Ron Paul on a controversial topic, page
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 24 times
Topic started on 15-1-2012 @ 04:08 AM by Mach5
Recently, Ron Paul gave a speech regarding his stance on the legalization/decriminalization of all drugs from marijuana to heroin, and the potential legalization of prostitution based on an individual state's laws. In a sense, this would end the drug war, pardon all non-violent offenders incarcerated for small drug-related crime, and overall boost the liberties of the people.





"Many prisoners are non-violent and should be treated as patients with addictions, not as criminals. Irrational mandatory minimal sentences have caused a great deal of harm. We have non-violent drug offenders doing life sentences, and there is no room to incarcerate the rapists and murderers."


If this movement where drug use was legalized occurred, it would create a massive economical boost merely from companies attempting to commercialize it. Not to mention hemp being legalized as well - We would go back to the good old ages where almost everything that used pulp or cellulose was made of hemp. I have always been neutral in American politics as best I could, but the way I see it in the upcoming elections - Paul is practically the only sane, reasonable voice out there in Congress. But I also take anything he says with a grain of salt, albeit tiny.

- After all, he IS a politician.


reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 09:35 AM by Jerisa
reply to post by Mach5





If this movement where drug use was legalized occurred, it would create a massive economical boost merely from companies attempting to commercialize it. Not to mention hemp being legalized as well - We would go back to the good old ages where almost everything that used pulp or cellulose was made of hemp


True, however it would never happen. The textile industry and the automotive industry to name a few, would take a substancial hit if hemp products were the norm.

www.torontohemp.com...


reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 11:56 AM by JiggyPotamus
I support this, and I am not a drug user. I think there are a lot of people who have this mentality, that anyone who wants to see drugs legalized is a drug user, and that is extremely narrow-minded in my view. Do not make these drugs legal because people are going to do them anyway, make them legal because the war on drugs was a failure from the start, and is costing too much money for something that is not working.

Legalizing drugs would effectively put the illegal players out of business. You have to understand that no matter how much drugs are seized every single year, the cartels supplying the drugs only need a small amount to get through to continue making BILLIONS of dollars every single year. There is about a 1000% markup on these products, so that is like manufacturing something for $1, and selling it for $1000.

You cannot stop that. It is impossible. There are record numbers of drug users. Something has to change. Not only will legalizing the manufacture of drugs by reputable companies make the drugs "safer," since people will know what they are getting, the cartels will be put out of business because they cannot feasibly make enough money to justify continuing their operations, and the American taxpayers will save BILLIONS of dollars annually.

Use that money to police our borders, as that would be a good trade-off in my opinion, or use it for something else that will benefit the people. I think the states should have the right to control the manufacture of illicit drugs, and not the federal government.

There will also be billions in new taxes generated. Legalizing drugs would make America extremely prosperous. The people who want to do them will do so regardless, and there will not be that many people who will do them simply because they are "legal." There will be some, but not enough to bring the "downfall" of America.

I have not even mentioned how much the crime rate will decrease. Drugs would be cheaper, which means robberies will decrease. Gang related violence due to control of the drug markets here in the states would drastically decrease. The amount of people in jail and prison would drop dramatically, et cetera, et cetera.

The only question I have is "why hasn't this been done already?"
edit on 1/15/12 by JiggyPotamus because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 02:30 PM by AzureSky
I love the applause he gets.
And hell, if he gets president and changes the country into one of true freedom, then i would seriously consider moving there. Seeing as my country may or may not follow that example.

We should, considering we had decriminalized cannabis for awhile there. We can grow hemp here in canada though, but its not subsidized at all. And i barely see any products for hemp related things.. Sigh.

I believe it is a personal choice.
Drug users are gunna use, regardless of the legality of it. Stop funneling billions into the war on drugs (lots of which is probably profit to some businessman somewhere) and start treating them, which wouldn't be nearly as much money.

Treat it like alcohol. Dont drive inebriated. Dont be out in public inebriated (at least excessively). And there would be cheaper, cleaner 'drugs', therefore, STDs that are transmitted through needle would decrease exponentially. Here, i have a relevant link:

Link

Its from scientificamerican,

In the face of a growing number of deaths and cases of HIV linked to drug abuse, the Portuguese government in 2001 tried a new tack to get a handle on the problem—it decriminalized the use and possession of heroin, cocaine, marijuana, LSD and other illicit street drugs. The theory: focusing on treatment and prevention instead of jailing users would decrease the number of deaths and infections.

Five years later, the number of deaths from street drug overdoses dropped from around 400 to 290 annually, and the number of new HIV cases caused by using dirty needles to inject heroin, cocaine and other illegal substances plummeted from nearly 1,400 in 2000 to about 400 in 2006, according to a report released recently by the Cato Institute, a Washington, D.C, libertarian think tank.


I hope this doesn't break t&c, just a news story with some stats about how its going for them.
Its a fairly sharp decrease in such a short amount of time. More people going to treatment.

And another link to a similar story on timescience: Source


reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 02:31 PM by Starchild23
reply to post by Mach5



As long as he makes marijuana legal in every state, I'll be happy. Not because I may or may not smoke it, but because it has caused less damage than most legal substances in our history.

Let's scrap the bottle and white dust, and give that green plant free run of the country.


reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 03:12 PM by colbyforce
reply to post by gladtobehere



Exactly. I don't understand why people don't get the concept of freedom. It's not that difficult. Freedom to make your own choices, be it good or bad, as long as you're not affecting others negatively. That is ultimate freedom, and the way it should be. Ron Paul 2012! The only rational choice... period. Take some power back from the globalist scum.
edit on 15-1-2012 by colbyforce because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 04:08 PM by muzzleflash
reply to post by colbyforce



I understand why they don't want freedom.

Because they are afraid. Fear is the primary emotion involved.

They want to control everyone else and make them live life the way they see fit. They are intolerant and reject the way of life of anyone except themselves. They think they own your body and have the authority to tell you what you can and cannot do with it.

They are afraid that if they lose this control, that we will all die and society will collapse.
But to debunk their irrational fear, all you have to do is ask yourself, "What is happening right now already?".


reply posted on 15-1-2012 @ 09:31 PM by Praetorius
Originally posted by SGTSECRET
i talked to someone about this a few days ago. this person was so upset that Paul wants to make all these drugs legal. people act as if as soon as all these things are legal everyone is going to turn into cocaine addicts. if you dont do it now you probably wont do it even if it was legal. and if you DO do it now than you dont end up wasting our money sitting in jail for using it.

The thing that gets on my nerves most about this response is that Paul's ONLY aiming at federal laws. I can probably tell you his opinion on the rest, but does anyone REALLY think all the states are going to suddenly go "Oh, there's no more federal laws against it, drugs for everyone WHHEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!"?

Of course not. I believe *all* states currently have their own laws against these things, and still would even if Paul got it addressed on the federal level. I can certainly hope that the states would wise up quickly and put more effective policies in place, but the fear is simply ridiculous.

I won't even bother getting into the very valid arguments for policy changes otherwise as I don't want the thread memoryholed, but this whole topic and the irrational fear it inspires never ceases to amaze me. Hearing people basically say "I'm so afraid that people might do certain things, I'd rather continue policies that have only wasted money and lives while providing less regulation, oversight, and safety to these things while actually making them cheaper and more available! And yes, I'm effectively retarded, thanks!" simply blows my mind.


reply posted on 16-1-2012 @ 12:30 AM by Thought Provoker
Here's what it boils down to.

To determine what the Federal Government was created to do, its purpose, its intended function, one need look no further than the Constitution. Everyone knows the Preamble. Well... maybe not absolutely everyone. It says the government is being formed to:

Form a more perfect union
Establish justice
Ensure domestic tranquility
Provide for the common defense
Promote the general welfare
Secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity

And that's it. Where in there do you see any justification for something like the Drug Enforcement Agency? Does it establish justice? Of a sort, its own justice. What effect does it have on domestic tranquility? Quite a jarring one, I'd say; pretty much the opposite of ensuring it. Common defense? From what, ourselves? It's pretty obvious the general welfare would be far better off without them, given the tax revenue legal drugs would generate; would you rather keep drugs illegal, or get to keep ten percent more of your income? And they do nothing but take liberty away from people, don't they? And therefore, the power wielded by the DEA is unconstitutional because the Constitution doesn't allow for it.

And that's Ron's point. That's why he's called a "Constitutionalist." The Federal Government should have no right to tell the states what to do. It's only supposed to sort of glue them all together, make their interactions smoother. Instead it's taken over. It bullies the states into doing what it says. It is the exact opposite of what it was intended to be. And don't even get me started on the Federal Reserve/IRS.

Still, if Ron Paul did manage to get himself elected President, he'd stop being trustable. Like all the others, everything he said he'd do to get himself elected would remain undone. That's because Presidents don't run the Federal Government. They don't make the decisions. They read scripts, they sign what they're told to sign, they follow their orders. Under the thumb of the true rulers of our little blue dot called Earth, Ron Paul would find all that fighting spirit squished out of him. If he defies them, he'll be dealt with. I sure wouldn't want to be President...


reply posted on 16-1-2012 @ 12:29 PM by Thought Provoker
reply to post by maddog99


And lest we forget: Coffee is a drug. Broccoli is a drug. Water is a drug. Any substance that has an effect on human physiology is by definition a drug. Why do they pick and choose which ones are allowed? People die from overdoses of water, for God's sake; we call it "drowning." Where's the moral outrage against our deadly lakes and rivers, against backyard swimming pools? Why isn't coffee regulated? People have DIED from overdoses of caffeine, I guarantee you, but nobody has ever died from an overdose of marijuana. Why isn't Juan Valdez a pariah as reviled as any other drug dealer?

Because coffee can't be used to make fuel for our cars and clothing and paper, that's why. Industrial hemp has NO psychoactive compounds in it, none. It cannot get you high. All it's good for is its fibers and biomass, which are extremely useful and replenishable in a single growing season. Law enforcement's opposition to it is that it looks the same as the kind of hemp that does get you high. "We couldn't enforce that!" they complain, so everyone just has to do without cheap fuel, clothing, and paper. And protein; hemp seeds have more protein in them than ground beef, whether they grow into drugless hemp or drug-full hemp (the seeds never contain drugs, only DNA and food in a crunchy shell). Legal drugs would destroy profits for a great many corporations; therefore, since corporations control politics (via lobbyists and their bribes), drugs will never be legal.

And there are other reasons, too. Legal marijuana means no more under-the-table profits for the CIA, who ships most drugs into America. That's how they fund so-called "black ops" that no one in Congress has heard of. They don't need funding approval if they're getting those funds on the sly, do they? Legal drugs would destroy that system; therefore, drugs will never be legal.

We, the People, are being screwed because those in power worship money and couldn't care less about us. Nobody we vote into office will have any chance of changing the status quo, because those offices aren't where such decisions are made. If we could vote for who gets to run the World Bank and the IMF and the BIS, we might have a chance. But we're only given the power to elect political officials, who become controlled by corporations virtually as soon as the voting is over. Dow is keeping pot illegal, not Barack Obama. It's DuPont, not Eric Holder. Why anyone still thinks their vote matters in the slightest is beyond me. "Would you like the douche, or the turd sandwich?" Republican or Democrat or independent, Christian or atheist, liberal or conservative, left or right, up or down, whatever they are, it does not matter. They do what they're paid to do... and since we only pay them $165,000 a year, but lobbyists can give them millions under the table, guess who wins? "He who has the gold makes the rules."

There's nothing good about the Federal Government anymore, nothing. It doesn't have our best interests in mind. It sure isn't serving me, but I don't own a multi-national corporation. I sure don't feel "represented" by my Congress critters (at the Federal or State level), do you? I don't think I ever have been. I'm a minority in a very great many categories. Who cares about the minority in a Democracy? Even if it's 49% of the people who want a certain thing, if 51% think they shouldn't have it, that's the end of the discussion. "Sorry, medical marijuana supporters, no pot for anyone's glaucoma, because think of the children!! We did vote on it, you know!"

Why does anyone still live here?
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