Heretics, Schismatics and Lothsome Apostates, repent from your offenses against Religion and the Unity of the Church, and withdraw now from your contumacy! Submit to the jurisdiction entrusted to the Latin Church by Christ!

Originally posted by GessoI
Heretics, Schismatics and Lothsome Apostates, repent from your offenses against Religion and the Unity of the Church, and withdraw now from your contumacy! Submit to the jurisdiction entrusted to the Latin Church by Christ!

No.

I have lived by a motto that has served me well:

"Never trust anyone who provides no proof and says Just trust me on this."

I believe this motto works here too.

Originally posted by Ezekial
I have lived by a motto that has served me well:

"Never trust anyone who provides no proof and says Just trust me on this."

I believe this motto works here too.

sounds like your problem is a trust issue. do you question your girlfriend/wife about her cheating on you, or do you just trust her? and if you ask her if she is and she says no, do you say prove it?

Well, here's an example I believe would lead well to some of you out there. You and your partner find out you have a kid. Well, the kid is born one day and just for his first year you talk to him, talk and talk and talk his head off for maybe the first 3-4 months then slowly stop until it's nill. You never talk to him ever again, pardon me him or her.

People will call you a bad father, but God still remains a good father? You never feel that God abandoned you? Would you leave your freshly born child to fend for himself? When you grew up would you love your dad even though he left you behind? In a sense, God has turned his back on this planet the very day his Son died. Do we not need him since we are automatically forgiven since Jesus died?

That's just an example of the daily arguements I struggle to get past to believe in something greater then ourselves. I believe there is something better out there just because of very few key events in my life. I think there is something that challenges you your whole life. You are given what you can take, when you pass, you are given more to try and take that. Some don't believe because of Science which I don't blame them at all. Some days I don't believe, some days I do believe. It's a pure struggle for me personally. Somedays chance happens. Royal Flushes happen, people when the lottery. Things happen every day sometimes that can seem Statistically impossible yet, they still happen. That's not to say the Universe could have just been one hell of a roll on a pair of dice?

You seem to be having a difficult time understanding that yours is not the only truth. Your truth is your truth and it works for you. My truth is my truth and it works for me. Your truth is no better than mine.

There is only one truth. Truth is not formulated per person.

But God still loves me? And God loves me even why I am sent into the fires of hell to be tortured for all eternity? None of it makes ANY sense. I think most likely, over the centuries, there has been some Machiavellian tampering with the Bible and other Holy Literature.

Not only that, but since God created all there is, if one goes to hell then he/she was supposed to go there right from the start. It was God's will.

People are still into religion because:

1) fear of hell
2) fear of the unknown
3) fear of death

Generally, fear it's a basic instinct of humans because they know that they are going to die.

Humans not only believe in god, but they also believe in many other things. In fact, our whole life is based on myths. Shattering those myths and seeing truth as it is is way hard. No one has ever managed it, no one will ever manage it.

Originally posted by masterp

You seem to be having a difficult time understanding that yours is not the only truth. Your truth is your truth and it works for you. My truth is my truth and it works for me. Your truth is no better than mine.

There is only one truth. Truth is not formulated per person.

I agree that there is only one truth, but only a very few KNOW what that truth is. My truth might be wrong and his truth might be wrong and your truth might be wrong, but at this point, our individual truths are our truths.

My truths/beliefs will likely change over time as I continue to learn. At least I hope so.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555

Originally posted by Ezekial
I have lived by a motto that has served me well:

"Never trust anyone who provides no proof and says Just trust me on this."

I believe this motto works here too.

sounds like your problem is a trust issue. do you question your girlfriend/wife about her cheating on you, or do you just trust her? and if you ask her if she is and she says no, do you say prove it?

Well, there is a reason I would trust my girlfriend/wife.... I know that she exists! If "god" came down to us(not just to me, after all, I could be insane), proved to us his omnipotence and infalibility, them maybe I'd have faith in him. Unfortunately, "god" has been too busy to make a public appearance lately! lol

I have to agree with wondering how you can believe in an invisible being. If you look logically at the situation, you have to wonder about the whole thing, how can you trust in a book written by a person ages ago, do you think that at some point in the future, many ages from now, they are going to be worshipping the almighty Harry Potter? or as a closer reference, what's to stop me from writing the same book now, applying it the same way and have some future people believe that i am a mesiah, because I will make them think that some of them are better than others and those people will go to a good place and the rest will go to a bad place, hmmmmmmm.

I think religion should only be a matter of faith, you believe what is true for you, I personally have explored many different religions, and have yet to find one that completely speaks to me, and that is fine, i think that if there is an all powerful force, then maybe we are not meant to truely know it, just a thought

People 'believe' in something without proof because they get something out of it. That is as simple as I can put it.

What do people get from believing in an unproven, conscious god figure? A sense that their lives have purpose, a caring father figure, the idea that there is justice and reason to the world, a scapegoat, the illeviation of fear of the unknown, the feeling that he/she is a good person, etc.

Of course this god figure really has nothing to do with these feelings whether it exists or not. It is just used to convince (trick) the individual into feeling the ways that I have described because it is positive to the his/her reality and self image. Hence they get something worth while out of the believe in an unproven theory/person/etc.

people say God doesn't love you because he will send you to hell. If you bought a dog who did nothing but pee and poop all over the house everyday everytime he had to go out for the rest of his life. Would you give him a way, even though you love him? Well God allows you to poop and pee as many times as you want, as long as you eventually find him. Seems like that is more generousity than we can ever understand. And the truth thing, i wasn't referring to my truth, i was refering to your truth. But i also want to add this, just make sure that this "truth" you find is perfect for you, don't just settle

okay using your dog analagy

I have this dog that poops and pees all over my house all day. I cant stand this dog. I must get rid of him. There is only one other family that will take my dog. This family beats and abuses their animals. Never feeds them. I would rather keep the dog than give him away to someone who will treat him like the poope he leaves on my carpet.

I dont get why God would say

"Thatoneguy, you didnt believe in me. I offered you no proof of my existence. My word, through the Bible, had many holes, and yet you failed to hold your faith. I love you my child. I will always love you. Due to your inability to believe, your skeptic personality in which I granted you, I cannot let you through the pearly gates. I hate to see you go to hell, but I am powerless to stop it"

God the Father is invisible, but not voiceless.

These are only a small quotient as to why I have my invisible friend.

**********************************************************

Almost every mammal I've seen has looked me in the eye, because my invisible friend created them beside me.

I have studied ancient civilizations that buried their dead and left gifts for their invisible friend.

I am living well because I asked my invisible friend for help while a man was kicking me in the head after I was already unconscious and hemorhaging in the brain. Reports say I was screaming my invisible friend's name as the man ran from my home. He was apprehended in twenty minutes.

I am living well because my invisible friend's voice was the only voice I could hear after I lost two children in one year's time. I remained mute, except to my best friend.


I am living well because my best friend was there for me when I was wheeled into the operating room to remove a lymphatic tumor that had been making me sick since I was a child, He will continue to be there for me when I have a tumor removed from a bone in my leg.

I am living well because I gave up a life of glutony for a life of simplicity, as my best friend suggested I could do. I gave up a large salary and equity for a life, and mentality, of peace. My future children will be raised in a safe, sane, and accepting environment.
************************************************************
This is not a pity pot, it's just the truth. I won't say my invisible friend's name, because most of us call him or her by our own choosing. I just love how having an invisible friend p!$$e$ off the spiritually blind. Live your life to your choosing. I personally did not ask you to live mine, so why complain about it?

Dot.

Fear!

Of the unknown

It is the most powerful instinct we have and it is at the core of most irrational things we do.

sucks to be human.

Live your life to your choosing. I personally did not ask you to live mine

I thank you for that. But I know a lot of Christians. They love to convert. They think it is their duty to make everyone in the world become a christian. I know someone who has converted to islam and their family has tried their hardest to get them to go the other way. They dont show any repsect for another person. They think, they believe they are doing whats right with no regards to the other persons feelings.


[edit on 18-9-2004 by Thatoneguy]

I think that people adopt whatever religious beliefs they do because we don't want to believe that our existence is just an accident of nature. We are intelligent beings (or at least most of us are), and we cannot accept that we don't have some higher purpose than just eating, breathing, breeding, etc. like all the other "animals" on this planet. Since we have an intellect, we intellectually construct a useful framework to explain our own existence.

I personally have my own beliefs and theories regarding spirituality, and they don't match up with any "organized" religion's ideas, but I'm comfortable with them (I've arrived at them through many years of experience and contemplation) and don't plan to discuss them or impose them upon anyone else. They reconcile my evolution from a blob of protoplasm with a higher existence/being. I have no proof, just logical thought processes and personal spiritual experiences.

I will say this much, though....I don't think there's a big bearded guy in white robes sitting up in the sky with a bunch of people with wings flying around.

Religious belief IS faith....the belief in that which you can never prove, but which you know in your heart you must follow.

BTW, anyone who wants to join SgtNFuryISM is encouraged to sell all their possessions, donate the proceeds to me, send all their women to live at my commune, etc., etc.

Originally posted by SgtNFury
I think that people adopt whatever religious beliefs they do because we don't want to believe that our existence is just an accident of nature. We are intelligent beings (or at least most of us are), and we cannot accept that we don't have some higher purpose than just eating, breathing, breeding, etc. like all the other "animals" on this planet. Since we have an intellect, we intellectually construct a useful framework to explain our own existence.

I personally have my own beliefs and theories regarding spirituality, and they don't match up with any "organized" religion's ideas, but I'm comfortable with them (I've arrived at them through many years of experience and contemplation) and don't plan to discuss them or impose them upon anyone else. They reconcile my evolution from a blob of protoplasm with a higher existence/being. I have no proof, just logical thought processes and personal spiritual experiences.

I could not have said it better myself.

I think, therefore I am better that a cow.


(or any other creature!)

Speaking on Voiceless Gods, i believe that people have faith in order to get through life. You say you pray thats fine. But dont tell me to do it because its the right thing to do. I have people around my area that are hardcore on this stuff. I live in the Bible Belt in southern Illinois. Agnostic/Athiest in the midst of them all. Struggling i tells ya. But it is unreal how pushy people can be to make you believe what they think is the right thing. I was just in Barnes and Noble last night and was looking for specific books on Athiesm Agnostisim or the likes. But as i looked all i found was an entire row i mean entire area devoted strickly to Christianity, and a minor couple of shleves of Muslim, Budah, Jewish, or the like. It was rather unsettling to see such a blatent over exposure and under exposure. I understand that Christianity is a dominant religion in our country today but dont sell other religions short because those are not followed upon with the force of those such as Christianity.

(Im not knocking religions just how they are used, I am not trying to insult anyone for what they believe in. I dont however appreciate those who use religion as reasoning to "Convert" me or say "I Need Jesus" or others of the sort. I dont appreciate those who say im right and your wrong. So again i say I am not downing religions, all are right in their own form and fashion. If it gets you through the day then it is what is right for you.)