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Why can't we, me, or you separate from our own governent? what states it?

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posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by TheMindWar
 


I guess that depends on state? what if people wanted a commune style living? would converting to Amish be better?




posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by mytheroy
 


Nope unfortunately you can't do any of these things, because you are not free. It is an illusion. I think that the truth is hidden from us, but we all accept the lies anyway. We have become a race of sheep, it might be too late to change now....


No we are free I feel, it is just we accept our oppression.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 


What makes it to late?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by The_Oracle

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
The answer to your question is 1776.


And living according to a piece of constitutional paper isn't any similar to restricting yourself to live by religion?

Does it state anywhere in any constitution that we as people should never ever decide to turn to a better system if it would be available?


I agree, I think we are beyond restricting ourselves to a piece of paper with rules on it, it really is quite childish, however on the other hand, greed has completely taken over people's mindsets, and without it to look back to, we could all end up to slaves to the guy with the biggest stick, not unlike the situation we're in now, i guess. Yes we could all move to a better system, but people right now aren't able to concieve on how such a thing would happen, in terms of setting it up, and transitioning to it. In a way people want to change, but deep down they want everything to stay the same, and whatever happens is what wins the battle.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by mytheroy
 



what makes it too late?

Only fear.
I'm on board with you, and I've tried more than a few times to get some interest in implementing just such a group.
I don't know your location, but I believe it can be done (I know it is being done), and I'm on the brink of jumping in there. It's time (past time) to get off the grid.

This "America" makes me feel sick to my stomach.
(s/f from me)
edit on 16-1-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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So if I had 99% of a populas that wanted a commune living that it could be done?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by mytheroy
 


Nah...just a few, really. I'd say the best grouping would be about two dozen...make sure we have a rep from each trade (no stock-brokers or bankers need apply), everyone has something to contribute. Whether simple manual labor, or physician's skills....
just so all the needs of a community are met via one member or another.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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if you get enough people together on the same page you can just make you're own, thats how this one was established.

it wasn't legal for them to revolt until they had won then it didnt matter. they were the power then.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by mytheroy
 


Isn't that what happened in Waco?
Didn't turn out well for them, The Gov hates it when you show you don't need them.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by mytheroy
 


I've had issue with this topic for quite some time, and to me it boils down to this...

Law says that nobody can enter into a binding legal contract if they are below the age of 18, but the most important contract we are bound to in life is the US Social Security System(not sure if this is relevent to people in other countries, or if they have a similar system). You can do nothing in this country if you do not possess this thing, and we are never given the choice. We are forced into it by our government and parents.

Is there in fact any way to remove yourself from this system without crippling your ability to work, go to school, or live the standard of life that is offered to someone within the system(credit cards, home loans, etc...)?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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Ok, clear something up for me here. When you say you want freedom from governments and the ability to in accordance to your own wishes, do you mean live in such a way that laws of those governments shouldn't affect you or you should be able to live without the governments death and taxes regime in your life?

Laws exist for a reason, to stop us all from devolving into cavemen and taking whatever we needed to survive, even if it be out of the houses of those we live by. Laws (although sometimes open for debate) are there to preserve life, including yours. And lastly laws are created in such to maintain order in a society that without them would degenerate very quickly into absolute chaos.

Lastly, taxes, and yes, we all hate 'em, myself included, are there to provide services that we here and now often do so without even considering. Ever gone to a public playground? Taxes. Ever driven on a road or used a bike path? Taxes. And the inevitable, what if a country decides it wants what you have and sends it's militia? Although some don't agree with military complex of their own country, I would feel safer knowing there are at least a few tanks, troops and planes standing between them and our families in such an event. Again, taxes.

Choice is really simple as far as life goes. Don't want to pay for it? Don't use it. People often mistake that in this day and age that what we have we grumble about paying for. No one holds a gun to anyone's head and forces them into a two car, one house 40 hour a week lifestyle, people do that. Not governments, not banks, not the guy next door with his $150,000 4WD he just bought. We do.
Just something to think about.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by The_Oracle
Does it state anywhere in any constitution that we as people should never ever decide to turn to a better system if it would be available?


The Declaration of Independence demands as much in every line.

It is an interesting topic. Whenever it comes up I am always reminded of Thoreau and what he thought about this. Here it is:


Seen from a lower point of view, the Constitution, with all its faults, is very good; this State and this American government are, in many respects, very admirable and rare things, to be thankful for; but seen from a point of view a little higher, and higher still, and the highest, who shall say what they are, or that they are worth looking at or thinking of at all?

They who know of no purer sources of truth, who have traced up its stream no higher, stand, and wisely stand, by the Bible and the Constitution, and drink at it there with reverence and humility; but they who behold where it comes trickling into this lake or that pool, gird up their loins once more, and continue their pilgrimage toward its fountain-head.

Is it not possible to take a step further towards recognizing and organizing the rights of man? There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. I please myself with imagining a State at least which can afford to be just to all men, and to treat the individual with respect as a neighbor; which even would not think it inconsistent with its own repose if a few were to live aloof from it, not meddling with it, nor embraced by it, who fulfilled all the duties of neighbors and fellow-men. A State which bore this kind of fruit, and suffered it to drop off as fast as it ripened, would prepare the way for a still more perfect and glorious State, which also I have imagined, but not yet anywhere seen.

-Henry David Thoreau, Concord, Massachusetts, 1849


I agree.
edit on 16-1-2012 by METACOMET because: sp



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by VforVendettea
 


What happened in Waco?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by kalisdad
 


I know there a forms that you can file and not pay into certain tax programs, but I want to live my way, If I don't make it means I failed as an individual.and I'm not asking for help from the beast we call a Government.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by mytheroy
 


I asked a judge once: why do we have to obey the law... The answer it came down to is the law has a bigger stick than me....


This is pretty much the answer.

Just for the sake of saying - say I wanted to separate from the US and from my own little country. The small, but proud nation of Frogtopia.

Say I actually managed to accomplish this without getting tossed in jail, stripped of all I own and / or killed just because...well.. just because the government frowns on this type of thing.

Now that I've established Frogtopia I'm essentially a country unto myself surrounded by another country. That is a bad place to be. The US could chose not to let me travel on its roads. I could be locked inside Frogtopia. The US could decide my currency (the Ribbit) was not legal tender and could not be accepted for any transactions - thus making it impossible for me to buy or sell anything. They could shut off my water, power, etc. Heck, they could even declare war on me. Given that a short hop to the fridge leaves me winded - it probably wouldn't work out too well.

Its basically the bigger stick mentioned in the quote.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by Frogs
 


The problem lays when men think they can rule with said power, but it's our right to revolt? make it better? If a person or commune is allowed to separate, than the Government has to accept you as a country right? and negotiate accordingly, but no outside influence would be honoured as we wouldn't need help from a government, and that where the problem lays...The most power you can gain in a earthly sense is having the masses screaming we need you to survive, But for law purposes what law says otherwise?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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Don't want to live by societies rules?

Buy a deserted island.

Build your own infrastructure.
Grow your own food.
Produce your own energy.
Make your own rules.

And if others follow, will they be able to live by their own rules, independent of you, or will they have to live by your rules, on your island?

And if others don't follow, are you really so sure you would be able to truly be self-sufficient without the rest of society? Or is the plan to simply get away from it all but maintain all of the modern conveniences?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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The problem has always been that in a structured society, laws start being made by the rich to protect their wealth...After a while the little enclave at the top has it all, they make the laws concerning investments then control the Government.....Their children whom its only natural they want to protect, then have children.They want to live at the same high standard of living..but theirs only so much cake to go around so the poor have to get poorer to support the aristocracy.Then its only them that can afford a good education, then it becomes them and us..and you no longer have an inclusive society....unless this problem is nipped in the bud...like in the socially advanced democracies like Norway and Sweden.That is Tax the rich!!...the problem is the rich dont want to get taxed and since they own the Government..well they are the Government. So for the vast majority you are now basicly a human resource to be used. With all the wealth that could change things being locked up by a small percentage of widows whos investment advise is dont do anything to shake the boat. Most of the workers are fed up with this state of affairs,but we seem to have ended up in a cul de sac with very few options.Which is sad because the "aristos" know this hence the security to keep everyone in line.Well if you were an "Aristo" you'd be scared as well. But historicly on the other hand no society that reaches this state of affairs last much longer. So the only way out it to head for someplace where the society still treats people with some respect, usualy a place where the living can be hard but rewarding.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by madhatr137
 


I would be glad to give up everything I have now and personally feel that I would have more life satisfaction. Everyday I wake up and feel I don't belong? But to live by and off the land means to never be seen again.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by anonentity
 


Sounds like Mexico or Brazil I'm not wanting to give my status up. but merely say f^%k you I'm not playing any more. it's my life not yours



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