

Read the excellent books like from (Pahlavi to Pahlavi) and from (svaad kooh to Johannesburg), you’ll see clearly how those blood suckers stealing the Iranian national treasures in their favourite for ages since the Qajar Dynasty.

I wonder what you really know about Iran which makes you so assertive.

You know nothing…!

Originally posted by Atzil321
I enjoyed reading this well thought out thread, thanks for posting. Unfortunately i think war with Iran is now inevitable, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it....

Sadly I would have to agree with you here Atzil. Just last week I remember hearing about a federal judge saying there is information pointing to iran being the master mind behind 9/11... I about fell out of my chair when I heard that. I guarentee there are people out there that lost loved ones on 9/11 that now feel we should attack Iran because of this information... Killing another million people won't justifie the loss of a few thousand Americans. Nothing will until the true master minds are exposed behind the 9/11 terrorist attack. But for anyone who has read the "official report" can see this info will never be made public because the people that helped with 9/11 and the people that own the media are one in the same. We were attacked by the corprate world not some dude's living in a cave somewhere... The "dude's" in the cave just came in to do the dirty work and play the patsy.

Ooh and S&F OP for the great post this has been bothering me for some time now. Humanity needs to get over these petty differences and band together to stop this global take over. Lets use the power of the internet to unite and fight this... Or before we know it we will be living in 1984. No more nations just a few giant corp's running the entire world, fighting for precious resourses just to gain an edge over there counterparts.

Originally posted by amkia
reply to post by gncnew

 

Totaly wrong mate

I guess you have to re-read the Iran and Iranian History for the past 150 years, and then you will know that what you’ve just said about British investments on Iranian oil sector was totally wrong.

Read the excellent books like from (Pahlavi to Pahlavi) and from (svaad kooh to Johannesburg), you’ll see clearly how those blood suckers stealing the Iranian national treasures in their favourite for ages since the Qajar Dynasty.

I wonder what you really know about Iran which makes you so assertive.

You know nothing…!

When the United Kingdom came to Iran, they were NOT doing anything with the oil reserves. This wasn't a treasure they were taking from the Iranians.

Here's a similar scenario: you own a 100 acre farm and raise cattle on it. A guy comes along and buys/rents 10 acres of it from you - he then builds a state of the art mining operation only to find a mineral that is extremely valuable to an emerging market. This mineral is very hard to extract and you would have never had the technology or resources to mine it yourself. But now that this man is making more money from this 10 acres he's developed than you are on your 90 acres - you have the right to take it back from him because the land "belonged to your family for generations"?

Nationalization is nothing more than piracy. You can't prop it up as moral or right because of your ignorance of the potential value of that product.

If you buy a picture at a garage sale for $10 and then find out later it's worth $100,000 - you don't suddenly owe the original owner anything, and they don't have the right to take it back.

reply to post by Rocky Black

We steal nothing. We liberate. Make free.

WOW so big oil interests were not involved in Iraq

"We liberate. Make free" and that is working out so well in Iraq and Afghanistan

The United States started this mess in the middle east back in the 50's.....No wonder everyone they hate us.

Here is a simple answer to the US Iran cold war. US go home and put all the money you spend on War towards defense You could have your airspace and borders closely guarded against incoming missiles. Put satellites in orbit to monitor and even strike hostile objects that threaten national security such as a missile or armed satellite. Allow Iran to develop nuclear technology and promote peaceful relations between Israel and Iran.

Iran, defend all invasion but try as hard as you can to pursue routes of diplomacy with Israel and the United States. Do not block the straight of Hormuz import oil from other sources. Build refineries to produce your own gas.

If only.

Originally posted by Rocky Black

ZNo they want to be able to threaten their neightbors with nuke weapons.

Tha is why there will be a war and we are all gonna die.

The only nation in the world, that is threatening their neighbours ... is the United States. Along with it's allies, Great Britain, France, Russia and China.

The statement, that Uranium needs to be enriched to 90% is of course literally bogus ... just pure crap. The US had no technology to enrich Uranium to 90% prior to WWII. The enrichment of Uranium has never been a requirement, this is merely a hype, produced by the US, to make nations like Iran "suspicious" in the eyes of the public. Any moron can create an a-bomb, with access to the natural minerals. Only the US, Britain, France, Russia and China, have shown the madness to produce these weapons. And of these nations, only the US, has shown the willingness to use these weapons against civilians.

Originally posted by Rocky Black
reply to post by seenavv

 

How about arming #e muslims in IRAQ to attack us troops with Iranian weapons.

How about killing and tortturing your own people. What about that woman Jourrnalist that was held in Evan Prison who was tortured and killed.

Sorry no love here pal.

You reap what you so.

You so hate well expect hate to come right back at you.

Let me ask this question.

If Iran has all the oil and gas reserves and so much money and pipeline and export money.

Why do they need nuklear power.

How about some wind technologies.

ZNo they want to be able to threaten their neightbors with nuke weapons.

Tha is why there will be a war and we are all gonna die.

That is the way it is.

You want ISREAL wiped off the map well we shall all be wiped off the map someday as we are the poison that is inhabiting and destroying this earth buy our drilling deep into the earth crust and sucking all the oil out.

Well how about all the water that is contaminated and all the poision we spew on the earth.

Doesn't matter as when it happens it happens.

reply to post by bjarneorn

The enrichment of Uranium has never been a requirement, this is merely a hype, produced by the US, to make nations like Iran "suspicious" in the eyes of the public. Any moron can create an a-bomb, with access to the natural minerals.

Any sources to substantiate this nonsense? You need at least 20 % to make a practical bomb, with 6 % being the hard physical limit. Natural uranium has 0.7 %.

en.wikipedia.org...

Someone had to say it. I don't think anyone could have said it better.
I don't pick sides. I'm not participating in governmental drama.
For a bunch of old guys the world leaders sure act like children.

Why shouldn't Iran be allowed to make their own nuclear weapons? USA have many, why can anyone else have them too? Iraq supposedly had them, USA went into a country looking for weapons of mass destruction, yet they already had them themselves? Hypicritical or what?

Well said. I am prior U.S. Marine and love America. However, we are the bullies of the world. We force other countries to back us; much like President Bush did by giving other countries ultimatums such as, "Your either with us or against us."

Like many have said, there is no indication that Iran is planning to build nucular wepons. We need to leave other countries alone and fix our problems here.

I am from Iraq, specifically the christian minority in Iraq, more specifically the indigenous people of Iraq. I must say that when America entered Iraq, nobody suffered more than the christian minority. Not the Kurds, not the Muslim Iraqis but the christian minority. As now they were enemies within their own land. Killed for the simple reason that they shared the same "faith" so to speak of the invading Americans. Raped, Murdered, harassed, kidnapped, humiliated and bombed whilst at church saying morning prayers.

It is this minority that is not mentioned, with no voice and absolutely powerless in their own land -Yet hated with such passion.

I fear this will also be the fate of the small minority of Christians in Iran.


I do not see war as religion VS religion it is but government VS government. Everytime George Bush mentioned God, i cringed knowing that the implications of his use of the word God and linking religion to this war put even MORE lives at risk (if that were even possible). In saying this there are many who take on any opportunity to hate and attack others for not sharing their views, this can be said for many different countries. But none so physical in these times as those extremists in middle-eastern countries.

BBoy Iran Im into breaking , and a bboy from Norway went to Iran to check out the BBoy scene in Tehran

check this video for an insight into Iranian BBoy culture