Article showing Americans "just don't get it"...

Gee, time was when we could have been talking about the UK, rather than the US. Here's a few lines from a racist/imperialist of a bygone age. (Rudyard Kipling). Perhaps Corinthas can translate them for us.

"The White Man's Burden"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!


[edit on 13-9-2004 by dr_strangecraft]

Was to show the kind of thinking behind the "they just hate us" defence of US global policy.

Interesting to see the reasons you could think of for me posting this:

Bash American's? Create a flame war? To somehow show that 'others' are more superior than American's?

Some how the ONLY way someone can think badly of the US is "hate". This is what you "don't get".

QED

Well let me tell you I have read some history and quite frankly thats enough to want to wish the US may one day experience the full effects of "freedom" american style!

By the way did you see my sig? New quotes


[edit on 13/9/2004 by Corinthas]

Cortinthas: I have a question to ask you? Which country are you from? I can see you are really proud of it as you don't even list it in your location in your mini profile. And what makes your country great?

@Dr Strangecraft

Sure we could have been talking about the UK, France or any other western imperialist country, its just the US is so good at it right now!

Seriously though this has nothing to do with me picking on the US.. if it had been France or the UK I hope to have enough integrety to accuse them of the same. My real point was the inability of the US population to accept ANY critisim, any at all. It is all dismissed as "they hate us".

Originally posted by Mynaeris
Cortinthas: I have a question to ask you? Which country are you from? I can see you are really proud of it as you don't even list it in your location in your mini profile. And what makes your country great?

The fact that I don't mention it... hmmmm lemme think here...

WHAT DO YOU THINK? I deliberately don't mention it 'coz its that kind of bull that we are trying to avoid here.

But in case it mattered i am half English/Irish, so you can spare the "oh and you think the Empire was so great" coz i know it wasn't OK?!?!

As to what makes "my country" great? NOTHING, I REFUSE TO LIVE IN THE HOLE CALLED THE UKoGBaNI (United Kingdon of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). I currently reside in The Netherlands.

Edit: more rant

[edit on 13/9/2004 by Corinthas]

[edit on 13/9/2004 by Corinthas]

In which country do you live. Don't try and beat about the bush here with the half irish/british fudge. Its a simple straight forward question.

Originally posted by Mynaeris
In which country do you live. Don't try and beat about the bush here with the half irish/british fudge. Its a simple straight forward question.

Put that in the above post with edit.

Now you fit the picture perfectly - The Netherlands and Britain - the founders of so many total messes around the world. The battle for supremacy in the third world. South Africa being the prime example first colonize a country bringing disease to and killing off the natives, set in place draconian rule over the natives, in this case Apartheid, then when all hell breaks loose and change comes, both the UK and the Netherlands for the most part washed their hands off these "foreigners" and wouldn't offer them refuge. Oh wait didn't they start America also? Ever hear of New Amsterdam?

Hmmm you sound disgruntled about life, spend some time reading about the creation of the third world by European rule, notably England, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal. America didn't turn Africa into the mess it is, Europe did.

[edit on 13-9-2004 by Mynaeris]

just me two cents worth....America is still a young nation compared to the rest of the nations. All of the European nations have had things in their past that they look back at and say "what the heck were we thinking" (germany=rise of nazi-ism. british=ruthless colonialism. russia=countless power hungry czars and other political clowns) Europe has had many years to learn from their mistakes and adjust their internal and external views to acceptable world standards. And just like them, we will work through our problems and our grandchildren will look back and say "what were they thinking?"

Ooops really messed this up! Try again:



Ok the fact that you had to get the info out of me so you can attack me on it shows you are the king of the "just don't get its"!

A small pointer, look at what I had posted before your little revelation:

But in case it mattered i am half English/Irish, so you can spare the "oh and you think the Empire was so great" coz i know it wasn't OK?!

Important here is : so you can spare the "oh and you think the Empire was so great" coz i know it wasn't OK?!




[edit on 13/9/2004 by Corinthas]

[edit on 13/9/2004 by Corinthas]

I think you are the King of "I don't get it" , a bit of education is a rather pathetic thing. This thread is here for goodness knows what reason it belongs in the mudpit or chit chat - all speculation and no fact. I think you should join the junior ATS, you still don't know how to speak to adults.

I believe if you are going to insult posters on this thread have the courtesy to leave the insults on the thread instead of edit them out after they have been read.

The points that I was raising are very relevant to the discussion. By the way I am not even American. I am from one of those countries that the Netherlands messed up and ran from.

[edit on 13-9-2004 by Mynaeris]

I dont understand why SOME people find the need to talk down on people every chance they get.

Originally posted by Mynaeris


The points that I was raising are very relevant to the discussion. By the way I am not even American. I am from one of those countries that the Netherlands messed up and ran from.

[edit on 13-9-2004 by Mynaeris]

About Europe messing up africa, just look at what the Marshall plan says about it! (Marshall plan = 1 FACT BTW)
It says Africa is to be used by Europe to rebuild after the war. An American policy document says this!


What point as far as i am aware you jump in with this :

Cortinthas: I have a question to ask you? Which country are you from? I can see you are really proud of it as you don't even list it in your location in your mini profile. And what makes your country great?


Is there "a point" hidden in there? NO


You asked my where i lived so you can give me the "you country ain't so great either" treatment!

Great point then isn't it?

About your accusation that there are no facts, just look at some of the examples i mention. Not facts? I wonder how you define the word then!

@spittingcobra:

He asked me for my place of residence SO HE COULD TALK ME DOWN!
I will talk down on someone who asks me where I live to come up with a nobel prize winning "look your country did it too" argument.

Edit: bit for spittingcobra

Edit: more on marshall plan

[edit on 13/9/2004 by Corinthas]

[edit on 13/9/2004 by Corinthas]

The history of America is totally tied into its heritage. I believe that you should either start with a blog where you can rant by yourself, or allow others to post without you flaming them. I have already informed the moderators about your behavior this is not some chatline. The reason I asked your country of origin was to understand where you were coming from, actually originally I suspected either the Scandinavian countries or South America. I must say I was surprised by the UK and Netherlands connection. But in part that is definitely a great thread for another time. "How Europe created the third world and blamed America"

I half agree with your last satement , Europe created the New World and now sees it as a Frankensteins monster.
"Western Civilization" created the 3rd World.

This post was not about blame though. It was about the inability of Americans to understand where the critisim was coming from. As demonstrated by my attempd to refute the the reasons for anti-amreicanism as presented by the article. The attemps to find a cause for anti-americansim involve shameful deciets and lies whitewashing the whole of american history to present a cleaner than clean front so that they can present the "oh they just hate us for no reason" or the "just jealous" arguments. Even the its just Bush argument ignores the 100 odd presidents that went before. Please lets also not forget the US has yet to admit to its own native genocide.

Every one of the replies (bar a few) seem to strengthen my point. I have recieved only abuse and disbelief as replies.


[edit on 13/9/2004 by Corinthas]

Originally posted by MynaerisI am from one of those countries that the Netherlands messed up and ran from.

And the Netherlands stole all of Aruba's gold in the 19th century. Milked every shiny rock out of the ground and went with it. But oh well... That's 100-150 years ago, and we will never see that gold again... Only when the queen is in her golden chariot...

My point is, nobody in the western world has been a saint...

I always find it funny reading these american bashing posts, when most of the people outside of america do not realize what a true american is, a true american isn't the politician running for office, or the wealth mongering power hungry elitist, and that is what you just will not get, america itself is about freedom, about freedom to fight for what we believe in, and before you start throwing links at me about things happening to negate that freedom, I will remind you if it weren't for freedom, most of those links wouldn't exist, and if it weren't for freedom, I would not be able to fight back against those who would try to steal it.

I am an american, i fought for this country, and I am proud for what i stand for when i salute my flag. Yes it does bother me that the rest of the world will criticize us as a people by judging the 5% of us who do the worst, whereas if I were to turn around and point fingers at the rest of the world, you would go cowering in the corner because you don't have a leg to stand on, and i do take all challengers to that, whatever country you are from, tell me how good you are compared to the rest of the world.

I don't criticize you for who you are, and don't say you are bad as a people because of what some of you may do, i.e. I don't hate iraq because saddam was a madman, could you imagine if i judged iraqis based on him? So please spare me the anti-american banter, and try to concentrate on your affairs so that we can concentrate on ours

Americans not understanding an article showing Americans "just don't get it"!

i JUST DON"T GET it.. People are so SENSITIVE when you criticise their government, policies and scandals. WHY THE HELL DO THEY identify and gravitate themselves to the government. beats me. unless they `re government employees of the current regime.

you're right - i JUST DON'T GET IT.

Please for crying out loud will everyone just take a valium and calm the heck down? EVERY country has things in it's past that people look back on now and grimace & wonder how the heck that country could have been so nieve, harsh and/or stupid. America is no different. However there DOES seem to be this "our country has never done any wrong and are incapable of doing wrong" attitude.

Who do you think helped put Saddam in power? Look it up on google, it was America. America in the past has also funded what they now class as terrorist organisations, here is a story that took me the whole of 5seconds to find that is from a reliable source (ABCNews):

Before his company sent him overseas, Allan Laird, a former Denver-based mining executive, had never heard of Abu Sayyaf.

As Laird quickly learned when he arrived in the Philippines, Abu Sayyaf is one of the world's most-feared terrorist organizations, closely connected to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network.

Laird said he also soon discovered the company for whom he formerly worked, Echo Bay, was regularly paying Abu Sayyaf and other terror groups in the Philippines in exchange for protection of its gold-mining operations.

So tell me now that America is promoting freedom and making the world a better place for everyone? They basically helped Abu Sayyaf get on their feet, and now they are trying their best to obliterate them. It's fairly well known that America has repeated this "fund a group then blow em up" approach numerous times in the last 20 or so years.

I'm all for world peace (you'd have to be silly if you weren't), but as the line from a song by spearhead goes, "You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb the world into peace."

Amercia, +1 point for trying to make all the nice little countries play nicely, but -100 for the way you are going about doing it. Your intentions are good, but the methods need to be re-examined.