RUSSIA: Attack on Tehran is an Attack on Moscow

reply to post by victor7
If these so called monitors of irans nuclear program are given envelopes filled with $100 bills,they wont see and report anything wrong or unusual,no matter how wrong and unusual what their looking at might actually be...

reply to post by blocula


not true, there should be all sorts of sensors, live video cameras and even reactors programmed to no enrich above certain points. inspectors might not even have to go there, in my comman man opinion atleast.

reply to post by victor7

On the other hand, they seem to have built own reactor at Fordo under a mountain. Wonder if NPT would stop them from enrichment at that place which they built on their own and not bought it from NPT based supplier.

Under NPT regardless of the origin of the reactor a non-nuclear signatory like Iran cannot enrich uranium beyond 20%. Weapons grade is more than 90%.

However if they built their own reactor, they don't need to return it, if they pull out of the NPT.

Wonder why would Iran go through so much pain of sanctions to just get a bomb. They can potentially lose billions if the sanctions are placed and they lose even 1/5th of the buyers of Iranian oil. Such 'hell bent' mindset of national leaders is not right. Again, common person suffers, first from leaders that invite sanctions and if these do not seem to change the minds, then secondly from the air attacks and resulting chaos in society and economy.

I forgot, having nukes will keep the US away from attacking them. But is that worth 10s of billions of oil revenues and people in state of hardship etc.

In 2003 some wondered why Iraq was so bent on hiding their WMD even when an invasion appeared imminent. Iraq couldn't have produced the non-existent WMD and Iran can't scrap its non-existent nuclear weapons program.

And no, Iran having nukes is not going to deter the US from invading Iran if it so chooses, unless Iran also has ICBMs capable of hitting them on their soil. Any targets Iran can reach with her missiles, including Israel, whether nuclear tipped or conventional could be acceptable losses. The US has practically invaded Pakistan, a nuclear power, and there is nothing Pakistan can do except complain. Having nukes means jack against the US unless there is a capability to deliver them to the US soil.

reply to post by blocula

Seriously,why has the usa been so interested and worried about israel for so long?

The USA neither cares nor is worried about Israel. That it pretends to do so is another matter. They pretend to care about and be worried about anything they can fool others into believing they do. Israel's security is one such.

reply to post by blocula

If these so called monitors of irans nuclear program are given envelopes filled with $100 bills,they wont see and report anything wrong or unusual,no matter how wrong and unusual what their looking at might actually be...

What makes you think the USA can't outbid Iran in bribing the monitors to produce the report they want? Iran has to get the dollars by selling oil, US can just print them. Can you guess who win this game of bribing?

reply to post by Observor


I think in 2003 Iraq refused the international monitors from visiting its weapons labs etc. That gave the west a good excuse to jack up the charges and suspicions on them. If Iran has nothing to hide then they should allow the inspectors into their reactors and get done with all the suspicions. A country having nukes is to be feared alot. One of the major fears of the US is that some one may smuggle even a dirty bomb on its soil and do the damage. So a country like Pakistan if chooses can deliver such nuke without the need of ICBM. Because Pak has nukes that is why US has not invaded its territory except for Osama raid. Rest of the drones and other magic is being done with the approval of Pakistan government. I think there are special forces inside Pak too but that is something that they cannot stop due to the stealth nature of spec ops movement capabilities.

Iran should have given a couple of billions in hard currency to North Korea and gotten either enriched nuclear fuel or even a ready made bomb. That would have solved all their problems and fulfilled all the desires. Then leak out the information that Iran has gotten nukes to keep the predators at a distance.

reply to post by Observor


I think US has to worry about Israel due to the immense Jewish influence in the US and global economies. Also having a very strong ally in middle east helps alot in carrying out one's agenda. Furthermore, if Israel is left all on its own and is attacked by several Arabs and other nations and finally is ready to capitulate, then Israel will end up using its 200 nukes. In 1973, they sent a message by openly flaunting the nukes going on the ready to the U2 spy flights conducted by the US. Soon US aid in weapons and other intelligence arrived and the tide of the war turned due to very good training of IDF soldiers and also some intelligence provided by US via satellites regarding areas where to direct the artillery on the Egyptians. Having nukes and the fact that US treats Israel like its adopted kid, keeps the Arabs from attacking and creating war.

The reason Israelis are so adamant against Iran having nukes are two a) Small size of Israel would see it get destroyed by even a small nuke attack b) Iran having nukes will use it as a blackmail. Iran will have Hizbullah in Lebenan create problems and attacks on Israel and threat with using nukes if Israelis attack the try to destroy Hizbulloh like I think they did in 1982. Same blackmail has been used very well by Pakistan on India and also on the US. All along Pak has done terrorism on India and by mid 90s they had Al Queda being hosted in their cities and all the 911 attacks, planning, operations were carried out by AQ in Pakistan. No wonder due to having nukes, US came to Afganishtan but never attacked Pak and worst its soldiers were facing attacks from Taliban groups who were in Pak sancturies just across the border. So for a country to have nukes is a big respect and deterrent vis-a-vis big powers attacking its interests with ease and ill considerations of sorts.

Remember, Turkey has nukes given by the NATO but they cannot use them even if they want to. There are digitial locks on these nukes that make them inoperable if broken into. That is why Israel is not too worried about Turkey having nukes and also until the recent past, Israeli-Turkish relations were fairly cordial.

reply to post by victor7

I think in 2003 Iraq refused the international monitors from visiting its weapons labs etc.

A few months before the invasion, Iraq re-admitted inspectors under the agreement that if they found no WMD, sanctions would be lifted. They were allowed to visit any place they chose, any time they chose and without prior intimation. They found nothing. But they never declared Iraq free of WMD, only that they need more time for "inspections". US decided to go ahead with the invasion and the inspectors left.

That gave the west a good excuse to jack up the charges and suspicions on them.

Not for any human being. Psychopaths are a different matter.

If Iran has nothing to hide then they should allow the inspectors into their reactors and get done with all the suspicions.

Iran has tonnes of things to hide, but nothing that concerns the IAEA under the rules of the NPT. Everything that the IAEA has a right to inspect under the NPT they have always been allowed to.

The IAEA inspectors want to inspect sites "suspected" of being secret nuclear weapons labs by Western intelligence agencies. Iran refuses and they have every right to. Nothing in the NPT states that a country can't have anything kept secret from the IAEA. Iran as a signatory to the NPT has to account for all the known, not imagined or "suspected", nuclear reactors and material and does so everyday.

One of the major fears of the US is that some one may smuggle even a dirty bomb on its soil and do the damage.

There are no limits human imagination, right?

So a country like Pakistan if chooses can deliver such nuke without the need of ICBM.

Dirty bombs are not nukes. They don't need nuclear reactors either. How about stealing nuclear material from some other country and making a dirty bomb? Which country/terrorist group in the world cannot do that? Why has it not happened so far when there are so many terrorist groups bent on blowing up the US?

Because Pak has nukes that is why US has not invaded its territory except for Osama raid. Rest of the drones and other magic is being done with the approval of Pakistan government. I think there are special forces inside Pak too but that is something that they cannot stop due to the stealth nature of spec ops movement capabilities.

US bombed a Pakistani military outpost on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border and killed over 20 soldiers in uniform. They haven't even apologised for it. Tell me again how exactly Pakistan's nukes helped them?

Iran should have given a couple of billions in hard currency to North Korea and gotten either enriched nuclear fuel or even a ready made bomb. That would have solved all their problems and fulfilled all the desires. Then leak out the information that Iran has gotten nukes to keep the predators at a distance.

Iran doesn't care about getting nukes. If they did, they would have pulled out of the NPT long ago when there was no attention on them. Ever since the revolution they had been in the US crosshairs and if they believed nukes would have helped them keep the US at bay they would have done that long ago. They wouldn't have to wait until the West accuses them of making nukes while being a signatory to the NPT.

reply to post by victor7

I think US has to worry about Israel due to the immense Jewish influence in the US and global economies.

Yeah, right! Jews control the US through their "immense influence" in the US and global economies? What, are they going to trash the US and global economies if the US doesn't do as they tell them to regarding Israel? If so why is there a Hamas and Hezbolla? How come the Jews never demanded that the US destroy completely Hamas and Hezbolla who threaten Israel's security. Why is the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia which doesn't even recognise Israel, a great ally of the USA in the ME? How come the USA supplies this country with huge military equipment that could one day be used against Israel?

Yeah, right Jews control the USA!

Also having a very strong ally in middle east helps alot in carrying out one's agenda.

Exactly which US interests in the ME does this "strong ally" serve and how?

Furthermore, if Israel is left all on its own and is attacked by several Arabs and other nations and finally is ready to capitulate, then Israel will end up using its 200 nukes.

Let me see. The last time all the Arab states launched a joint assault against on Israel, they were thouroughly defeated and the neigbours had to agree to recognise and make peace with Israel in order to get the lands they lost to Israel in the war. This was at a time when Israel was importing all its military hardware. Since then Israel has not only become a weapons manufacturer, but exporter while all the Arab states can do is import weapons that others are willing to sell them.

Let us by some miracle these Arab states which don't do anything when Israel bombs "suspected" nuclear weapons sites of fellow Arab states opposed to Israel gang up against Israel and even more miraculously achieve a military superiority using the junk they have been sold over the sophisticated weaponry of Israel and Israel is about to capitulate, why does Israel need to use 200 nukes? Won't 2 nukes one each over Makka and Madina suffice? When their two holiest places are destroyed and no one can ever be a good Muslim again (for Haj, an obligation for every good Muslim, is no longer a possibility with the Kaaba at Makka itself gone) who and what will motivate the Arabs to continue?

In 1973, they sent a message by openly flaunting the nukes going on the ready to the U2 spy flights conducted by the US.

Let me guess, the US and everyone else gets this "message", but the Arabs who will be annihilated by the same nukes don't?

Having nukes and the fact that US treats Israel like its adopted kid, keeps the Arabs from attacking and creating war.

Aren't Israel's nukes sufficient deterrent against an Arab aggression? Exactly what threat, in addition to an already existing possible annihilation, does the status of being the "adopted kid" of US bring to the table?

reply to post by Observor


Regarding Pakistan, killing 20 soldiers and calling it a mistake of communication is one thing and full blown attack is another. US is paying a stiffer price for its NATO supplies via Pak ports as a result. So extra $20-25 million a year for 20 soldiers is a good bargain. Why would US lose 2000 soldiers in 9 years at the cost of $10B a month in Afganistan? Why not just attack Pak and clean up the areas that provide shelter to AQ and Taliban. It is the Pak nukes that are in the equation and are stopping them from invading. Iraqi pilot killed 38 US soldiers in USS Stark attack and it was called a mistake and no body was held accountable. Same here, but Pak nukes have helped them play a wild card of double triple game and all the while getting more than $10B in aid and other goodies.

Stealing nukes or nuclear material is not easy. If it was that easy then mess would have already happened by now. Although it is said that there are nuclear grade material in Russia in warehouses with only two padlocks and few drunk and poor soldiers on guard. In 1995, Chechens called the Russian police and told them the location of a suitcase full of some radioactive material in Moscow. So these news items are either not true or some sort of disinformation etc. Btw, US has openly said that if there is a nuke attack on its soil then the country of origination will be held responsible for the attack. So nuclear nations have to keep their goodies well locked and protected from non military buyers.

Iran does care about getting nukes? They requested and got some help from Pak network and even some rods etc. until they were exposed. This network was also helping Libya at some point. As to why they did not get ready made nukes from NK or Pak, it is because most probably they could not as these parties refused.
There is also a big watch on the items for sale in world markets which can be used to make nuclear weapons or reactors etc. Even dual purpose tools are scrutinized for export.

End of it all, US still does not want to mess with a regime or country that has nukes so Iranians really want them. Why would they be under harsh economic sanctions since 1990s just for the purpose of secrecy and lose 10s of billions each single year and have their people in misery and armed forces with pretty much nothing to paly with. I think Iran Air Force has barely 120 aircrafts, which means they have no air force vis-a-vis a semi-major power.

reply to post by Observor


US is pals with Saudi in order to have a stable oil supplier and in return sell them highly expensive advanced weapons for shiekhs to look at and feel good and giddy about.

Regarding Israel as a ally, it was very useful during the Cold War times, may be not that much now.

Regarding bombing Mecca and Medina, I do not think that is stopping any group of Arab nations from launching attack on Israel. It is the power and protection from both IDF and US, that keeps Israel's enemies from getting naughty.

Regarding Hamas and Hizbullah, they are also on the chopping block. US is taking it one country at a time. Lebenan is one of the 7 nations that are targeted for regime change in the ME.

reply to post by Observor


Iran does REALLY want the nukes............

stratrisks.com...

Originally posted by Observor
reply to post by victor7

 

On the other hand, they seem to have built own reactor at Fordo under a mountain. Wonder if NPT would stop them from enrichment at that place which they built on their own and not bought it from NPT based supplier.

Under NPT regardless of the origin of the reactor a non-nuclear signatory like Iran cannot enrich uranium beyond 20%. Weapons grade is more than 90%.

However if they built their own reactor, they don't need to return it, if they pull out of the NPT.

Wonder why would Iran go through so much pain of sanctions to just get a bomb. They can potentially lose billions if the sanctions are placed and they lose even 1/5th of the buyers of Iranian oil. Such 'hell bent' mindset of national leaders is not right. Again, common person suffers, first from leaders that invite sanctions and if these do not seem to change the minds, then secondly from the air attacks and resulting chaos in society and economy.

I forgot, having nukes will keep the US away from attacking them. But is that worth 10s of billions of oil revenues and people in state of hardship etc.

In 2003 some wondered why Iraq was so bent on hiding their WMD even when an invasion appeared imminent. Iraq couldn't have produced the non-existent WMD and Iran can't scrap its non-existent nuclear weapons program.

And no, Iran having nukes is not going to deter the US from invading Iran if it so chooses, unless Iran also has ICBMs capable of hitting them on their soil. Any targets Iran can reach with her missiles, including Israel, whether nuclear tipped or conventional could be acceptable losses. The US has practically invaded Pakistan, a nuclear power, and there is nothing Pakistan can do except complain. Having nukes means jack against the US unless there is a capability to deliver them to the US soil.

Observor...YOU HAVE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! The United States has no fear of a Country that has Nukes and is stable. It also has no fear of retaliation by a Nuclear Armed Nation without sufficient delivery systems...and very soon...within 18 to 36 months...even a country with numerous ICBM's will not be an issue either because of the massive ABM system that is almost complete reguardless what the media or Pentagon tells you.

What the U.S. does fear is Iran or North Korea...selling a simple A-Bomb wich any kid at MIT could build in his or her sleep...it would be archaic but it could be small enough to get into a truck....drive the thing into Israel or any large Oil shipping or LNG area and detonate. It would be a small blast...2 to 5 Kilotons but that would be enough to poison a good size area of importance.

If this happens...the U.S. would use new Non-Nuclear Weapons to disable the country responsible....if it is targeted at a Civilian Area....ALL BETS ARE OFF! Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity
Seems to me that the USA only roughs up countries that dont have nuclear weapons and the ones that do,we feed them lots of money,like pakistan for instance and the only reason there has'nt been a world war three yet is because of nuclear weapons.If there were no nuclear weapons,world war three probably would have started in and around cuba in 1962 with the USA fighting sea battles against the russians...

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Seems to me that the USA only roughs up countries that dont have nuclear weapons and the ones that do,we feed them lots of money,like pakistan for instance and the only reason there has'nt been a world war three yet is because of nuclear weapons.If there were no nuclear weapons,world war three probably would have started in and around cuba in 1962 with the USA fighting sea battles against the russians...

edit on 25-1-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)

You do realize that after the collapse of the Soviet Union...Russia only trusted America with doing the proper removal and disposal of THOUSANDS of Nuclear Warheads and Missles that were in many former Soviet Era States. Russia called the U.S. up and said...We have a Problem!

Neither side wanted these countries to keep the nukes so the U.S. went in and took them apart and destroyed them.

As far as Pakistan or India are concerned...the U.S. does what it wishes in Pakistan and even though this is agreed upon by the officials...the media stories told to the people there condem the U.S....but we are still there operating. India...is more stable and can become a good trading partner...but if you think for one moment that the U.S. Military is worried about any attack upon the U.S. by either of these two countries....NO WAY!

Split Infinity

I hope Iran doesn't go around wrecking havoc but it is sure looking like they will.

Ya, all is nothing but warm welcomes as stalin was put into office after Nicholas II and his entire family was killed. so this is nothing but empty threats, and Russia will do nothing as they have a central banking system in place with the rothschilds, and their subsidiaries.

Lol, kinda of like saying hey, i am going to war with my brother

Iran, N Korea, and shucks Libya where the only nation-states without a central bank. I take that back. Iran-N korea

so guess what Iran your own your own, it's nothing but a game


And you Aryians just lost

Originally posted by allprowolfy
Ya, all is nothing but warm welcomes as stalin was put into office after Nicholas II and his entire family was killed. so this is nothing but empty threats, and Russia will do nothing as they have a central banking system in place with the rothschilds, and their subsidiaries.

Lol, kinda of like saying hey, i am going to war with my brother

Brothers fought against brothers and killed each other during the american civil war...

Originally posted by blocula

Originally posted by allprowolfy
Ya, all is nothing but warm welcomes as stalin was put into office after Nicholas II and his entire family was killed. so this is nothing but empty threats, and Russia will do nothing as they have a central banking system in place with the rothschilds, and their subsidiaries.

Lol, kinda of like saying hey, i am going to war with my brother

Brothers fought against brothers and killed each other during the american civil war...

Thanks for quoting me, as brothers did not have a central banking system in place at that time, as we do now. as Nathan Rothschild said,""I care not what puppet is placed on
the throne of England to rule the Empire, ...
The man that controls Britain's money
supply controls the British Empire.
And I control the money supply."


Thus, america, Israel will kill Iran and give her a central banking system.

It will happen unless Iran has more power, than we know

This is not a joking matter, I might add

reply to post by blocula


Don't worry, the mulato prince in the white house will not attack Iran until the elections are over in november. now if iran wants to screw its own self then it will go ahead and attack us ships in gulf and that would not make any sense. also israel can get restless and go ahead with their own attack and really spoil their relations with the americans. i think we should be able to see a peaceful 2012 after all.