Natural remedies "seldom effective"

reply to post by UnlimitedSky

What is Urina?
I have never heard of it. Perhaps it is the spelling. Where can I get it?
Thanks.

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow


Little known fact, urine is used in many medicines.

This link some of you might find interesting....

Nearly Half of All Pharmaceuticals Produced Overseas, Many in Unregulated Chinese Factories

reply to post by Boomer1941

I am not sure that he/she meant urine, but possibly so.
Urina might be slang for something, but I have never heard of a supplement named Urina.

reply to post by Boomer1941


Good point, I think the safety of both vitamins and various medicines will become a concern, especially in countries like SA that rely partly on "little pharma" from India and China.

I saw a documentary on outbreaks of Tryptophan poisoning in the US a while back.
I think it was on the Crime and Investigation Channel, where they've busted many so-called "alternative healers" who knowingly poisoned their patients.

I think this Tryptophan was made in some Asian country, and they stuffed up the process.

Tryptophan was an alternative cure for insomnia, and the amino acid was even encouraged in the early 1990s by doctors.
However, some people got life-ruining side-effects:
articles.latimes.com...
It's still around in many countries in "brain-boosters" and other "health products", at much lower dosages.

Urine is indeed used in many cultures, sometimes as a daily tonic, or as drops, or it is even rubbed into the skin. Sources that recommend it range from the Bible to tribal cultures.
To some it is disgusting, but others drink from the "life-giving waters" like true disciples.
en.wikipedia.org...
Apparently many of today's sport's drinks have the same stuff as urine, but they taste much better!

Urina is a homeopathic mixture named for it's effects for problems of the urinary system, and it does not contain urine:
www.natura.co.za...|productview,8,Urina

Urina is a combination of homoeopathic ingredients that offers support for your bladder and helps your body to overcome bladder infections naturally. It contains Aconitum napellus which helps to ease sudden onset pain and irritation, Cantharis vesicatoria which is used to soothe the unbearable burning sensation and Petroselinium which helps to alleviate the sudden urge to urinate.

reply to post by halfoldman

Thanks for the Urina link.
(Actually, the wife thanks you)

reply to post by SurrealisticPillow

You're welcome.
Haven't tried it myself, or needed it.
I just added it to highlight the meaning as distinct from "urine therapy".
Because homeopathic remedies are very old (and were once the common medicine) they have some weird and misleading names to our modern ears.
But homeopathic medicine has no side-effects, so use as recommended, and it's worth a try.
I think Cranberry juice also has some official backing for urinary infections and problems.
www.nativeremedies.com...

reply to post by deadeyedick


Right and in that case I could possibly agree with some of the alternative or herbal medicines. However we must be careful. The forefathers of modern medicines, the Greeks, used to prescribe an herb to pregnant women that would in fact treat their symptoms. The side effect was a genetic disorder in their children that caused them to be cyclopes. Just because its natural does not mean it is in fact healthy.

reply to post by halfoldman


Now I may be wrong about this but are you talking about L Trypothan (SP). A commonly found protein in Turkey and made naturally in the body? It is said that it can help you sleep, however you need an empty stomach for it to work.

Originally posted by Pardon?
Unfortunately I'm a bit short of time so I've not had chance to read every post in the thread.

No excuse... you were just in a hurry to state your biased opinion

Although I'm absolutely positive that there are many natural remedies which are effective, I'm also very certain that more of them are ineffective and rely on the placebo effect for "results".

So you support the natural healing by power of mind method

Are people also aware about how much the natural remedy business is worth (I include all forms in this, from acupuncture to homoeopathy)?Surely there's a counter-conspiracy which keeps you spending your money on these?

Not even 1% of what the pharmaceutical, doctors and hospital business is worth. No one works for free Do YOU work for free? Yeah that's what I thought :shk: Surely it is the right of an individual who is suffering from something the doctors and pills can't cure, to try alternative methods

Originally posted by Pardon?
Remember, people often used to die from an infected tooth or a small cut back then so comparing the natural remedies to what we have now in that respect is pretty much invalid

Remember today MILLIONS of people cannot afford doctors or those expensive pharmaceuticals. If the medical profession was so intent on healing people as opposed to lining their pockets they wouldn't need medical malpractice insurance and the shysters would be out of a job chasing the nasty side effects of prescription drugs.

Do the math... a lot more die form bad doctors and drugs these days then in the past

When it comes to cancer, people can ask Steve Jobs what he thinks of alternative therapies. Oh, no they can't.

In his biography Jobs states his major regret is trying alternative therapies to treat his cancer. This coming from a guy who was 100% into Zen, eastern philosophies, natural medicines, etc.

Obviously, all of our medicines derive from the natural world in one way or another and are then refined or concentrated. To say that no natural remedies work is wrong. But to say that all natural remedies work is equally wrong and potentially dangerous as it was with Steve Jobs. He died earlier than he would have if he had received modern cancer treatments. He thought so, and so do I.

It depends on what you're trying to treat. I wouldn't roll the dice with cancer but then that's just me.

reply to post by TheComte


That cannot be categorically stated. He also, if I recall correctly, said that he had lived a lot longer than expected owing to those natural treatments. Cancer is not an uncomplicated thing. It happens for a number of reasons. You cannot say that his case would have resolved better just like that. Anything could have happened. Anything does happen all the time, to everyone.

My great aunt was diagnosed in the early 1940s with lung cancer. Rightly so, she smoked unfiltered cigarettes from an early age and continued throughout the rest of her life. They told her she had three months to live, probably even with treatment. She went ahead and started treatment but left off after the second one (no idea anymore even what treatment they used!) because it made her feel bad. Said it would be better to be dead than to suffer that. She went home and went on about her life as usual. She had three small children at that time and was fed up with all the fuss everyone was making. She was quite a character. She died finally in 1998. They couldn't explain how she lived so long.

Natural method. Make the changes necessary to heal yourself. Or look outside yourself for those answers. It's always your choice.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


No, you don't recall correctly. He stated he regretted pursuing the alternative treatments.

If you take that to mean that he thought he lived longer with the alternative treatments, then so be it.

reply to post by TheComte


His opinion on his specific situation did not and does not define or validate this issue. His was one opinion.

And the article in question (one of many) can be found here. It was printed in several places prior to his book coming out. Say what you will, this is what was in the press prior to his death.

My great aunt was another opinion. She still smoked right to her dying day. Something else was at play in both of these stories. That is where the answer lies.

reply to post by denynothing

Well yeah, I think so.

Of course here they are talking about manufactured supplements sold as pills, and not the element in your body or food.
Certain vitamins can also be deadly, for example.

However, I'm also not sure whether this was a malfunctioned batch from Asia, or whether it was a wider problem.

I thought people in the US might know more, because that's where it happened.

reply to post by CosmicEgg


I imagine she didn't have cancer originally or that the cancer hadn't matastized and that it was mainly benign. Extreme cellular growth doesn't just stop naturally it has no natural inhibition like your normal cells do. When a cell loses the ability to hedge its own growth, it becomes a cancer cell. This hedge originally is a built in red light in cellular replication I think it is called G1. Normal cells can not pass that point after a certain amount of times due to their telomeres fraying and the cell going through apoptosis. Normal cells also cannot pass this point if the replication is perfect. This means that all parts of the cell, the organelles, must be replicated properly if not then the P53 gene stops this replication. Cancer cells however lack that natural red light, and also have their telomorase gene turned on which means that 1. their telomeres do not fray and 2. they can replicate forever. Which has been proven true hence the famous Henrietta Lack cells. These are cancer cells that have never stopped replicating due to them being cancer cells. So I challenge that in 1940 the diagnosis was actually correct, and no naturally they body can not effectively fight cancer. Which is why the treatments are surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation. Ask any oncologists and they'll tell you the same thing. It is incredibly dangerous to say that naturally you can fight off cancer like your grandma did. Either she didn't truly have full blown cancer that went past stage 0 and was benign. Or God decided it wasn't her time yet.

reply to post by halfoldman


I hadn't heard about that scenario during my DNA/Protein classes. So you may actually be onto to something there. I just have not actually heard of that case.

reply to post by denynothing


You mean like this?

Nothing can be categorically stated about anything to do with disease and its ultimate result. There are more variables than anyone can imagine. Things go the way they go with disease for a number of reasons. Medical science will not find those under a microscope or in a textbook. Those have to do with the body and the soul residing there in.

Whenever you remove yourself from the equation of your health and well-being, there will be a lack of health. That is certain. You have to take that into your own hands. My great aunt simply rejected their prognosis. She simply didn't care what they said. She would die when she decided her time had come and not a minute before.

Science doesn't impress me at all, sir. Not in the slightest. I studied Medical Technology in my youth and since then it's been all downhill for me and science. So many absurd holes in the thinking. So many flawed premises. No heart and no love. You will never heal anyone or anything like that.

reply to post by CosmicEgg

The throat cancer lump lacked cellular anchorage dependence which is why it was able to coughed up. For cells to grow they require anchorage to something, petri dish in a lab, and in her case it was her throat. Now I don't know the total reason for why the cancer was coughed up, but I imagine it had to do with the cell losing its anchorage. You don't get over a cold because you smile and are happy all the time. You get over a cold because the virus runs its course. I'm sorry you don't like science, but I love it. Other than the grace of Jesus Christ it is perhaps the greatest gift he gave to man. I do plan on being a doctor, and while being upbeat about a situation helps you mentally wrap around your situation it does not help your condition. I would get disbarred if I ever told a patient they had a disease lets say something severe like Necrotizing Facitis (yes it's rare I am aware) and told them just go home and be happy and you'll get over it. Believe what you want, whenever I take an anti-biotic for an infection I get better. So thats where my money will go.

reply to post by denynothing


I'm not talking about being "upbeat" about one's health. I'm talking about not handing over responsibility for your wellness to medical science. Doctors are not proficient healers. They do not understand how the body works. They like to think they have a handle on things and the suddenly they wonder why patients aren't responding to their medications/treatments. It happens all the time, more and more. I wish you the best of luck in becoming a doctor. Perhaps you will see then that all you really do is slap a bandage over a symptom and send the patient packing with a huge invoice for their gullibility.

Love science. Love healing. Do it on a $30K top annual salary and I might believe it's for that professed love of science that motivates you.

I had wanted to be a doctor too, back in the day. I wanted to do pathology. I loved being in the lab. Loved it. Then came internships. I saw what it was really like there behind the scenes at several hospitals. I'll tell you what, I have never seen such coldblooded folk as they were. Ugly doesn't begin to describe it. Funny thing was that I was the only one who could see it. That told me all I needed to know.

But things are changing now. I'm being directed back toward healing again. This time it will be doing genuine healing with people who understand their part in it. I already do this to some extent and have met with great success so far. But this is only the start. There are many more of my kind rising now. Clinical healing has had its day. It is being seen for what it is now.

All healing has its place. Allopathy, Homeopathy, Naturopathy, TCM, Tibetan Medicine, Ayurveda, Aromatherapy, Sound Therapy, Art Therapy, Reiki, Energy Healing, Qigong, Taiji, and all the rest are equally beneficial and have outstanding success rates '*when properly implemented*. Practiced well and in the right manner they will cure all that ails us. But one will not heal all things. It's simply not possible. We are not just physical beings. We exist on many levels. Medical science can not comprehend this yet. They must take their place among the ranks and stop dictating "cures" when they simply do not exist in the manner they believe they do.

Health is not about ego. Unfortunately, medical science is virtually pure ego.

reply to post by flipflops


Natural simply means as nature intended....... the person you mentioned consumed natural foods juiced and it cleared up his symptoms. If everybody ate food that was not adulterated by means of iradiation,processing .. pasturising to name but a few ,then we would see more people in better health.You are what you eat..... Natural remedies used in Herbalism are prepared using plants .... Plants used to treat the body can be very effective because they are easily assimulated.In other words.... your immune system recognises them as friend rather than foe.Pharmaceutical drugs on the other hand are geared to treat symptoms temporarily but not cure you. and they come with a piece of paper in very fine print listing all the known possible side effects from a simple itch to even death and can be synthetic or not as nature intended(meaning not 100% plant,which can change the structure of the plants properties entirely).

So if you can grow organic food or even buy organic food .... go for it .... but if not .... a natural remedy whether self prepared or bought if better than modern medicine which has only been around for less that 100 years compared to 1000's of years of plant based treatments.I would love to see doctors testing new drugs on themselves or even people working for drug companies testing them on themselves.... You dont see any of them doing that ......do you !!!