Can your prayer give me/you understanding

Originally posted by drivers1492
After a long conversation with a friend the other day I have been thinking about this particular subject. I am hopeful to get some viewpoints of those who believe in the scriptures.

Various biblical verses regarding prayer seem to show a trend of ask and you shall receive if you truly have faith. With that in mind I am curious why believers don't simply pray for understanding of the scripture. I constant hear that its up to the person to discover the meaning for themselves yet if there is a claim of "I understand the truth about...." its scoffed. I personally enjoy reading the bible and discussing it although I do not believe. I also have no issue admitting I do not understand many things about it. So with that in mind, if you are a true believer and strong in the faith could you not pray that I understood what god or jesus meant in the writings and I would receive knowledge from god as I read? Or, if someone gave you a set of verses they had problems understand could you pray and be absolutely sure that you understand god's message to relay it to them?

I presented this idea to my friend and she refused to do it. I have known her since we were children and I do not doubt her conviction to her faith in god so I was confused and she really didn't give a reason for why she wouldn't. So I am posing the question here to get your thoughts. Would you be comfortable telling someone that you KNOW without doubt god gave you understanding so you could answer their questions and KNOW you were speaking the truth from god/jesus. Or would you always add the "well i believe" to the explanation?

examples of the whole ask and receive msg

Matthew 7:7 ”Ask, and it will be given to you seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Matthew 21:22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”
Mark 9:29 And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer.”
Mark 11:24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
John 14:13-14 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it

I look forward to your thoughts and of course if you believe its all bunk/no god/blah blah blah thanks but that has no bearing on the thread.

Sometimes we do pray for understanding when we have need or are confused. The New Testament is a christians guide on how to live in Christ. It's an instruction manual on how we treat certain situations and react to them and it is also the beginning of the history of Christianity, from when we diverged from Judaism. All people could learn from the new testament if they could stop the hating. When you give yourself to Jesus his Holy Spirit dwells in you and the understanding of the scriptures comes with it as his laws get engraved on your heart. I would have no problems telling someone i knew what a certain scripture meant

Those versus of "ask and you shall recieve" have alot to do with using our gifts the Holy Spirit gives us to help other people, be it miracle healing, or a kind word or a show of compassion when someone is down. Jesus said where 2 or 3 (or more) of us are gathered he will be there and anything we ask of him he will do for the glory of the Father. We all have our place in this continual story God is constantly writing, we all have our roles to fulfill and the bible helps us figure out our place. We only use the Old Testement as a verification of the New. Both books verify eachother.

I hope this gives you some insight.

Cheers.

reply to post by WarminIndy

Yes, there are those who pray and answers come right away, but sometimes it takes time

Exactly. Most people think God will answer them when they want him to but that's not how he works. He doesn't always give you what you want, but he gives you what you need and he does often do things in his own time and not when we want. Case in point was Abraham and Sarah. Sarah wanted a child but she was sterile/infertile. God said he would give her a child but he didn't say when. Sarah grew impatient and had Abraham bed her servant girl Ha'gar and they had Ishamael and then about a dozen years later God gives Sarah the child she asked for, but her impatience ruined His plan and so he had to work around her impatience. needless to say this whole war between the Israeli's and Arabs (muslims) of today are a direct result of Sarah messing with God's plan.

Now Jesus on the otherhand said anything we ask in his name he shall do it for the glory of the Father and he didn't put stipulations on what "anything was", although more often than not people are selfish and ask for material things when were supposed to be casting that off and this comes from their spiritual ignorance and from not reading the word and learning about the Messiah and who he is and what his will for us is.

I hope this helps the OP and doesn't confuse him/her more, but yeah, sometimes we don't get what we want when we want it, but when we need it most. I don't pray for selfish things but when i do pray i always try to keep others in mind.

Originally posted by drivers1492

Matthew 7:7 ”Ask, and it will be given to you seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Matthew 21:22 And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”
Mark 9:29 And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer.”
Mark 11:24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
John 14:13-14 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it

These are some of the most misquoted and abused passages in the whole bible. It is these passages that have made way for prosperity churches. These churches teach the most perverted word that I have ever heard.

Here are some verses that you need to understand what Jesus is saying about prayer.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

James 1:5-7 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;

John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.

1 John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked

You simply cannot pull verses out and expect any kind of answer. One must be aware of the context of the entire scripture, in order to understand the concepts in the bible.

By the verses above I have shown you that unless you have faith in God, and have repented from your sins, God simply will not answer your prayer. My mom says it this way; this is meant to be a little humorous. God is not Santa Clause. You must go to God for him to come to you. You must repent and have faith in him. You must understand the will of the father.

I am going to share with you a piece of the truth. If you know love and seek love than the following statement is true. The word of God is in you, the word became flesh, and the flesh is the Son, Christ Jesus. So you are the temple of Christ, what you probably have not received is the Holy Spirit. The word, which is Jesus, lives in all who have love.

The Holy Spirit is a gift given to you when you repent and believe, believe is an action not a thought. Nail your will to the cross and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you, in this way you will be doing the will of your father. This is the action of believing. Submit your will to the father; he knows best you can trust him. Actually you should stop trusting yourself and trust only in him.

If this sounds complicated, or even a little different than what you were taught, I suggest starting with this prayer. Believe that this is the prayer God wants you to pray and expect that God will come through. By saying this prayer and expecting God to answer you, you have taken the first step to him.

Matthew 6:9-13 Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

I pray that you have the courage to have faith in the God that somehow you know is real. I pray that you forget everything the church told you about scripture so that you may allow the Holy Spirit to interpret for you. I pray that you may come to know your father, through his son and the Holy Spirit that is promised to all believers. I pray this in the name of the son Jesus Christ.

Thank you all for replies. I do see a few that seem to be comfortable saying they will be correct in their interpretation of scripture when asked which is great.

So from what has been shared if I do not believe then my prayer will go unanswered which is fine. That isn't what I am asking. And apparently from the quote of James 1 we should not expect to be given anything from our prayers.

Sacgamer25, the verses I quoted were not simply pulled out of context as they all do not specify a particular situation. I find it odd that the argument comes up that he was speaking only for the apostles. Just to give example the matt 7 verse reading back when he starts speaking it isn't clear if he speaking to just the group or the multitude following him at the time. I suppose you can read it either way.

Brokedown, i do see what your saying about reading and learning by yourself. But, the question still remains. Can you gain the understanding to share with others and be sure that it is truly god's message. You seem comfortable to some degree that you can yet your response seems to say that you can't or don't have a complete understanding. My question would be why not? Did god tell you no you can't understand it all?

HeFrippedMeOff and Akragon, sure I have specific scripture I have issue with. But this thread is not the place for that. If I asked for specifics I think it would turn into a more of who's right thread which I want to avoid.

Akragon, if you honestly believed that you understood the scripture and that knowledge or wisdom was from god then there should have been no reason for this statement

And many times people disagree with what i say, but i maintain what i know until someone can show me otherwise...

since there would be no way to be shown wrong.

I see a general consensus that you only get what is best for you when praying which makes sense. Since spreading god's word is something that would be considered good it would seem that a prayer to help someone understand would be a good thing. Yes, I do understand the underlying message that we can't understand god or his plan so he might say no because of this.

I have been to many, many different churches over the years. I just want to say that none of them taught the bible correctly for one simple reason. They did not teach from the whole bible. I do look forward to your replies.

reply to post by drivers1492

Thank you all for replies. I do see a few that seem to be comfortable saying they will be correct in their interpretation of scripture when asked which is great.

Right now I am looking at and trying to actually read, a book I recently got in the mail that I ordered from Amazon, "Isaiah's New Exodus in Mark (Biblical Studies Library)" by Rikki E. Watts. You can do a lot of work just trying to understand the first two verses of the Gospel of Mark. Are they one complete thought, or does the fist verse only introduce a passage beginning with verse 2? Why does he say that this is according to Isaiah and not actually quote Isaiah in this passage? What exactly was he quoting and why? Does it help to understand what the theme is of what he is talking about if we look at those fragments that do make it into the introduction?
My point is that the Bible is not as straightforward of a thing as might be imagined, and is actually very complex and I think it is helpful to try to understand the truth that the writer was trying to get across, to study it with the help of people who devote their lives to figuring these kinds of things out so we can save ourselves from having to do all that. If nothing else, it will make you stop and think for a second as you read a passage like that instead of just skimming over it as if it was of no consequence and just so much filler.

Originally posted by drivers1492

Sacgamer25, the verses I quoted were not simply pulled out of context as they all do not specify a particular situation. I find it odd that the argument comes up that he was speaking only for the apostles. Just to give example the matt 7 verse reading back when he starts speaking it isn't clear if he speaking to just the group or the multitude following him at the time. I suppose you can read it either way.

I am not implying that he was speaking to just the apostles. The words of the bible apply to everyone. What I was saying about context is the bible tells you what prayers God will answer. If I pray for a million dollars I am afraid that it’s not likely that I will get that.

If I pray for understanding of the bible, if I have faith that God wants me to understand, then I will get understanding. We can only pray for things that are the will of the father. The reason I recommend to you to say the Lord ’s Prayer was because it is simple and you are asking for God to be in your life. If you believe in God but aren’t sure what you mean by that pray that he builds up your faith. You see, pray for things that you think God wants you to have and have faith that you will receive them.

Abraham had faith that God was going to give him descendants through Isaac just as he promised. So when God said sacrifice your son his faith in what God was saying allowed him to recon that God could resurrect Isaac. So by faith he followed the command of God.

God is not asking you to have this kind of faith. He is simply asking that you have faith that he is real and that, Jesus was his son. If you can have faith in these two things then you only need to believe that he will do what he promises in the bible.

He promises to interpret scripture for you by the power of the Holy Spirit. Stop doubting and have faith.
He promises you a baptism of the Holy Spirit that will fill you with Joy and knowledge, stop doubting and have faith.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Then I can assume from your post that you praying for said understanding to share with someone else would easily be considered something that would be the will of the father correct? I say that since it is his desire we all come to know and accept. As far as simply me having faith, I don't. It's clear to me that for me to believe I need something more that I don't have so I remain on a more atheistic view of things.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I understand what your your saying but my question concerning all of this is directed at prayer and understanding.
I will take a peek at the book though thank you.

Originally posted by drivers1492
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Then I can assume from your post that you praying for said understanding to share with someone else would easily be considered something that would be the will of the father correct? I say that since it is his desire we all come to know and accept. As far as simply me having faith, I don't. It's clear to me that for me to believe I need something more that I don't have so I remain on a more atheistic view of things.

Then I will pray that God reveals himself to you. Because without faith it will be impossible for you to understand everything in the bible. What I would recommend to someone without faith who reads the bible is believe everything that you read up to Acts in the New Testament. But after that except that you will not likely fully understand the rest of the books and letters in the New Testament.

I will however be happy to help you interpret anything you have a question on. And I fully believe that the Holy Spirit has interpreted scripture for me.

reply to post by drivers1492

OK I was responding to where it looked like the thread ended up, having to do with understanding being applied to the idea of understanding scripture.
I figured that aspect, of praying was already covered so I was adding my perspective that there is a mental aspect to this sort of pursuit and it involves a physically exhausting sort of work which is purely of a nature we would normally consider as non-physical, which is thinking. Learning is doing something you are not used to doing already, so to actually learn something you have to create new pathways in your brain and this idea comes into play which is normally applied to exercise, 'no pain, no gain' and you have to think until it hurts, then you find out later that now you know something you didn't before. The point is that there is no painless way to gaining understanding, and maybe a prayer would result in time opening up to where you can do some study uninterrupted, or you find out about a book or you hear something which inspires you to think along a certain direction. This sort of thing happens all the time to me and I see it as my prayers answered, and I do not expect some sort of magical knowing that comes out of nowhere, though that can happen but in very small increments and hardly ever, as in maybe once in your lifetime.
As for that book, I was using it as an example because it is what I am studying right now. It is challenging reading and not something you just read along like a story book, but you go a couple words and stop and try to figure out what it is, or you stop and look it up, or there is a footnote you want to read, or you want to follow one to the bibliography and see if you can look up that book and find out more about an author the writer is quoting or referring to.