Natural remedies "seldom effective"

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Yes, I would say there is a conspiracy:

Why would MSM wish to denigrate natural remedies?
I can also attest that they work....they don't work overnight...as mainstream remedies claim...they work more wit the body to help heal itself.
They also don't have the often serious to horrendous side effects often found with many newer drugs.
And, they don't line the pockets of Big Pharma.....hmmm, maybe that is why Big Pharma gives them

reply to post by Nyiah


ALL healing modalities have their place. All work when properly implemented. If you didn't use it right, it certainly won't work. Homeopathy is rather complicated, like all the rest. To say it categorically doesn't work is just wrong.

The first thing people must understand is that your body and mind have been severely compromised by our current manner of living, our influences both emotionally and mentally, and our foods are polluted even when we eat reasonably carefully. To get back our health we will have to start over, basically. We have to learn to live and love from the start. We are very diseased on every energetic level, as a whole.

Healing doesn't happen one symptom at a time. It happens slowly and deliberately, when we listen to what our souls communicate through our bodies. Our physical body is the manifestation of part of your soul here in these dimensions. This is not all of what we are. But you must learn to listen to yourself, not to others. Healers can help but only to the extent that you are yourself aware of what is going on. You must be active in your own health and wellbeing. Pawning that responsibility off on others is not responsible action.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
lol - Hi PP - nice lack of actual peer reviewed literature there.

thanks for reinforcing my point.

How idiotic a statement ATG.. The first link references big pharma's OWN STUDIES obtained by foia.

All the other statements you can find in a myriad of locations if you dont' like my links.

Do you deny that our food is less nutritious?

Here is Scientific American:

it is true that fruits and vegetables grown decades ago were much richer in vitamins and minerals than the varieties most of us get today. The main culprit in this disturbing nutritional trend is soil depletion: Modern intensive agricultural methods have stripped increasing amounts of nutrients from the soil in which the food we eat grows. Sadly, each successive generation of fast-growing, pest-resistant carrot is truly less good for you than the one before.

A landmark study on the topic by Donald Davis and his team of researchers from the University of Texas (UT) at Austin’s Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry was published in December 2004 in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition. They studied U.S. Department of Agriculture nutritional data from both 1950 and 1999 for 43 different vegetables and fruits, finding “reliable declines” in the amount of protein, calcium, phosphorus, iron, riboflavin (vitamin B2) and vitamin C over the past half century. Davis and his colleagues chalk up this declining nutritional content to the preponderance of agricultural practices designed to improve traits (size, growth rate, pest resistance) other than nutrition.

link

Peer reviewed enough for ya?

ETA: here's the peer reviewed article quoted in the article: link

If you have a problem take it up with all those PHD's:
"Changes in USDA Food Composition Data for 43 Garden Crops, 1950 to 1999
Donald R. Davis, PhD, FACN, Melvin D. Epp, PhD and Hugh D. Riordan, MD"

[fabricated quote removed]

Many modern medicines are derived from natural remedies.
Even if some of them give a placebo effect (as, I'm sure, some medicines do), they still do their job and as far as I'm concerned that's what matters

Haven't read through all the replies yet so excuse if this has been covered but...

Where do you think they get the ideas for the synthetic chemicals from that are put into the pharma's??
They are natural/plant derivatives! All of it is stuff that is trying to mimic nature's natural remedies in "safer" or more concentrated forms. Natural remedies DO work, admittance of this would do nothing but remove money that would otherwise be in THEIR wallets.

Originally posted by nightbringr
Lemon juice (citrus) cured my kidney stones and prevented a very painful operation. Three fourths of all kidney stones can are soluble in citrus acid. The less common uric acid stones are not. This procedure can cost over $10,000 dollars in the US. So, for $3 worth of concentrated lemon juice, i prevented Canadian taxpayers from paying over $10,000.

When you go to a medical site like webMD and it says this:

diet-to-prevent-kidney-stones

Drink lemonade made from real lemons (not lemon flavoring). It is high in citrate, which may help prevent kidney stones.

I don't think this falls into the 95% the researchers claim is ineffective.

Let's look at the OP story claim:

Holt told The Press that of the "hundreds" of therapies and products, about 95 per cent were either not biologically plausible or not supported by research evidence.

Popular but ineffective products and therapies included deer velvet, rescue remedy, arnica, propolis, magnets, shark cartilage, the lemon detox diet, and megadoses of vitamin C to treat cancer.

Some products, such as colloidal silver, which is marketed as being beneficial for the immune system and in fighting diseases such as cancer, HIV and pneumonia, could be dangerous, he said.

Do they say adding lemon juice to the diet is ineffective in treating kidney stones? No they don't. The lemon detox diet isn't for treatment of kidney stones, it's supposedly for "cleansing and weight loss", so your anecdote in no way diminishes the findings in this study.

What is surprising is that your doctor didn't know this information was published on WebMD, is he/she incompetent? I'd probably get another doctor if I were you.

reply to post by manna2


People nowadays live long enough to get cancer. Decades ago, most people died before the age of 65 from things like tuberculosis, pneumonia, diarrhea, the three leading causes of death in 1900. You see, the cancer epidemic is partly due to the advances in medicine that allow us to live long enough to develop it.

BTW, that is why government chose 65 to be the age to receive social security. Because they knew few people would live long enough to collect. Modern medicine threw a wrench into those plans and now those programs are strained.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul



Thats kinda funny because most manufactured drugs come from natural remedies.. I have been using natural remedies with effectiveness for years..

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Not sure the point your trying to make.

All i said was it worked for me. And get this, it didnt PREVENT the stones, it CURED it. Please, i encourage you to talk to any urologist on this matter. They will deny it up and down because it is their bread and butter. If this info caught on, three out of four surgeries would be prevented, reducing their business drastically. Let me make this clear: he denied outright it would not cure them. He said it MAY prevent them, but never cure them then dismissed me with arrogance. I will never recommend this doctor to anyone.

All i am saying is some home remedies DO work, and not to be too skeptical of the ones that cost nothing (cost me $3.00) and have no downsides besides perhaps an upset stomach. Are you a urologist?

I have one word to say:

AMISH

Look at the Amish. Longevity, NO ADHD, NO AUTISM, NO CANCER, yada yada yada

Their "natural" remedies: Clean unprocessed food, no microwaves, no chemically treated water, hard work. These are the best examples of natural remedies and provable facts in the world.

ETA: NO Vaccines!

Poppycock to the scientific findings!

When properly researched and appropriately applied, many natural remedies have worked for my family, where pharmaceuticals have failed.

I've used teatree oil, for eg, in my household to successfully treat athletes foot, a wart, colds, tonsillitis and flu. Unlike anti-biotics, there are no nasty side-effects, and your body doesn't build up immunity to it.

I've made concoctions from my aroma therapy book that have fixed ezcema quickly for a niece, and two friends, where they were desperate due to their prescribed medications having no useful effect.

The media have been sabotaging the image of vitamins & homeopathic cures for years. Their motives are transparently obvious. Goolies to them!

What does seldom constitute.? Sorry I need numbers. Truth of the matter is that the scientists and doctors who run these trials, get paid by the pharmaceutical giants to produce these skewed results.! It's just like street hustler, you bully the other product off the block only these people do it legally.

I've been listening to stories and testamonials of the Essiac Tea, a remedy that has cured the latest stages of cancer.! Unfortunately my own uncle sucumb to his battle with lung cancer while on the tea, but I still have the uptmost faith in the healing powers of tea. Here's a video from a professor of mine on the matter. www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I am still waiting for you to address the nutriceutical mkt.
Though it is now succombing to the onslought from the big-pharma it is still relevant till regulated out of existance to clear the field for big pharma.

Unless you want us to only address the worst of pharma and the worst of natural for this present witch hunt.
Nutriceuticals vs. pharma is the best way to compare.

And comparing history to the present is even more disengenuous as well.

I put forward right now the present peoples that have the highest rates of ceturnians for comparison and study and I dare you to find even miniscule reference to modern science and pharma as their secrets.
Far from it, their methods date back centuries and millenia for their traditions that give them happiness, well being and health.
www.youtube.com...

Everything they do is natural.
I will repeat.
Alot of the useless natural remedies on store shelves are put there by big pharma subsidiaries to destroy the market for their monopoly hold on pharmaceuticals.
So, what is the reason for Okinawa, Loma Linda, Cal., and the mountain people of sandinia living active and healthy lives past 100 years of age?
I can assure you it isn't because of recently published "scientific" papers, peer reviewed or not.They simply understand the same thing their forfathers passed down to them.
This is the best comparison, not some witch hunt that benefits codex alimetarus or agenda 21

*snip* I have been living in Okinawa for 6years, I have found the okinawans drink Sanpin, Green and Herbal teas all day long."

I have yet to hear anyone attribute their long lived age, well being and healthy activity to anything that is NOT natural.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I do no natural remedies anymore or any counter pharmeceuticals, except antibiotics if I am in dire need, other than that I do chakra cleansing, meditation healing, and positive affirmations, I used to suffer with Asthma especially this time of year this year I finally got fed up got motivated and did these things...and it may have been exactly the day that I decided to do so (shortly after new years') because I have not had one asthma attack for the last 16 days. I truly beleive the problem lies in our chi and our "Minds" everything can be thought out of existence.

Originally posted by SurrealisticPillow
Bee Pollen is probably the best natural remedy.
I have been taking it for thirty years, for allergies. Side affect? No more flu.
If you need an immune system boost, and you are not allergic to bee pollen, take it. You won't regret it.

Unfortunately it's no proof of anything to say that because you take 'y', you didn't catch 'x'. It's like someone who spins on their head every day saying, 'I spin on my head and don't get colds' - ergo spinning on your head stops you getting colds! I'm over 60 and only ever had flu once. I don't take anything. Maybe it's cos I talk to the dog? That's it 'Talking to the dog stops colds!'.
That said I do use propolis throat spray. I used to be prone to sore throats but that stops them in their tracks.

Originally posted by nightbringr
All i am saying is some home remedies DO work, and not to be too skeptical of the ones that cost nothing (cost me $3.00) and have no downsides besides perhaps an upset stomach.

The point of the article is that 95% of what they studied is either ineffective or in some cases harmful. Your example is in the 5% which is effective.

I agree with you about not recommending the doctor. Regarding the distinction between prevention and cure, yes that's interesting. It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to use lemon juice a treatment if it is effective for prevention, and I have no idea why your doctor reacted the way he did. No I'm not a urologist, just someone who is incredibly healthy and never gets sick so I must be doing something right. I've never had any stones nor any other ailments other than one or two colds or flu cases per decade.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Right, then why is that when I had third degree burns over 60% of my leg that 8 months later and thousands of dollars later I still had infections and the burn wasn't healing?

Because pharmaceutical therapy is the only thing that works?

But... wait... then why was it that aloe vera and apple cider vinegar is what finally healed me within just a few weeks?

Because they don't work, only expensive pharmaceutical therapy works.

Riiigghhttt.

And why is it that when my family doc had me addicted to a dozen different meds I felt horrible and suicidal, but that when I got off all that pharmaceutical crap and moved towards a healthy organic lifestyle I felt ten million times better?

I think I will stick with what I know works for me and not what some corporate conglomerate tells me works for me.

Now, yes I know that some of our medical breakthroughs actually DO work. I had surgery on my shoulder, it now works. I had to have shots in my lower spine, those did work. So, on the flip side, research and find out what works for YOU for a specific ailment and not what some corporate tells you works for you.

I'll stick with what I have learned works for me, and I will use modern medical technology when I feel it is what I need.

Harm None
Peace

When it comes to serious illnesses, chemotherapy remedies are just as bad if not worse:

Is chemotherapy effective?

but at least natural remedies don't kill cells.

Clin Oncol (R Coll Radiol). 2004 Dec;16(8):549-60.

The contribution of cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adult malignancies.

Morgan G, Ward R, Barton M.

Department of Radiation Oncology, Northern Sydney Cancer Centre, Royal North Shore Hospital, Sydney, NSW, Australia.

Abstract

AIMS: The debate on the funding and availability of cytotoxic drugs raises questions about the contribution of curative or adjuvant cytotoxic chemotherapy to survival in adult cancer patients.

MATERIALS AND METHODS: We undertook a literature search for randomised clinical trials reporting a 5-year survival benefit attributable solely to cytotoxic chemotherapy in adult malignancies. The total number of newly diagnosed cancer patients for 22 major adult malignancies was determined from cancer registry data in Australia and from the Surveillance Epidemiology and End Results data in the USA for 1998. For each malignancy, the absolute number to benefit was the product of (a) the total number of persons with that malignancy; (b) the proportion or subgroup(s) of that malignancy showing a benefit; and (c) the percentage increase in 5-year survival due solely to cytotoxic chemotherapy. The overall contribution was the sum total of the absolute numbers showing a 5-year survival benefit expressed as a percentage of the total number for the 22 malignancies.

RESULTS: The overall contribution of curative and adjuvant cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adults was estimated to be [color="Red"]2.3% in Australia and [color="Red"]2.1% in the USA.

CONCLUSION: As the 5-year relative survival rate for cancer in Australia is now [color="Red"]over 60%, it is clear that [color="Red"]cytotoxic chemotherapy only makes a minor contribution to cancer survival. To justify the continued funding and availability of drugs used in cytotoxic chemotherapy, [color="Green"]a rigorous evaluation of the cost-effectiveness and impact on quality of life is urgently required.

I always get a chuckle out of the "natural remedies don't work line"

White Willow Bark - original source of aspirin
Guiacum plant - source of Guaifenasin
Ephedrine - Ephedra sinica
Menthol - Mentha species
Morphine - Papaver somniferum
Digitalis - Foxglove
Thymol - Thymus vulgaris

the list is huge...

www.rain-tree.com...

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
My motivations are in the initial post - to deny ignorance. It is clear to me that there is a lot of it here on ATS - so I try to do my bit.

Do your bit? Seems to me your 'bit' is to promote ignorance, not deny it... a trend I see in a lot of your posts

Why do you thnik someone has to work in a particular industry to post a link to a news item?? Do you think everyone posting about Iran/Israel issues works for Mossad, or Iranian Diplomatic Service, or the US State Dept for example??

Because baggage handlers are hardly qualified to make judgements on medical issues