Fluoride Linked to #1 Cause of Death in New Research

@NeoVain

Yet another tinfoil hat website. I can acknowledge that fluoride in high doses can cause damage, though, too much of anything is bad. A small dose of something can on the other hand, become beneficial. The site that you quote fails to hit the nail on the head with fluoride, they source scientific data stating the damages of fluoride yet many of the sources are expressing the potential issues of fluoride at high doses. A lot of the sources in said site are misleading and taken out of context. They are merely quotes extracted from research papers.

Nice try though.

reply to post by TheComte


I do not drink alcohol but I'd be glad to smoke my favourite strain as long as I can while you do that

reply to post by ashpool


I am sorry but that is no tinfoil hat website at all. They are funded, run and supported by over 30.000 legitimate medical professionals that are trying to get the message out. You might want to check out their Advisory Board on this page: www.fluoridealert.org...

Alot of DR, MD, Ph.D on there as you can see.

Also

In May of 2004, FAN became an official project of the American Environmental Health Studies Project (AEHSP) - a registered non-profit (501c3) organization.

Also NO AMOUNT of SODIUM flouride is beneficial to you. That is a myth. That is what is put in your water. Calcium flouride is what might be beneficial to you, and what appears naturally in water. And then again, only to topical application to the teeth.

www.prisonplanet.com... (too Tin Foil for you?)
How about this then www.fluoridealert.org...

reply to post by ashpool


That most definitely is a tin foil hat website.

Also known as quacks.

good thing i have a filter on my tap

Originally posted by ashpool
@MagnumOpus

You are not for real are you? Listening a document sourced to another conspiracy website? That just completely voided the legitmacey of your so called "evidence". After I spent some time researching this "Charles E. Perkins" I've found that the only indexed websites that quote this name are other conspiracy websites, and to no surprise, they only mention this letter. Nothing else. No sources, no other information about this "chemist", absolutely nothing. I'm even on the thought that this "Perkins" never existed, and this "letter" was a fraudulent document to stir up the fluoride conspiracy.

The tinfoil hat wearers in this thread have given me quite the laugh, seriously find some legitimate sources that actually provide evidence, and I mean solid. Not these hilarious conspiracy tinfoil websites.

I've lurked on ATS for quite some time, and there are a lot of very interesting articles and pictures (UFO/aliens are particularly a section that excels). But the majority of users are a joke.

=====

I have one of Charles Perkins books, which is out of print these days. He talks about the item to which this letter was a reply about in the book. He covers lots of the history of fluoridation. Perkins existed.

I do think the problem is you can't do Internet searches and come up with the data. Try the library. imho

Tons of web sites carry the same Perkins quote. And lots more, as Perkins was pretty much an anti-fluoride person from day one. He was considered an expert on fluorides and did research in that area of chemistry.


Perhaps you need to check the amount of aluminum resident in your brain, as Perkins was the real deal. imho

Originally posted by ashpool
@NeoVain

Yet another tinfoil hat website. I can acknowledge that fluoride in high doses can cause damage, though, too much of anything is bad. A small dose of something can on the other hand, become beneficial. The site that you quote fails to hit the nail on the head with fluoride, they source scientific data stating the damages of fluoride yet many of the sources are expressing the potential issues of fluoride at high doses. A lot of the sources in said site are misleading and taken out of context. They are merely quotes extracted from research papers.

Nice try though.

edit on 18-1-2012 by ashpool because: (no reason given)

If you read that book by Charles Perkins, he has a lot to say about folks that use the DOSE term with a highly retained chemical element that concentrates in various organs of the body. Since you haven't read that and can't seem to find the author, I doubt you can comment with any accuracy on the science of fluoride in the human body.

Using the term dose to mean it is protective of being overdosed in various organs of the body is misleading. imho

Obviously, the science shows that fluorides accumulate in the Pineal Gland to high concentrations, and that dose rule didn't apply there.

If one studies the fluoride concentrations in the bone mass one also finds lots there, and in both cases it got there by the fluoride's ability to concentrate in the various organ bodies due to calcium affinity.


Persons using the term dose together with compounds that concentrate in the body don't understand the process of fluoride at all, nor the term dose. All the games of using the term dose only applies to things that have short residence time in the body and are shed from the body. Ones that build up with time from low level exposures can't be handled with dose criteria.

Else, everyone would have less than 1 ppm in the Pineal Gland and less than 1 ppm in the bone mass. We know that doesn't happen.

People who do wear tin foil hats use this dose term with fluorides to mislead the public into thinking there is no way for the material to concentrate in the human body, but we know it does from many many studies of various organs. imho

@MagnumOpus

Cool bro.

How about you scan a few pages and link it in this thread so we can read more about Mr Perkins.

Now everyone else who is a paranoid about fluoride, see if you can find some news links or studies where someone who has gotten ill/cancer/poisoning with a direct link attributed to fluoride. Show me a case study that shows a direct link eg: "this person has died due to fluoride intake".

There has been no direct proof what so ever.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Ok so lets talk some science (most dentists, including myself, majored in biochemistry/biology etc). I didn't want to get into this but here it is:

When you drink Fl, it's rapidly absorbed by your intestine, then your teeth/bones absorb some, and then it is quickly excreted via urine. Your plasma Fl levels rapidly decline following intake - the plasma half life is 4-10hrs. If Fl is taken with food, especially those containing metal ions, like calcium magnesium or aluminum, Fl uptake is REDUCED by up to 60%...in other words your poop it out. Fl wants to be in mineralized tissue - like your bones/teeth.

Now lets talk poisoning someone...about 10mg/kg of Fl is lethal. It does this by a) forming HFL acid which is very strong, B) it can bind to Ca ions, making the person suffer hypocalcemia (and thus the associated muscle SNAFUs), and it can also C) affect enzymatic systems in high doses. One major issue is in high doses it can inhibit acetylcholinesterase (something that breaks down a neurotransmitter), causing hypersalivation, nausea, vomiting, and even cardiac failure (death).

How much Fl is in your drinking water? About .7-1.3 PPM. So 1 L of Fl water has about 1mg of Fl....so if you weigh 80kg, you would have to drink 800L of water to die from the Fl...within that 4-10 hour window before your body would clear it. Of course the toxic dose is far less than the lethal dose...about 5mg/kg, so you would have to drink just 400L of water in that 4-10 hour window to start feeling sick. Now toothpastes, mouthwashes, professional dental Fl has much much higher doses, however you would have to chow down on a few tubes of crest to feel any Fl associated effects.

Remember, toxicity is related to the dose of a substance and not just being exposed to it. Cl, vitamin D, NaCl, iodine, antibiotics, and even water are all harmful in the wrong amounts, but beneficial in the correct amounts.

Dentists are doctors that specialize in the head and neck, obviously our training focuses in this area. Our initial curriculum is the same as the medical school curriculum (some schools actually combined the med/dent classes in the first 2 years, same class, same test, etc). We still do full cadaver dissections, we still work in hospitals, basically, we know what's going on in the patient's body. Many systemic diseases snow their first signs in the oral cavity - dentists are often the first to diagnose various cancers, diabetes, even HIV sometimes (kaposi sarcoma). Please don't assume just because we're 'just' dentists, we don't know what's going on with the rest of the body.

reply to post by ashpool


you, my friend, are a conspiracy snip

the use of water fluoridation for mass mind control @ rense
www.rense.com...

the truth about fluoride
www.greaterthings.com...

use of sodium fluoride for mass behavior control in nazi germany
members.iimetro.com.au...

Here's a reason to support a Florida county's decision to cut fluoride out of its drinking water: The idea came from the Nazis.

The Nazis put fluoride in water to pacify Jews during World War II, a local resident told members of the Pinellas County Commission on Oct. 4, 2011, before the commission voted 4-3 vote to stop fluoridating water for about 700,000 residents.

"History shows, actually, that in Nazi Germany, one of the first things that they did was add fluoride to the water in the ghettos where the Jews stayed," Matt Leffler of Clearwater said.

look up Project Paperclip, after WW2 the U.S. took in ALL of the Nazi scientists and high ranking military and injected them into our own government positions.

no wonder our country looks like Nazi germany today....we ARE nazi germany's descendants

only the bottom feeders believe what the government says about ANYTHING..







Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

reply to post by DocAdama


So you are a dentist and you are on the camp that supports flouride use. Well thats fine, alot of others apparently are too. If this is due to ignorance or "persuasion" by lobbyists from the industries can be hard to tell though.. Here are a few that eventually understood it´s dangers though, and decided to go on the record.







Found something you disagree with here from these dentists? I would love to hear it.

reply to post by NeoVain


I watched a couple of the vids, I'm not sure what their sources are but I can say with 100% certainty that Fl helps prevent caries. Would I give an infant Fl water? No. I would be very careful, the smaller a child is, the bigger the risk. Even when using Lidocaine on a child, I take into consideration their weight

It's all about risk vs reward. I can say 100% Fl will help prevent cavities. In someone with great oral hygiene, Fl may not be a big deal, but in the inner city where a lot of people have no idea how to take care of their mouths, it's much needed. I had a kid in my office 2 weeks ago, 14 years old, who has no bottom front teeth - all rotted out. If there wasn't Fl in his water, there's a good chance he'd need ALL his teeth replaced (dentures?) by his 18th birthday. I'm also willing to bet now that I got him out of pain, his mom probably won't bring him back until he gets another toothache. It's this kind of population that Fl is of the greatest benefit to. I have seen 0 credible evidence that would say that any Fl associated risk outweighs the reward.

If I was a better business-man, I would tell my patients to avoid Fl...I can charge a heck of a lot more for a crown than I can for a regular filling.

Originally posted by metalshredmetal
reply to post by ashpool

 

you, my friend, are a conspiracy snip

the use of water fluoridation for mass mind control @ rense
www.rense.com...

the truth about fluoride
www.greaterthings.com...

use of sodium fluoride for mass behavior control in nazi germany
members.iimetro.com.au...

Here's a reason to support a Florida county's decision to cut fluoride out of its drinking water: The idea came from the Nazis.

The Nazis put fluoride in water to pacify Jews during World War II, a local resident told members of the Pinellas County Commission on Oct. 4, 2011, before the commission voted 4-3 vote to stop fluoridating water for about 700,000 residents.

"History shows, actually, that in Nazi Germany, one of the first things that they did was add fluoride to the water in the ghettos where the Jews stayed," Matt Leffler of Clearwater said.

look up Project Paperclip, after WW2 the U.S. took in ALL of the Nazi scientists and high ranking military and injected them into our own government positions.

no wonder our country looks like Nazi germany today....we ARE nazi germany's descendants

only the bottom feeders believe what the government says about ANYTHING..

Too much of anything can be fatal. The Nazi's were wrong about many things and their leader (Hitler) took the wrong path with Amphetamines and Cocaine (See: Pervitin). My belief is that these drugs took a brain already prone to psychosis and accelerated it. Sure hitler can take a shot and come out (early on) delivering a fire breathing speech but all the while the drugs were biding their time and led to his downfall. These drugs are very strange in that they produce the opposite effect over time. Alcohol is somewhat similar, the happy drunk becomes nasty.

Just saying I sure would not look to those early tests or that they MAY have used fluoride for nefarious purposes. We dont know the amounts used but yeah, basically meaningless. Sure you get the sensationalist points but nothing to write home about.

In the right amounts fluoride is, most likely, beneficial. Like i said you can die from just drinking water (water intoxication - chemistry.about.com... ) and people have, but i dont think there deaths were attributed to the fluoride at all.

reply to post by DocAdama

I watched a couple of the vids, I'm not sure what their sources are but I can say with 100% certainty that Fl helps prevent caries.

I guess you missed the 2nd vid then, please watch it again, as he states all his sources at the end. There is no proof that flouride in the water supply helps prevent caries, the charts are all there, the cited articles, comparisons between countries with/without flouride in their water supply, even U.S states. I am sorry that you have bought into the myth like they want you too, but eventually, if you do your research, you too will find out the truth. Please do it as soon as possible before you poison any more people.

reply to post by metalshredmetal


snip

Those websites you have linked, are other tinfoil sites, where their credibility is an absolute joke.
I've been reading conspiracies for years, out of pure interest. Some make sense, yet 99% of them are of comedic value. A common example of ATS summed up in a nutshell is "Reptilian stole the wrist watch in my mind". And people are quick to believe this said crap and jump to conclusions when linked to a bunch of other conspiracy nut job websites claimed to be a "source" of information, when it has none.

ATS is an interesting site, but a lot of the users make me lol.

I guess you missed the 2nd vid then, please watch it again, as he states all his sources at the end. There is no proof that flouride in the water supply helps prevent caries, the charts are all there, the cited articles, comparisons between countries with/without flouride in their water supply, even U.S states. I am sorry that you have bought into the myth like they want you too, but eventually, if you do your research, you too will find out the truth. Please do it as soon as possible before you poison any more people.

In Australia we have a saying, "You're a few sausages short of a barbecue". I'll leave it to you to Google.








Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

Originally posted by DocAdama
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Ok so lets talk some science (most dentists, including myself, majored in biochemistry/biology etc). I didn't want to get into this but here it is:

When you drink Fl, it's rapidly absorbed by your intestine, then your teeth/bones absorb some, and then it is quickly excreted via urine. Your plasma Fl levels rapidly decline following intake - the plasma half life is 4-10hrs. If Fl is taken with food, especially those containing metal ions, like calcium magnesium or aluminum, Fl uptake is REDUCED by up to 60%...in other words your poop it out. Fl wants to be in mineralized tissue - like your bones/teeth.

Now lets talk poisoning someone...about 10mg/kg of Fl is lethal. It does this by a) forming HFL acid which is very strong, B) it can bind to Ca ions, making the person suffer hypocalcemia (and thus the associated muscle SNAFUs), and it can also C) affect enzymatic systems in high doses. One major issue is in high doses it can inhibit acetylcholinesterase (something that breaks down a neurotransmitter), causing hypersalivation, nausea, vomiting, and even cardiac failure (death).

How much Fl is in your drinking water? About .7-1.3 PPM. So 1 L of Fl water has about 1mg of Fl....so if you weigh 80kg, you would have to drink 800L of water to die from the Fl...within that 4-10 hour window before your body would clear it. Of course the toxic dose is far less than the lethal dose...about 5mg/kg, so you would have to drink just 400L of water in that 4-10 hour window to start feeling sick. Now toothpastes, mouthwashes, professional dental Fl has much much higher doses, however you would have to chow down on a few tubes of crest to feel any Fl associated effects.

Remember, toxicity is related to the dose of a substance and not just being exposed to it. Cl, vitamin D, NaCl, iodine, antibiotics, and even water are all harmful in the wrong amounts, but beneficial in the correct amounts.

Dentists are doctors that specialize in the head and neck, obviously our training focuses in this area. Our initial curriculum is the same as the medical school curriculum (some schools actually combined the med/dent classes in the first 2 years, same class, same test, etc). We still do full cadaver dissections, we still work in hospitals, basically, we know what's going on in the patient's body. Many systemic diseases snow their first signs in the oral cavity - dentists are often the first to diagnose various cancers, diabetes, even HIV sometimes (kaposi sarcoma). Please don't assume just because we're 'just' dentists, we don't know what's going on with the rest of the body.

edit on 18-1-2012 by DocAdama because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-1-2012 by DocAdama because: (no reason given)

====

Since you wanted to get into science, I have to say that Dentists don't make very good researchers, nor can they appear to used the accepted scientific chemical nomenclature. The chemical sign for fluorine is F, the chemical sign for hydrogen fluoride is HF. Dentests generally can't do research in this area, and I've yet to meet one that knows the true issues of what happens to fluoride in the body. You are no exception. imho

Lets cut to the real deal on fluoride retention, as real studies toss in a measured amount of a fluoride compound by some fashion, like ingestion or injection, and then look at the excretion rates and amounts. There are lots of studies these days with F-18 tracers, as this study used here. All the studies that I've read speak to retained amounts of fluoride that are not excreted. They also look at the blood concentrations, which doesn't have much to do with the retention amounts. Obviously this study here speaks to fluoride stuck in the walls of arteries.

Now real science research folks use the research NIH "PubMed" search engine and pull up the fluorine compound related studies, and I've read thousands of those on fluorides. You left off the retention of fluorides in the body, as what goes in the body never matches what came out due to retention. Bones with calcium store fluorine, Pineal Glands with calcium store fluorine, other tissues with calcium pick up lesser amounts of stored fluorine. Even blood vessels store some fluorine compound. Fluoride interferes with thyroid process and even forms AlFx compounds that mess up thyroid hormone process.

So, allow me to recommend the PubMed search engine and do read the studies on fluoride, sodium fluoride, calcium fluoride, hydrogen fluoride. Also, keep in mind that the high acid environment of stomach makes considerable HF, which has extreme retention in calcium related organs.

Then you all can decide if Dentists are any good at chemical symbols, let alone the studies of fluoride research.


When one looks at this entire fluoridation mess, it was pushed by Dentists connected to ALCOA and their business partners of IG Farben in Germany. ALCOA pushed to get control of public health via Oscar Ewing and that pushed in the IG Farben plan for mass fluoridation of the US. In this entire bogus science process for fluoridation, they never looked at the retained internalization of fluoride compounds and affinity toward calcium organs.

And that is a key part, and like the ALCOA good ole boy dentists you also left off this key part for internalization of fluorine in the body. imho

Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by DocAdama

 

I watched a couple of the vids, I'm not sure what their sources are but I can say with 100% certainty that Fl helps prevent caries.

I guess you missed the 2nd vid then, please watch it again, as he states all his sources at the end. There is no proof that flouride in the water supply helps prevent caries, the charts are all there, the cited articles, comparisons between countries with/without flouride in their water supply, even U.S states. I am sorry that you have bought into the myth like they want you too, but eventually, if you do your research, you too will find out the truth. Please do it as soon as possible before you poison any more people.

Fluoride served its purpose early on. Poorer people with bad diets teeth would rot out by their thirties and forties. Look it up, it is true. But then in those days thirty and forty years old and you had one foot on the banana peel so yah, same scientists adding fluoride to water increased life expectancies with drugs and medical research. Well...what can I say?

It is long overdue for the deadly effects of fluoride to be completely exposed. Now due to their recent admissions it can easily be correlated to the number 1 and number 2 leading causes of death, as manslaughter is no longer #1
Now:G

Number 1 is Cardiac disease...fluoride...



Number 2 is Cancer...and seems the actual data will support this as well as a host of other diseases



About time they stop dumping industrial waste into all water bodies and all the land sites contaminated with it...as it accumulates and likely produces biological magnification as it goes through the food chain. Disgusting

Fluoride what better way to dumb down the global consciousness. Maybe they can slow down the process, but they can't stop the inevitable! See my shiny teeth. To bad I have a IQ of 60. The hell with that, I would gladly rip my own rotting teeth out with a pair of pliers.