well is me saying these things to you a coincidence? is it a coincidence that i decided to listen to 2 more songs after i said i wouldn't? i guess if you wanna say that you finding that you like a certain burger that a place makes is the same as a preacher planning a cermon on the same day i asked for a sign on a relationship, well then you are mistaken. Whether or not it was a coincidence isn't what i am talking about, im just saying you made a very bad analogy. Call it a coincidence if you must, but i have now provided you with 2 very great examples, and you have turned them down. How about when i was 3 i was put into the drier by my affectionate older brother, he turned it on, after telling me it would be fun, keep in mind he is 5 or 6. I go spinning, and am crying then i see myself go through the back of the drier and i am in this white area with a man whom i ask "are you santa" he replies "yes" and then sends me back to find my faith later on in life. If he woulda said no and told me the truth don't you think that woulda taken the whole finding God yourself out of it? Wouldn't that be playing favorites? But he didn't he said he was Santa Claus.

now you will probably make up some lame excuse as to what this was or how this happened. You may even claim that i am lying, but i am not. Yet you may even believe in Aliens, and possibly even get upset at the government coming up with lame excuses, venus expelling gas or what not. Well in this case YOU are the government. I am not judging you, im sorry if this is coming off as a personal attack, i am just telling you before it happens what will be said, and what is said is trying to debunk God, yet your attempts fall on def ears, because God does love us, and wants you to see him too. Maybe that was my purpose today, to give you a message. Now i have given you 3 examples of how God has personally affected me, each one was a greater example of God's existance, i am done giving you examples, look for them yourself, or listen to mine. All we can do is listen to the claims and decide what is really true.

I am a happily waiting to be proved wrong agnostic.

I was raised Roman Catholic and personally cannot stand the hipocracy I see there.
Opulent churches and the Vatican.... all based on a man who was the humble son of a carpenter that did not have a pot to piss in for his whole life..... makes my blood boil. I think Jesus would have immediately sold the Vatican and would have given all the money to the poor and less fortunate.

While there might be a God, I still think alot of religion or faith based believes were born out our lack of understanding of the world around us. That being said, I do like alot of the basic messages that most religions contain. ie. Be good to your family and neighbors, work hard, do not steal, do not kill etc.

But regardless, we are all going to find out in the end if there is a God.


read my sig.....




[edit on 15-9-2004 by Facefirst]

i personally do believe you have to find out yourself what is truth, i dont agree with the roman catholics, which is why i said go to a non-denomination church, which is the furthest thing of the christian "sects" to the hypocrisy. It will give you the best message without the bs, it may not be all there, but it is trying.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
well is me saying these things to you a coincidence? is it a coincidence that i decided to listen to 2 more songs after i said i wouldn't? i guess if you wanna say that you finding that you like a certain burger that a place makes is the same as a preacher planning a cermon on the same day i asked for a sign on a relationship, well then you are mistaken. Whether or not it was a coincidence isn't what i am talking about, im just saying you made a very bad analogy. Call it a coincidence if you must, but i have now provided you with 2 very great examples, and you have turned them down. How about when i was 3 i was put into the drier by my affectionate older brother, he turned it on, after telling me it would be fun, keep in mind he is 5 or 6. I go spinning, and am crying then i see myself go through the back of the drier and i am in this white area with a man whom i ask "are you santa" he replies "yes" and then sends me back to find my faith later on in life. If he woulda said no and told me the truth don't you think that woulda taken the whole finding God yourself out of it? Wouldn't that be playing favorites? But he didn't he said he was Santa Claus.

now you will probably make up some lame excuse as to what this was or how this happened. You may even claim that i am lying, but i am not. Yet you may even believe in Aliens, and possibly even get upset at the government coming up with lame excuses, venus expelling gas or what not. Well in this case YOU are the government. I am not judging you, im sorry if this is coming off as a personal attack, i am just telling you before it happens what will be said, and what is said is trying to debunk God, yet your attempts fall on def ears, because God does love us, and wants you to see him too. Maybe that was my purpose today, to give you a message. Now i have given you 3 examples of how God has personally affected me, each one was a greater example of God's existance, i am done giving you examples, look for them yourself, or listen to mine. All we can do is listen to the claims and decide what is really true.

I'm saying I want proof given to me FROM the 'god' not a damn story from another person.

Ryanp5555,

You seem to be having a difficult time understanding that yours is not the only truth. Your truth is your truth and it works for you. My truth is my truth and it works for me. Your truth is no better than mine.

Your story about the guy letting you in after not letting you in is a lovely story. Really it is. A similar thing happens to me now and then, but most of the time I ask my late mother for help. You may not belive this, but it's true.

The people with the most closed minds are those who are convinced that they have open minds.

Your path is your path. My path in my path. It's how you navigate the path you choose and respecting the paths of others that counts.

ok, this might be going slightly off topic here... but with the sentiments expressed by ezekial here... that he wants to see "god" on the news doing some great miracle etc. At a guess i would say that many people in the world would only believe that there is a God in Heaven if he came down and performed miracles.

In the book of Revelation it says, speaking of the beast: "One of the Beast's heads looked as if it had been struck a deathblow, and then healed. The whole earth was agog, gaping at the Beast."

I guess the simple fact is that the bible prophesies that many people will think that the beast is God, just because it is something they can see... by far an easier road to belief in anything than by faith.

Believe in something, or you will fall for anything.

Reflector

If you have doubts in God then stop believing.. According to the bible you have to believe 110% think about God all the time and NEVER question him. If you don't then he sends to straight to hell... Just remember though, he loves you.

"Invisible voiceless gods! Why does modern man still believe?"
Quite simple:
Because when he's a kid his parents tell him to do so

people say God doesn't love you because he will send you to hell. If you bought a dog who did nothing but pee and poop all over the house everyday everytime he had to go out for the rest of his life. Would you give him a way, even though you love him? Well God allows you to poop and pee as many times as you want, as long as you eventually find him. Seems like that is more generousity than we can ever understand. And the truth thing, i wasn't referring to my truth, i was refering to your truth. But i also want to add this, just make sure that this "truth" you find is perfect for you, don't just settle

Originally posted by Thatoneguy
If you have doubts in God then stop believing.. According to the bible you have to believe 110% think about God all the time and NEVER question him. If you don't then he sends to straight to hell... Just remember though, he loves you.

Curious, would you happen to have the verses on hand to back up this claim?

Originally posted by Thatoneguy
If you have doubts in God then stop believing.. According to the bible you have to believe 110% think about God all the time and NEVER question him. If you don't then he sends to straight to hell... Just remember though, he loves you.

I agree to some extent.

I do not believe in the Christian concept of "Original Sin."
The idea that an individual is already damned by an act that they had absolutely no control over makes no logical sense to me.

But God still loves me? And God loves me even why I am sent into the fires of hell to be tortured for all eternity? None of it makes ANY sense. I think most likely, over the centuries, there has been some Machiavellian tampering with the Bible and other Holy Literature.

Originally posted by Facefirst

Originally posted by Thatoneguy
If you have doubts in God then stop believing.. According to the bible you have to believe 110% think about God all the time and NEVER question him. If you don't then he sends to straight to hell... Just remember though, he loves you.

I agree to some extent.

I do not believe in the Christian concept of "Original Sin."
The idea that an individual is already damned by an act that they had absolutely no control over makes no logical sense to me.

But God still loves me? And God loves me even why I am sent into the fires of hell to be tortured for all eternity? None of it makes ANY sense. I think most likely, over the centuries, there has been some Machiavellian tampering with the Bible and other Holy Literature.

Let's say you have a child that constantly defies you, and is over all disobedient and out of control. What do you do? Personally, I would give him the boot to try and go about life, since he won't respect the ones that brought him into this world. Would I still love the child? Of course, but my pride and need to be respected would ultimately result in the kid being left to fend for himself.

Originally posted by dezlil

Let's say you have a child that constantly defies you, and is over all disobedient and out of control. What do you do? Personally, I would give him the boot to try and go about life, since he won't respect the ones that brought him into this world. Would I still love the child? Of course, but my pride and need to be respected would ultimately result in the kid being left to fend for himself.

That does not make sense to me.

Letting a kid go is one thing. That person still has choices and options. Placing someone in the burning fires of hell for all of eternity is a basically a permanent jail and torture sentence.

If God loves me, it would not throw me into a pit of fire to suffer after I die.

I also think if there is an omnipotent force in the universe, it would be above things like "Pride."

[edit on 15-9-2004 by Facefirst]

You still have a choice as well, according to the Bible. I'm not advocating Christianity or anything but I have studied it as well as other religions and I was raised going to church. That being said, my question is why would one choose to go against (a)God if he somewhat believed that this would damn him to a "fiery pit". Read the Bible for a better understanding, God is a very prideful being. How could an omnipotent being not be?

[edit on 15-9-2004 by dezlil]

Originally posted by dezlil
You still have a choice as well, according to the Bible. I'm not advocating Christianity or anything but I have studied it as well as other religions and I was raised going to church. That being said, my question is why would one choose to go against (a)God if he somewhat believed that this would damn him to a "fiery pit". Read the Bible for a better understanding, God is a very prideful being. How could an omnipotent being not be?

[edit on 15-9-2004 by dezlil]

Why would God damn me to an eternity of torture? What would I learn from that? No chance of redemption there. As I said, I think alot of our ideas of a greater being are based on our knowledge(and lack there of) our surroundings. I also still think there has been some Machiavellian "Touch-ups" made to the Bible over the past two millenia.

These are all feelings that I have felt sometime or another. And there are answers out there just keep looking and when I say that don't so much look at anyone else just look deep inside yourself and you will find what you are looking for.

I challenge each of you that do not believe in anything. Or belive but have doubts about anything ... to go to a pentecostal church where you walk in the door you can feel something different about it . I know it sounds far off .... but when I was little I was about 14 I was deep in missions and I could actually have talks with god ... it was kinda wild .. and it wasn't audible or anything but ... I mean .. I felt as if something was there helping me I still do. But I do not have the passion to have him close to me anymore. It is wild ... but I garuntee open up your heart and try to receive something from god and you can't be asking him for something but he will reveal something in your life or put some kinda drive back into your life I promise. Just sit there and think. I am not sure if it is the environment you are in or what ? But praising and singing to god is the most tranqual state I have ever experience ... even more tranqual than smokin the ganjua ..

Originally posted by bet555
These are all feelings that I have felt sometime or another. And there are answers out there just keep looking and when I say that don't so much look at anyone else just look deep inside yourself and you will find what you are looking for.
I am not sure if it is the environment you are in or what ? But praising and singing to god is the most tranqual state I have ever experience ... even more tranqual than smokin the ganjua ..

If you find happiness through worship, fine. I have absolutely no problem with that. do have a problem with all of the horrors that have been carried out through the years in the name of religion.

The last true Children of God are the people like the stone age natives living in Papua New Guinea. They are truly one in nature. (I am paraphrasing a letter by Reagan)

Are they going to hell because they don't know who Jesus is? They wake up in a fiery pit after they die because they never heard of Jesus? I don't believe that for a second.

[edit on 15-9-2004 by Facefirst]

no God judges people who have never heard of Jesus on a different scale.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
no God judges people who have never heard of Jesus on a different scale.

Or what about people who never heard of Mohammed?

I don't think God Judges. I think God would be above that. I don't believe that vengeful, angry, jealous portrayal of God for one second.

Again, if God loves me, then why would it throw me in a pit of fire for all of eternity? If there is a hell, I think it is a lot of the Priests who should be worried......

There are a couple of reasons that people still believe in a "god"...
1. Religion is drilled into people from a young age. If you have been told something is true every day of your life since birth, then you probably wont challenge or question it. The vast majority of people dont choose their religion based on its merits, but on the fact that their parents and peers believed in it.
2. Most people arent intelligent enough, or dont care enough about educating themselves, to question their religion. Many cant grasp some of the more abstract scientific ideas(evolution, etc) and just accept the easiest explanation, "God".
3. Fear. Many people are afraid of "going to hell".
4. They WANT to believe in a higher power. People want to believe that they have a higher purpose, and that their life is meaningful. It doesnt matter whether the idea of a "god" is illogical, they just want to feel good.