Chomsky destroys Ron Paul, page 3
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reply posted on 14-2-2012 @ 03:22 PM by captainnotsoobvious
More Chomsky on US Libertarianism and specifically Ron Paul:

Q: At times, you've been outspoken against the Libertarian Party and its ideals. Recently, libertarians such as Ron Paul have courted marijuana users on the basis that they oppose the Drug War. Why do you oppose them?

A: What's called libertarianism in the United States is a significant deviation from traditional libertarian thought. Traditionally, say in Europe, "libertarian" meant the anti-state wing of the socialist party. In the United States, "libertarian" means ultra-capitalist; it means permitting capitalist institutions to function essentially without constraint, or virtually with no constraint. That's a recipe for one of the worst kinds of tyranny that exists: unaccountable corporate tyranny. Take a look at individual libertarians -- say Ron Paul. He may be perfectly sincere, but as I read his programs and other programs of the Libertarian Party or the Cato Institute and so on, they essentially would give free rein to unaccountable concentrations of private power. And that's about the worst kind of tyranny you can imagine. Whatever government is -- say our government -- it's to some extent accountable to the public, and the public can compel it to be fairly accountable, at least in principle. That's why we have things like New Deal reforms and so on: It's public pressure. On the other hand, you and I can say nothing about the policies of Goldman Sachs or General Electric. In principle, our only relationship to those institutions is to consume what they produce or to serve them as an obedient work force. We can maybe own some shares, but that's meaningless given the concentration of shareholding. So they're essentially unaccountable to the public except through a regulatory apparatus that can be developed through the state in our society, which can somewhat tame the excesses and destructive capacities of these institutions.


www.chomsky.info...


reply posted on 17-2-2012 @ 02:53 PM by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by ipsedixit



Nothing like shooting the messenger when you can't argue with the message.

I don't always agree with Chomsky's conclusions, but his head for history is pretty undeniable.

There's nothing in any of these Chomsky stuff on Libertarians that their own website doesn't at least imply. And, as I keep finding out, a lot of Libertarians believe this stuff (e.g. the constitution says free elementary education is anti-American).

For every connection Chomsky makes that is basically just a well informed opinion he offers 10 good history lessons for people that take rhetoric as history and the media at face value.


reply posted on 18-2-2012 @ 05:22 AM by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by ipsedixit



I think you've gotten a bit to close to this.

Chomsky is a linguist and a historian and a political mouthpiece for his ideology. He's not a policeman.

That being said he DOES talk about justice all the time and call out criminals, as he sees it.

His view that 9/11 wasn't an inside job isn't deplorable. That's the common view (and the only one with real evidence in my, and any many millions of other "not idiots," opinion).

Your argument is the equivalent of saying, "Chris Hitchens was wrong about atheism, because he supported the Iraq war". You may disagree with the conclusions Chomsky has reached, but all the other hyperbolic name-calling is really a reflection of you. Not him.

And as has been pointed out, his view of Libertarianism is accurate. The rest of he debate is simply, "is that accurate information affect in any way by the nature of the person relating it?"

I think it's intellectually dishonest to say it is.

Separate fact from your beliefs.

Finally, just to underline this, there is NO danger is someone's analysis never leading to action. That's a lie. Maybe you misspoke, but if you think the point of knowledge is action you are wrong.
edit on 18-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 19-2-2012 @ 04:10 PM by ipsedixit
Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
Finally, just to underline this, there is NO danger is someone's analysis never leading to action. That's a lie. Maybe you misspoke, but if you think the point of knowledge is action you are wrong.


I disagree with that, particularly when it comes to political analysis. Just the fact that you would defend the "ivory tower intellectualism" of someone like Chomsky, particularly at this point in history is a measure of the effectiveness of this man's poison.

I don't think young people should be exposed to him, personally. A lecture by Chomsky of the later period, given to young people is, in my opinion, the intellectual equivalent of giving a garden a light dusting of agent orange. It will stunt the growth and lead to intellectual atrophy.

I am not an academic and can't really assess him as a historian would, but based on what reading I have done, Chomsky, it seems to me, has been infected with the viewpoint A.J.P. Taylor expressed in his The Origins of the Second World War, that nations are like beings with their own behavior patterns and psychology that individuals have very little power to change or direct.

Of course there is validity to this point of view. It may be futile to try to seize control of the wheel of a runaway bus if one is just a passenger, but surely it is even more futile and foolish not to try.

Chomsky is a passenger on the bus with only an academic interest in what the driver is doing. It disturbs me to think that many young people seem to think that that is a perfectly acceptable attitude to take.

Intellectual distance is a cop out. One that has been responsible for untold amounts of suffering in the world.

Chomsky is poison.
edit on 19-2-2012 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 19-2-2012 @ 05:01 PM by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by ipsedixit



That's all wildly hyperbolic.

Knowledge gives people options that ignorance does not.

Claiming that with his knowledge his reaction, which you disagree with, undermines the knowledge itself and further still, that his inaction makes him poison, is just really silly.

You may chose to do something different than he does, with the same information, but judging him so severely, based on your opinion of his inaction, in this situation, is absurd to the extreme.

There's a lot of people that have taken his knowledge and used it as a way into a more honest understand of the world, for instance. Your desire to... what... have him be silent?... would potentially prevent a lot of people from learning a lot of useful information.

Surely that alone undermines your extreme reaction.

And btw: intellectual distance in NOT a cop out. He doesn't really possess it; he acts by speaking and spreading information. It's not a cop out though.
edit on 19-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 19-2-2012 @ 06:21 PM by ipsedixit
reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


As far as I am concerned, going to a lecture by Chomsky is roughly the equivalent of going to an opium den.

His hold on university students just amazes me and makes me shudder.


reply posted on 19-2-2012 @ 08:36 PM by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by ipsedixit



Not unlike Ron Paul's hold on ATS posters. It's kinda funny to see one attack the other.

ETA: I do agree with what you say about Chomsky's views on 9/11 and JFK. I started reading less of his stuff when I discovered that.
edit on 19-2-2012 by InvisibleAlbatross because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 20-2-2012 @ 03:28 AM by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by ipsedixit



Again, I think that's so far beyond reasonable as to be nonsense.

Yeah, he has a lot of fans, but that's because few people are saying what he's saying as publicly and because he's been saying this stuff for years and years...

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.

For real though, your aversion is irrational.

You can disagree with him factually, or disagree with his analysis, but to take such an extreme position on him because he doesn't do what you do:

- change the world with his actions
- reject all knowledge that doesn't lead to action
- avoid sharing info unless you're sure your audience will act on it

...is, IMO, irrational. He's just not as awesome as you are.
edit on 20-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)
edit on 20-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)




reply posted on 21-2-2012 @ 01:59 AM by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by ipsedixit



Paranoid much?

It's obvious to me that the Paul folks have no response to Chomsky's comments and history lesson other than an attack on Chomsky.

Which is funny cause they all dragged him out when he said he agreed with something Paul said.

Chomsky, great when he agrees with Paul, dangerous and corrupt when he doesn't.

Interesting.
edit on 21-2-2012 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)

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