Is the "Holy Spirit" in Reality a Demon?

Originally posted by 547000

Did you ask God to show you the truth or just assumed what you found is the truth?

Whoa....these verses are from the bible.
Are you saying some of the stuff in the bible is not the truth?

reply to post by vogon42


Anyone can twist the bible to say what they want, which is how he can come to his absurd theory that God is a dragon. But if you throw away every belief and presumption and open your heart to God He will reveal the truth. The problem is, despite myself saying this, the people who read and hate Christianity will not do so, either because they don't believe God will do that, or they don't want to know the truth but want to confirm their own beliefs. I think only suffering in this world will make people throw down the gauntlet of pride and seek God sincerely. I say this as an ex-atheist.

inb4utroll

reply to post by 547000


I don't really see how that answered the question about your opinion of these particular verses in the bible.

Your post prior to this seemed to suggest you did not view these parts of the bible as the truth.

When asked about it, you seem to deflect the question with "twisting words" and "throwing down gauntlets".

My question is about your view on these verses perhaps not being the truth. Can you clarify?

The Trinity
The teaching of Mystic Christianity, regarding the Holy Ghost, may be summed up by the great general
statement that: The Holy Ghost is the Absolute in its phase of Manifestation, as compared to its phase of
Unmanifestation--Manifest Being as compared with Unmanifest Being--God Create as compared with God
Uncreate--God acting as the Creative Principle as compared to God as The Absolute Being.

And as God as immanent in all life Jesus the son would also be part of the above (so would we).

Sourceconsciouslivingfoundation.org...
read chapter starting on pg 68, dont worry its only a few pages. Save it and load it if you need to zoom in.

reply to post by MoeSantana


This is an important link, thanks for posting it!!
I have bookmarked it, and look forward to reading it... I only wish those followers of "Christian" religions of nowadays would do the same without getting all trembly and throwing a fit. Sadly, many of them seem afraid to even look at such important resources, simply because they are offered by oriental thinkers and thus considered 'pagan blasphemies.'
Namaste

I appreciate you taking the time to atleast check it out. If you like the author, download and save the yogi ramacharaka books, and the ones he put out under his name William Walker Atkinson. He had a few psuedonyms like theron q dumont as well. You can find the majority of his books free in pdfs. I say download a bunch in case they are taken down. Hatha (body), Raja (mind), and Gnani (wisdon/knowledge) yoga, 14 lessons yogi philosophy, advanced yogi philosophy, and science of breath I espeially reccomend, and are easy to to find with right search terms.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by MoeSantana

 

This is an important link, thanks for posting it!!
I have bookmarked it, and look forward to reading it... I only wish those followers of "Christian" religions of nowadays would do the same without getting all trembly and throwing a fit. Sadly, many of them seem afraid to even look at such important resources, simply because they are offered by oriental thinkers and thus considered 'pagan blasphemies.'
Namaste

There you go..again.. with the projecting your own thoughts.

I am not all 'trembly and throwing a fit"..and I'm honestly starting to think that may be what you do wildtimes.. in your melodramatic way.

Maybe you were given a sign by Padre Pio or another of the saints, and it has you all in a stir deep down?

Rest assured I have no need to get all trembly and throw a fit, when calm meditative prayer is all I need..and I know who to pray to and who to pray with .. in my heart.

The rosary is a wonderful form of meditation and pray, and it focuses totally on the life of Christ, as well as few meditations on His mother.

Why would Christians who know where truth and peace lay, look any where else for it?

Its like having all the real diamonds.. and someone coming over and saying.. wow..you need to grab these cubic zircon as.. they are so awesome...and the best thing ever.

Thanks ..but I'll stick with the real diamonds.

I find it odd that you urge us to read links wildtimes..but when I do and find all the falsities in them.. like your "what Jesus said" links.. you do a that two step back saying.." oh I just googled the words of Jesus, and that site came up.. and I didn't read all of it, and don't agree with all of it.."..or something to that extent.


You said "these are the words of Jesus I live by"... quote one page of a site you admit just recently googling.. then you back off and say its words you just recently found, when I challenge you on the authenticity of it...and also prove quite blatantly how you do not live by the teachings you quoted at all... then you do a double take on the whole site....denying you agree with it all.. and claiming you just recently googled what are the words of Christ.

Then you have the nerve to call us Christians "trembling and throwing a fit" because we don't download all this crap you want us to.. when I have already proven the stuff you asked me to read as being false and not of Jesus.

I honestly can see quite clearly now.. that something has happened to make you 'trembly and throwing a fit..".. and I'm not sure what it was but I'm sure it was a sign ..hmmm..interesting.

reply to post by gabby2011

here you go..again.. with the projecting your own thoughts.

!!!
What on earth makes you think I was talking specifically about you? Wow.

I should report this attack to the mods, but I won't. Whatever, gabby....wtf ever.

In fact, I read through a great deal of the consciouslivingfoundation.org site earlier today...some very interesting material about Jesus' early life, John the Baptist, their mutual 'occult' training...and the belief among the mystics that he was a soul born without having any negative karma attached; an actual 'virgin soul' sent directly from the Divine, who was surprised at his own spiritual revelations.

Was I wondering how you would take it, to read that John was an Eastern Occult mystic, who also studied in the East, and his cousin Jesus then later was trained in the same way? Yes, I was.

Was I thinking, "wonder how gabby2011 would react if she read about how the '3 Wise Men from the East' were Occultist leaders who saw an astronomical sign and followed it and didn't find the baby Jesus until he was about a year or so old, and recognized him as the next 'Dalai Lama'!" (to put it simply). Yep. Sure was!

Did I consider that perhaps Jesus was an completely enlightened soul, not subject to the previous incarnations and karmic burdens of 'regular souls'? Yep. Actually, pretty well convinced!

Did I say to myself, 'Self, here you go! A text that talks precisely about how Jesus got separated from his parents Joseph and Mary at the Passover feast when he was thirteen, and they went looking for him frantically, and found him speaking with the wisest elders (a shockingly impertinent act all by itself) and the elders were listening to him as the One! I wonder what the ATS Christians would say about this!' You bet I did.

Facts are facts, gabby. John the Baptist was a Mystic Occult student. Jesus was eventually reunited with his parents, and the Magi, the wisemen of the East, came to the family and said, 'Let us take him to learn...he is a born Master of the mysteries, and we've been waiting for him forever'.

A book that says Jesus was not 'reincarnated' into his old body, but his reappearance to his followers was an Astral Spirit who chose to appear as touchable flesh, and then he 'disappeared' into his spiritual self.

Lay off me, gabby. I'm weary of your diatribes and accusations.

reply to post by wildtimes


First off don't try and deny you were refering to me when you said it.. God knows the truth, and the rest of us aren't so dumb.

As far as this..

Was I wondering how you would take it, to read that John was an Eastern Occult mystic, who also studied in the East, and his cousin Jesus then later was trained in the same way? Yes, I was.

You want to believe those stories.. go ahead wildtimes.. like I said.. there are many lies being spread about Jesus and His life, and it has been prophesied that it would happen.

Did I say to myself, 'Self, here you go! A text that talks precisely about how Jesus got separated from his parents Joseph and Mary at the Passover feast when he was thirteen, and they went looking for him frantically, and found him speaking with the wisest elders (a shockingly impertinent act all by itself) and the elders were listening to him as the One! I wonder what the ATS Christians would say about this!' You bet I did.

These are things we are taught to meditate on when saying the rosary.. and it isn't a shock at all that Jesus who is part of the living God would have infinite wisdom at a young age and be teaching in the temple at 12.. duh..

You really don't know what Christians believe, but have convinced yourself that these books, that teach some truths, yet , twist others around, are the truth...then you have the nerve to try and teach us something, that you are not even fully understanding.. like your crazy "teachings of Christ" site..where it says that nudity is the way for the fastest spiritual enlightenment.

Unless these readings actually talk about the sacrifice on the cross, and the redemption He purchased for all souls through that sacrifice.. its all a bunch of half truths ..or total lies.. to try and get people believing in a mysticism that does not fully encompass the message of salvation, and how it was won by His death and resurrection.

So.. continue on with your fake books on the life of Jesus, because ..unless they talk about His death , resurrection, and ascension into heaven.. and why that was needed.. its all fake diamonds and fake pearls.. made to look real.

By the way.. John the baptist spent most of His time alone on mediation in the wilderness.. He was a soul that knew God through prayer and meditation..there was no need for "occult mysticism"..none whatsoever...and Jesus was taught by the Holy Spirit which He had infused into His being from His very first formation in Mary's womb. Why would part of God need any occult mystics to teach Him?

There is a great danger in many mystic religions to take the life of Christ , and try to make it something other than what it was... there are many blasphemies against the truth in this day, and it will get worse before God intervenes drastically.

I will wait for the day that Jesus Himself tells me what His childhood was like , as well as the childhood of John the baptist. Until then I know what His words are in the bible.. "No one comes to the Father except through me", and I will continue to believe that He died, resurrected, and ascended into heaven, until He comes back the same way He went to heaven.

Couldnt have said it better myself. I reversed the order and started with the critiscm in case you born agains took one look and didnt read it. Youd be surprised how much this guy actually praises Jesus

On the other hand, we have a picture of an angry Deity, manifesting purely human emotion and temper, bent
on revenging himself upon the race which he had created, and demanding its eternal punishment in hell-fire;
then the same Deity creating a Son whom he sent into the world, that this Son might be the victim of a blood-atonement and death upon the cross, that the Deity's wrath might be appeased and the blood of this
Divine Lamb be accepted to wash out the sins of the world.

Can you not see which is The Truth and which is the perversion? The one is from the pure fountain of
Spiritual knowledge--the other originated in the minds of ignorant theologians who were unable to grasp and
understand the Mystic teachings, but who built up a system of theology in accordance with their own
undeveloped minds; making a God who was but a reflection of their own cruel animal natures, demanding, as
did they themselves, blood and pain--physical torture and death--in order to appease a most un-Divine wrath
and vengeance. Which of the two conceptions seems most in accord with the intuitive promptings of the
Something Within? Which brings the greater approval from The Christ within your heart?

On the one hand we have Jesus the God-Man deliberately choosing the work of the World Redemption and
Salvation, and descending into the circle of the World-Karma, relinquishing the privilege of His Godhood and
taking upon Himself the penalties of Manhood; not only undergoing the sufferings of the physical man, but
also binding Himself upon the Cross of Humanity for ages, that by His spiritual presence in and of the race He
might lift up humanity to godhood.

This wonderful sacrifice of Christ far surpasses the physical sacrifice of Jesus, the man. Try to imagine, if you
can, even the faintest pangs of a being so exalted compelled to dwell in the world of the hearts and minds of a
humanity so steeped in materiality as our race, knowing always the possibilities of the souls if they would but
reach upward to higher things, and yet constantly suffering the knowledge of the base, carnal, material
thoughts and acts flowing from these souls. Is not this the extreme refinement of torture? Does not the agony
of the cross sink into insignificance beside such spiritual agony? You rail at the cruelty of the Jews who
crucified their Savior, and yet you crucify your Savior, with a thousandfold degree of torture, every day of
your life, by your persistence in the carnalities and foolishness of mortal thought and action.

As for guy who actually took the time to read the whole thing, I dont know about this other stuff like nakedness increasing spirituality or whatever, but you typed namaste so you seem inclined to yoga
I suggest you find the pdfs science of breath, 14 lessons yogi philosophy, raja hatha and gnani yoga, by ramacharaka (atkinsons psuedonym) and have a read. also the advanced course yogi philosophy. Have any trouble finding them email me at [email protected]

reply to post by MoeSantana

As for guy who actually took the time to read the whole thing, I dont know about this other stuff like nakedness increasing spirituality or whatever, but you typed namaste so you seem inclined to yoga

Yeah, that claim by the member gabby was a twisting of my having simply pointed out one of many sites that discuss the actual teachings of Christ as revealed by the gnostics and mystics...
I read all sorts of stuff...
and I did download this Mystic Christianity link.
Have you read Living Buddha, Living Christ by the author cited in my sig? He's a Korean Buddhist who discusses in that small volume having connected with Christian and Catholic priests, and finding the link between the two. His thoughts are profoundly wise and reach far past 'sectism', into the Divine connection between us all, as instructed by Jesus the Christ.

He has found the balance between the good things of both 'schools', and brings them to light beautifully.

reply to post by gabby2011

..then you have the nerve to try and teach us something, that you are not even fully understanding.. like your crazy "teachings of Christ" site.

uh, it's not MY CRAZY SITE.
And I'm not trying to 'teach' you -- or anyone -- anything.

I am merely offering some alternative scholarly and theological sources, with which you and everyone else can choose to read or to ingore, and then have perfect free will to decide what is your personal 'truth.'

You are right, I don't fully understand....!!! Do you?

You -- or anyone -- don't want to go to the library? Fine by me! Don't go!

I'd say it makes no never-mind to me, but that would be false: I feel it is important for everyone nowadays to be made aware of the varieties of religious experience and spirituality that exist, whether you like it or not. I have stated over and over ad nauseum et infinitum that I subscribe to NO SET of dogma. You can't make me. You can try to scare me, or belittle me, or persecute me, or accuse me of lying and blasphemy, but you can NOT make me accept the version that you have chosen.

Excuse the heck out of me for participating in a forum that is open to all faiths, religions, and theologies. No one is forcing you to do anything. You want to remain inside your box? Fine with me. Just stop persecuting me for looking, for going to the library, for making my own discoveries and decisions.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating: This is the Religion, Faith, and Theology forum. Not the Christians Only Forum.

What I decide is the best truth version for me is none of your business. Thank you very much, in advance, for respecting that.

reply to post by wildtimes

This is the Religion, Faith, and Theology forum. Not the Christians Only Forum.

That's why I post on this forum, in that I got banned from the Christian forum I used to post on for not being Christian enough, according to them. It did not help when I pointed out to the moderators their own heretical views. Anyway I think they had a three strikes and you're out policy and I got called up twice for examination of my faith and the third time is a mystery to me what my crime was since they don't examine you the third time but just can't log in and get a 'no such account' message.

reply to post by 547000

Did you ask God to show you the truth or just assumed what you found is the truth?

And which of the Gods do I ask here, 547000? Yahweh? I think not. Jehovah? He and I have a connection, but he is not about getting into the affairs of humankind. Jesus? He is dead and in his grave, his Spirit exists, but I know know where it is at. I am still not certain of who it is that speaks to Christians, but I have a theory.
I have connections to the Divine source too, but I do not need anyone to tell me magically what to think, I am not mind controlled, are you? And I do not "assume" anything. I research it to death. Say I find a "Truth." I need at bare minimum three other sources of this Truth before it becomes part of my thinking. This is not assumption, friend, it is deep research. And I have performed deep research into the Bible, and it's authors and origins, and the various Gods found in the Bible, and all and any Ancient Knowledge that I could find. This was a 10 year project, I did hardly anything else during this time but read, study, and research.

Originally posted by gabby2011

First off don't try and deny you were refering to me when you said it.. .......

OK, yes the world does revolve around YOU.

Hello.....drop your ego, and read what is ACTUALLY written.

You want to take a common sense, logical question as a personal attack.

reply to post by 547000

Anyone can twist the bible to say what they want, which is how he can come to his absurd theory that God is a dragon.

Actually, I used the KJV Bible to come to this conclusion. Obviously, you have not researched it well. Here ya go:

Job 41:20 speaks of the Leviathan:

The term "Leviathan" is not a translation, but rather a transliteration of the Hebrew word, לִוְיָתָן (livyâthân). לִוְיָתָן (livyâthân) is only found in Job 3:8, 41:1; Psalm 74:14; 104:26; and Isaiah 27:1. It is translated in the Greek translation of the Old Testament (LXX) as δρακων (drakôn) "dragon" in every instance with one exception, Job 3:8, where it is translated κητος (kêtos) "whale" or "monster" (found also in Jonah 2:1 and in Matthew 12:40, NKJV "great fish," NAS "sea monster"). Leviathan is one of the creatures God created on the fifth day of creation. Genesis 1:21 records this using the same Hebrew plural term תַּנִּינִם (tanniynim) for "sea creatures" (NKJV; "sea monsters" NAS) as is used in Isaiah 27:1 in the singular, תַּנִּין (tanniyn). There it describes Leviathan as a "reptile" (NKJV) or "dragon" (KJV, NAS). Some argue that Leviathan is a mythical creature, "merely poetic imagery."

All five occurrences (Job 3:8; 41:1; Pss. 74:14; 104:26; Isaiah 27:1) are in poetic passages and belong to "dead mythology," i.e., old mythological concepts are employed without suggestion that they are still believed. (The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, copyright 1976, p. 912)

source
Here is a Biblical description of the Leviathan:
Job 41:20
"Out of his [Leviathan] nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth."

And here is description of Yahweh, the ‘God’ of the Bible:

Psalm 18:8, 2 - Samuel 22:9
"There went up a smoke out of his [Yahweh] nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it."

Sounds like a dragon to me! And there is more:
Yamm becomes Yahweh

Yamm was the Canaanite god of the sea who also represented Chaos in the yearly nature saga that the Canaanite religion was based on, i.e., the death of crops at winter and their rebirth at spring represented by God or God's lieutenant being taken down into the Abyss or hell there to be rescued (Spring resurrection) by a Savior god or goddess (Baal and Anath for Canaanites, Marduk and Ishtar for Babylonians). This mythology became the Easter resurrection tradition of Jesus Christ.

When ancient Canaan collapsed in political power, Hebrews substituted their tribal god for EL's top position but Yahweh never ever had the wisdom or compassion of EL so Yahweh's reign has been as a fraud, a usurper god, a lower god posing as the highest God. The old Gnostic Jews and Gnostic Christians knew that Yahweh was a usurper lower god but somehow John hit the nail on the head by recognizing Yamm in Yahweh, that symbol most clearly showing in Revelation 13's the Beast from the Sea which is Yamm as he was symbolized as a seven-headed sea-monster in his form as Chaos. The head that has the mortal wound that doesn't die symbolizes the rebirth of Yamm as Yahweh.

Take a look at the Gospel of John, Chapter 8, where Jesus rips into the Jews for worshipping the devil. Then take a look at Revelation's famous Beast from the Sea.... and see Yamm again in his seven-headed sea-monster form, like Leviathan or Babylon's Tiamat. John "knew" who Yahweh was long before historians came along on the scene to confirm the forged identity of Yahweh.

The only Graven Image (thought those were forbidden?) Yahweh permits is that of a "fiery flying serpent," obviously his very own personal image. This image seemed to have supernatural powers, and Yahweh allows it to be freely worshipped in Solomon's temple.
Many Biblical passages imply that Yahweh consumed (ate) his meat offerings, nothing like the "fake" Gods of other cultures. The Bible is very specific that Yahweh wanted salt on his meat as well, suggesting these offerings were physically consumed and not merely burned. Yahweh was known to consume human beings as well, remember when, in the OT, two of Aaron's sons who prepared a sacrifice wrong were eaten up?
Leviticus, 26:29:
"And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat."
The Burnt Offering
The Zoroastrians, those whom share a great deal of religious doctrine and dogma with Christianity, they clearly state in their own scriptures (the Denkard), that the "God" of Judaism and Christianity was a Dragon.

reply to post by wildtimes

Oh, that is but the tip of a very big iceburg, wildtimes, please allow me to enlighten gabby here.

Solomon was a Sage, a High Magickal Practitioner who practised Demonology. He commanded 72 Demons to mine Gold and Jewels for his Kingdom, he worshipped the Goddess of Wisdom, Sophia, and even married here in a magickal ritual and orgy. He authored two Grimores still in use today.
The Key of Solomon (Clavicula Salomonis)
The Lesser Key of Solomon
Josephus wrote about this in his Antiquities of the Jews - Book VIII.
Moses was a Magickian, and authored a Grimore also, called The Sword of Moses. Remember, Moses grew up in the Court of Pharaoh, so it stands to intelligent reason and logic that Moses was well schooled in Egyptian High Magick. I do not know your opinion on Magick, but I can assure it it is real, and it works. The Ancient Jewish people had Magick too:
Ancient Jewish Magic: A History

What do you think of this?

reply to post by autowrench

What do you think of this?

Well, if you are talking to me, and not gabby, I think I've made it clear before what I think....
but I suspect you are talking to gabby.

Cheers, auto!

reply to post by jmdewey60

That's why I post on this forum, in that I got banned from the Christian forum I used to post on for not being Christian enough, according to them. It did not help when I pointed out to the moderators their own heretical views.

Hmmmm! Very interesting, dewey! And, btw, I'm glad you're on this forum...you appear to be a seeker/thinker who is open to theories and deep thought.

reply to post by wildtimes

What I decide is the best truth version for me is none of your business. Thank you very much, in advance, for respecting that.

I can respect that..but then please allow me the same courtesies..by not trying to teach me, and by insinuating us Christians.. "get all trembly ,frantic, etc etc, " when asked to read other sources. Its BS. We just know we don't want to read the so called scholarly writings that disagree with the sources we respect as truth...especially when there is so much to read yet on what we do respect as truth.

Please refrain from.. "when I read this,, my mind wonders what gabby would think".. when I read that.. "my mind wonders if gabby knows this"..

Like you said above its really none of your business what I think, because when I do tell you.. you start accusing me of trying to teach you..when in fact I am telling you what I think !!!

You can't play it both ways wildtimes.. with references to me ,and wondering if I am enlightened enough to believe what you send out, and then not have me respond with my version of the truth ,and why I see it that way.

You want courtesy?.. give it...simple.. really. You have done nothing but try and teach me for months..and I want nothing of it...and I pray very hard for those who may fall into the deceptions you teach as well. I have a right to pray for what I believe God wants me to pray for.