Again, the ANTI AMERICAN authors DONT GET IT.

No, you may not be JEALOUS of our freedom, our right to do as we choose. You may be completely satisfied in your socialist or communist society. What you fail to see is if we're wrong and we fall apart because of our own arrogance...then where will that leave you? Where will that leave the ones who, when they face maniacs like Saddam, Hitler, The Taliban, Al Qaeda, and the list goes on...where will you be? You'll be wishing the U.S. was there to bail you out. History has shown this to be true over and over.
Where would Europe be without U.S. intervention? When push comes to shove, if the U.S. wasnt around, you'd be spit shining Hitler boots or having your women raped by Muslim radicals.
And for those people who claim to be American and point to loses like Vietnam and Korea...its the poisoning of our society by socialistic appeasers that caused those failures. America doesnt yet have the stomach to kill or be killed. But times are changing and many of you who continue to doubt our strength and determination...LET A SLEEPING DOG LIE. I see a day when we stop being so concerned about people like you who should be grateful that you have the freedom to write your rhetoric.

Imagine a world without the United States as the global leader. Even short of the imaginative and intelligent scenario of chaos that British historian Niall Ferguson outlined in this magazine (see “A World Without Power,” July/August 2004), it would certainly look grim. There are many issues on which the United States is the crucial organizer of collective goods. Someone has to be concerned about terrorism and nuclear and biological proliferation. Other countries might bristle at certain U.S. policies, but would someone else really be willing to bully, threaten, cajole, and bribe countries such as Libya to renounce terror and dismantle their WMD programs? On terror, trade, AIDs, nuclear proliferation, U.N. reform, and foreign aid, U.S. leadership is indispensable.

This whole thread has been nothing but bashing, and no one has taken the time to try and see the other side's point of view.

I am un-supportive of America acting as a global leader that seems to push people around, but when I read this part of the article, I stopped to think about what the world would be like with out the U.S. Now I'm not as critical and quick to judge when it comes to looking at the U.S.' foriegn policy.

what about the 2 goon leaders of the chechyna rebels - 1 was given asylum in USA 5 weeks ago (before the beslan kill) . the other operates out of UK.

USA why are you supporting Chechyna rebels.. and before that mujahiddins?
not to mention the riffraffs in iraq v Iran.????????

The Real history of my country. I take it you don't live in the U.S.

OK BUDDY. You are going to tell me the real history of my country when you don't even live here.

Screw off buddy. I know the facts. I read foreign newspapers. Don't tell me I don't know something when in fact you are the ignorant one.

-wD

But in case it mattered i am half English/Irish, so you can spare the "oh and you think the Empire was so great" coz i know it wasn't OK?!
(Corinthas)
____________________________________________________________
This dude does'nt even like his own country or have any loyalty to it. Who cares what he says or thinks about ours???

[edit on 13-9-2004 by elaine]

Some people just don't like freedom.

Don't tell me about my country. I served this country. Don't tell me I am right or wrong.

9/11 - We will never forget. I fully support the U.S. I hope it lives on and on and on.

There I said it! Whatcha' gonna do? Flame me?!

-wD

I think the all around temperature needs to be dropped a notch, maybe two.

I always enjoy reading the never ending "this is why America is hated, and this is why America is great" diatribes.

Depending on which side of the discussion you fall on, you can spin any historical event to fir your point of view. With that said, and I am decidedly pro-American, history has some tough nuts to doge.

1. Let us not forget the Splendid Little War, the Spanish American War, manufactured by hawks in the goverment and the Hearst organization. We wanted to be an imperial power like everyone else! Why should everyone else get to carve up the world, and not us?

2. Hate to back track, but one must. Let us not forget the Mexican American War. A war manufactured by the manifest Destiny crowd under Jame K. Polk. War was sold to the COngress and the American people under the banner, "American blood spilled on American soil" In factt, our casualties were taken on Mexican soil. Anyone seeing a historical precedent here? I do, and I see them all over the place. We actually wanted to annex Mexico. The press got wind of the lie, and Polk ordered the war department to accelerate the conquest of Mexico to ensure it was complete before Congress moved to nullify the act of war.

3. Hawaii? How about all of Central America, with fun loving Teddy R. How about Japan when the Great White Fleet ordered Japan to open its ports. Think we sowed any seeds of WWII there?

4. China and the Boxer Rebellion.
5. The Baltic States and US intervention on the side of White Russians in the Russian Civil War.

I could really go on and on here, but I think enough has been established to show an imperial pattern. Our motives are not always pure and idealistic.

I think I can demonstrate this in Iraq. Rawanda suffered over a million civillian deaths. By the way, the same thing is shaping up in the Sudan. This incidentally is a religious cleansing by the Muslim clans against the Christian clans. But that can't make the news because it is politically incorrect.

Where did we intervene? Kosovo, to defend the Muslim minority there. Now, we invade Iraq, for WMD'S, and of course, because Sadam is a psychopath, and we want to make sure no more mass graves are filled. Oh, and we want to bring democracy to the middle east. Really?

Then where were our soliders when the slaughter ocurred in Rawanda? Where are they now? They are where a strategic and economic vital interest of the United States is. They are where the oil is. Plain and simple. Why not Rawanda? No oil. Not vital to the Corporate Machines that power the rich. Why not Sudan? I guess there isn't enough oil there, or it isn't oil we want.

As far as the world not liking us? I have never had any problem overseas. I find that if you genuinely respect the culture and cutoms of the nation you visit, then you generally have nothing to worry about. Avoid being the ugly American. I am sure that we all know a few.

But I also feel that the opinion from around the world is generally directed at our government policies, and not the average Joe earning a buck. I could be wrong, but that is my supposition.

Sorry for ranitng.

The Spider

Pick a team...

I choose the IMPERIALISTIC UNITED STATES...

For those who are part-time americans....You could have been born in France, Poland or Belguim in the 1940's.

You get the picture...consider your many blessings and be glad that IMPERIALISTs died to give you the freedoms you abuse.

You know, saying "Americans don't care what the world thinks!" and then posting pages and pages on the subject, really defeats your argument.

[edit on 13-9-2004 by curme]

These posters aren't the "world" curme. They're individuals intent on being insulting.
I'm not useing their opinions for how the "world" sees us.

I am curious to ask a question.

What of what I said was "Insulting?"

The historical references are facts. The criticism of our inaction in Rawanda and the Sudan are based on our inaction.

The fact that the middle east holds that majority of the remaining crude reserves on the planet is also a fact.

In what way does taking a critical look at our history take away from any of the accomplishments that have taken place? The liberation of Europe from the Nazi boot, tremendous, and at a tremendous sacrifice. The collapse of the Iron Curtain, cudos.

But please help me to understand where I am insulting in pointing out our history. I am most curious.

The Spider

I don't quite understand what Corinthas is trying to say with this topic, but maybe the title 'Article showing Americans "just don't get it"...' should be viewed in the same way as why some/many people don't get British humour, Aussie slang or other customs/traditions specific to certain cultures. If you don't like it that Americans 'don't get it', just put it done was one of their quirks, nod, smile and move on.

Originally posted by spidergooch
I am curious to ask a question.

What of what I said was "Insulting?"

The historical references are facts. The criticism of our inaction in Rawanda and the Sudan are based on our inaction.

The fact that the middle east holds that majority of the remaining crude reserves on the planet is also a fact.

In what way does taking a critical look at our history take away from any of the accomplishments that have taken place? The liberation of Europe from the Nazi boot, tremendous, and at a tremendous sacrifice. The collapse of the Iron Curtain, cudos.

But please help me to understand where I am insulting in pointing out our history. I am most curious.

The Spider

I was'nt referring to you or your post spider. I was referring to Corinthas.
He has a condescending attitude. I don't like it.
I don't like our current administration either but I still believe in the average people of this country. Yes our views all vary but I am still loyal to my country. Our government is not us and it can be changed. And not all are blind to what goes on. Call me an optimist.

What I find funny is that the whole point of the topic was to show an article that in Corinthas' opinion shows that we don't get why the world dislikes us. The article was written by an Indian, making that entire premise invalid!

1. It does matter what other nations have done in their history. That doesn't excuse the US for things we've done, but it doesn't make the atrocities that other various nations have commited excusable either. You can criticize for what another country is currently doing, but if you have it in your past too you can't claim the moral high ground many of you do. I consider 100 years to be recent history in the grand scheme of things.

2. What I think what a lot of us need to remember is many Americans, Canadians, Kiwis, and Aussies can all trace there ancestors back to Britan. The paths our nations have taken in the last couple hundred years have been different, but in the beginning started from the same place. I don't know exactly the point I'm trying to make there, but I think someone will get it.

Originally posted by elaine
But in case it mattered i am half English/Irish, so you can spare the "oh and you think the Empire was so great" coz i know it wasn't OK?!
(Corinthas)
____________________________________________________________
This dude does'nt even like his own country or have any loyalty to it. Who cares what he says or thinks about ours???

[edit on 13-9-2004 by elaine]

Man whats with this nationalism, oh i forgot you are forced to worship the flag every morning.

It just amazes me to see that someone who "doesn't even like his own country" can cause surch disbelief. What is the problem that you can't tell me how bad my country is, because i don't like it?!? Unfair huh?

WOW i think my mind has just boggled. This is not about tring to find the worst country its about accepting that ALL WESTERN COUNTRYS ARE DIRTY, GREEDY, GENOCIDAL MONSTERS! But Americans seems to think that they are not included in this, and produce rediculous articles trying to explain how the rest of the world must have it all wrong.
WHICH IS WHAT THIS TOPIC WAS ALL ABOUT in case you hadn't noticed and its sad to say most of the replies just seem to prove it.

But it seems as though most americans are not capable of letting go of the "its not us" theory, wich i proposed was the source of this disbelief in any outside critisim.

Example you tell me the British empire stank and was a very nasty enterprise (that why i am not proud of it btw). I say yep, what I DON'T DO is ask for your nationality so I can tell you how bad yours was, as if it would absolve me of my countrys guilt.


Edit: Adressing the "an Indian wrote it " argument:

1. Ther is no such thing as an "american" you are almost all immigrants. Yes even those born on stolen land, original americans were practically all killed! (the claim to be intrested in supporting human rights and stuff might become more plausable if the US were to aknowledge and apologize for the indian holocaust, but of course that never happened)

2.He is in the employ of HARVARD no less, making him what exactly a long haired hippy? No if you are a professor in harvard you must be doing someting "right". If you catch my drift, other wise you'd probably be at a more liberal uni.





[edit on 14/9/2004 by Corinthas]

Originally posted by PistolPete
1. It does matter what other nations have done in their history. That doesn't excuse the US for things we've done, but it doesn't make the atrocities that other various nations have commited excusable either.

I'm sorry, but...huh? The fact that other nations have committed atrocities in their history doesn't excuse that they have committed atrocities in their history? Please explain what you mean here.

You can criticize for what another country is currently doing, but if you have it in your past too you can't claim the moral high ground many of you do.

So what you're saying is that the fact that other nations may have committed atrocities in their history and thus lacking the moral high ground to be critical, does excuse the U.S. for committing them now?

I don't know exactly the point I'm trying to make there, but I think someone will get it.

No, I don't really get your point.

I will remind you if it weren't for freedom, most of those links wouldn't exist

you should say " if it werent for technology"

you guys sure fight a lot, lets not dwell on countrys past reputations. its true that history will teach us important values, and valuble lessons. we live in a much different time, we must press forward. being so culturaly segragated, and technologicaly privlaged, it is important we learn to get along. i did not even read the article, because i already know it is from a man who has warped sense of america, most certainly focused on the policies of our government, persuasion of our corperations, and for lack of a better word, retarded voice of our media. it is imperative to think outside of the box when discussing the US because that is excatly what we are.

I hate america because they take great british comedies & turn them into complete crap. Seriously guys if you are gonna watch things like the Office, Red Dwarf & Men behavin badly just watch them without putting the new actors in with canned laughter if it aint broke dont fix it


Thats the only problem i have, the US isnt the first to abuse their power they wont be the last the US as it is wont last forever & when there not the biggest power someone else will fill the gap & we can all moan at them.


[edit on 14-9-2004 by Everlasting England]

THE SPIDER

If you were referring to my post.

All Americans should look at our own history and realize we have made many mistakes. The problem is you will always have mistakes, it's human nature. But we can limit the effects of our mistakes by considering the worse case scenario. While the U.S. has spent millions in aid to help the people of Rwanda and the Sudan, it isnt about OIL. These countries are so poor that they pose no threat to national or world security. They tend to have civil wars, not terrorist wars. That is the only reason we have not gone into those countries with military force. And believe me, you would need the military to assist. If we did that, then how much more would the liberal left wing forces in the world be up in arms. How many of you anti american bloggers be complaining then. Dont try to point the finger that we are not doing enough, and the reason is OIL. I'm sure that every one of you are driving cars, taking planes or buses and somehow using OIL in your daily lives. The reason we go into IRAQ and Kuwait is exactly as you have stated...OIL. And before you think you got me on that one...AMERICA has its own oil reserves and the simple fact is...we get most of our oil from sources other than the middle east. Take it from someone who personally knows people that have worked in the middle east at 2 of the worlds largest oil companies. We dont need middle eastern oil...the majority of our oil comes from South America and other small producers. Not to mention, reports have shown that we have untapped reserves in U.S. territory that the Left Wing Radicals/Tree huggers wont let us drill for. That being said...We do protect and defend the oil in the middle east for one reason...should the profits and benefits of having such large reserves fall into the hands of terrorists what do you think would happen. Europe, China, Russia, etc do not have sufficient oil reserves and if the control of the oil reserves in the middle east were in the hands of ...IRAN, AL QAEDA and similar terrorist groups...what do you think would happen to YOU. So to answer the "AMERICA KILLS FOR OIL" crowd...whether you believe it or not...if we didnt do it...you would all be subject to Radical Muslim rule...eventually. Having control of the oil gives the nut cases control of the world economy. Funding for nuclear weapons would be no problem. What do you dummies think the invasion was all about. Russia, France, Germany and probably others were all on the take with the IRAQ OIL FOR FOOD program...that was supposed to be MANAGED by the UN. It's no wonder our so called Allies didnt support the war. No more cash, no more oil, etc, etc. I can look at my country and see the errors throughout history...I can also look at the facts and make sense out of this whole mess. Do you really think that we are doing the wrong thing? You all act like we invaded a peaceful, democratic nation whose people were prospering. ARE YOU NUTS? These people were ruled by fear, by terror. I can walk down the street and I'm certain that I have an excellent chance that my family is going to be safe and sound. I wont be shot because I didnt bow to ALLAH or let a psycho rape my wife. My daughter can go to school and educate herself. While I'm not proud of everything my country does...there are worse places to be 100 times over.
So you can all complain about what we are doing is wrong. Complain about BUSH and his administration. The bottom line is this...should we get out of IRAQ and let the Radical Muslims control the largest oil reserves in the world? Do you really think the world would be a safer place if this was so?
You people need to have your heads examined.