Indian Air Force vs. Pakistani Air Force

A Su-30Ka is an upgragraded Su-27 Flanker...the Su30MKI is an upgraded Su-30ka....Hmm..about the Eurofighter Typhoon...I'd like to see it fair up against a Su-30MKI...I'm not so sure about it being better than the MKI...

For this i'll put my money on the MKI,I'd say the MKI has longer range and better russian armaments,while the typhoon has better manouverability.

And in the old 1960s Indo-Paki conflict? Pakistani Air Force's J-6 fighters shot down 12 Indian Air Force aircraft, including one MiG-21, eight Su-7s, and three British-made 'Hunter' fighter-bombers, while only three PAF's J-6 fighters were lost in the battle.So much for lousy and cheap Chinese copied MiGs huh?Also,on 5th June 1965, a J-6 driven by PLA Naval Aviation pilot Gao Xiang shot down a U.S. Air Force F-104C 'Star' fighter near Hainan Island. I'd love to see stealth spy on this.

Hey Lucretius just got to say your so-called comparison charts are fundamentally flawed! The Su 27 is a far superior aircraft to the F-15, F-16, and the F-18 (any versions of all three mentioned) The Su 27 has got far better maneuverability than all three, its range by far exceeds that of any of the F-15�s, F-16�s and F�18�s � to be specific its got a range of 4000 km (without in-flight refueling)
As for the Su 30MKI sorry its not an upgraded Su 27 � only the Su 30 is an upgraded derivative of the Su 27. The Su 30 MKI is a derivative of the Su 37 Super flanker. Its range is approximately 4500 km � tell me which U.S or European aircraft even comes close to that?! It is able to achieve 5th generation super maneuverability, which even the Eurofighter (supposedly a gen-5 aircraft) cannot achieve. Please don�t even compare the maneuverability of the Su 30MKI to the Eurofighter they are worlds apart in this category! If anyone out here wants to toot the Erofighter's trumpet tell me - which U.S or European fighter has the ability to point the nose away from direction of flight for sustained periods, rotating the nose through 360 degrees and recovering from tail slide by rolling into an entirely different plane?? - Which aircraft can preform a 85 degree turn at mach 1.2 (super cobra)??? I know the Su-30MKI and Su-37!!! As I stated in an earlier post the Su-30MKI has far superior maneuverability to even the much hyped F-22 Raptor, plus from the reports I�ve heard the average range of a Su-30MKI is about 750 � 1000 km further than of an F-22. And last but �fairly� importantly, the F-22 has a max super-cruise speed of mach 1.5 and a top speed of mach 1.8 � How in the world does in compare to an aircraft that is able to surpass mach 2.5!!!


[edit on 15-12-2004 by eastern_block]

There you go again, the same mistake repeated over and over again. "which U.S or European fighter has the ability to point the nose away from direction of flight for sustained periods" is touted as representing super manouverabilty.

If it does this, it is still flying in a straight line, that is not manoevering. sustained and instantaneous turn rates are what count but even this must be diminishing in importance with the advent off off-boresight missiles (which I know both sides have). When your Typhoon pilot can get a shot off against the Su-30, even the MKI, by simply looking at it, even if he has to look over his shoulder, it kind of negates any agility advantage.

Now, I have read that the 'over the shoulder' shot is unique to the Typhoon but, even if that is true (and I have not yet tried to verify the claim) it cannot be an advantage that will last so there is no need to flame on this.

Eastern block you are seriously starting to annoy me get your facts right.I'm not even going to start on the manoverability of the MKI,or that all the F-15 or F-14 or F-18 versions are inferior to the MKI.So much for deny ignorance

the charts are accurate... I can assure that

however they only provide manouverability statistics which in modern terms are less important than avionics

Here are some stats on the MKI's preformance -

The Su-30MKI's maneuvers include - the "Super Cobra", where the aircraft enters with a speed of 900 kmh and is pulled through to an alpha of 145 deg, then recovers to the vertical position and held in place for 8 to 10 seconds. The nose is then allowed to fall to the horizontal position, emerging at 650kmh with no loss of height. Another maneuver used the thrust vectoring to flip the Su-30MKI onto it's back, and then to rotate it upright and continue in the opposite direction. The most impressive manouver it is able to preform is the kulbit (somersault). With an entry speed of 700 kmh the aircraft flips onto it's back (a full 180 deg) facing the opposite direction, inverted and practically stationary. After pausing, thrust vectoring completes the kulbit - a 360 deg somersault - with a nose down angle of 40 deg and an exit speed of 300 kmh.

The Su-30MKI features an all new fly-by-wire (version 2 from what I've heard) and relaxed static instability, which along with 3D thrust vectoring give the aircraft amazing agility.

[edit on 15-12-2004 by eastern_block]

India hands down, in both equipment and training.

I would say the chart is accurate.

Please note, however, that it compares the Su-27 with the other aircraft (though I would assume a similar block/mk./type.) The MKI operated by India, with its canards, 3d thrust vectoring engines, is an incredible leap in manoverability compared to the old -27s. Even the -30Ks offer superior structural, engine and materials to the -27s.

Of course,as was said, avionics is the real key. And in this regard the MKI is a generation and a half ahead of the -27s, and has comparable systems to other 4+generation a/c. Even the 27/30MKK operated by PLAAF has upgraded systems from the -27.

A thought worth pondering over.... just imagine if the Americans sold those Pakistani's the F-22!!!??? It would cause regional instability on a massive scale... relations between India and the US would nearly be dead.... and last but most importantly.... China would eventually get the F-22 or knowing how the Chinese function... make a rip off, of it!

In general I just have to state... I hate American & European (except for the French) aircraft, they are over-exagerated, and hyped way beyond thier true potential!


[edit on 16-12-2004 by eastern_block]

Originally posted by eastern_block
In general I just have to state... I hate American & European (except for the French) aircraft, they are over-exagerated, and hyped way beyond thier true potential!

Don't you think that statement devalues any assessment of capabilities that you post on here?

I mean, it illustrates a bias or blinkered outlook before you even begin to consider what these aircraft are and are not capable of.

Personally speaking I do not look at any aircraft with a thought on where it came from but merely that it is an aircraft, whether it be the Raptor, Typhoon, Berkut or the latest offerings from Korea, India, Iran or wherever I try to make my own personal judgement on the aircraft itself.

I have no love for the French for example, no offense to individuals intended, but I have no problem in admiring the Mirage 2000 and Rafale for what they are, superb aeroplanes.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
For this i'll put my money on the MKI,I'd say the MKI has longer range and better russian armaments,while the typhoon has better manouverability.

And in the old 1960s Indo-Paki conflict? Pakistani Air Force's J-6 fighters shot down 12 Indian Air Force aircraft, including one MiG-21, eight Su-7s, and three British-made 'Hunter' fighter-bombers, while only three PAF's J-6 fighters were lost in the battle.So much for lousy and cheap Chinese copied MiGs huh?Also,on 5th June 1965, a J-6 driven by PLA Naval Aviation pilot Gao Xiang shot down a U.S. Air Force F-104C 'Star' fighter near Hainan Island. I'd love to see stealth spy on this.

Those are good PAF pilots...I've already said the PAF is highly trained and where did you get your source on this?.I'd like to see A2A stats on those encounters... becausea Mig21 is better than a J-6 anyday..
most kills by the PAF in the 65 war were airbase bombing of stationary planes...
Also another point to be made is that in both the 65 and 71 wars the IAF was always on the offensive supporting its advancing army...while the PAF always made defensive hit and run sorties....The offensive force takes more hits intially..unless its a surprise attack..in this case it was only retaliation.
Another point to be noted was that in the 65 war the IAF underestimated the PAF capabilities...incorrect stratregic decisions were made by tacticians which led to increased losses in the beginnining...However later on when the IAF Gnats flew the PAF barely got airborne...so no encounters took place after that...i.e. the IAF never got the settle the score in 65..
The 71 war is an entirley different matter however...the IAF was prepared this time round...the stats speak for themselves..
nobody worries about which side lost more aircraft if one wins the war outright!!

And as for the F-104 bit, they were shot down by indian homemade 'gnats'
so no biggie there...

Originally posted by eastern_block
A thought worth pondering over.... just imagine if the Americans sold those Pakistani's the F-22!!!??? It would cause regional instability on a massive scale... relations between India and the US would nearly be dead.... and last but most importantly.... China would eventually get the F-22 or knowing how the Chinese function... make a rip off, of it!

In general I just have to state... I hate American & European (except for the French) aircraft, they are over-exagerated, and hyped way beyond thier true potential!

[edit on 16-12-2004 by eastern_block]

The Us can't sell the Pakis the F-22, simply because the Pakis can't afford it!!

The Pakis are getting the F-16s which they deserved to get way back in the 80s...the US withheld them for some stupid reason..they were just being plain mean to the pakis!!! After all the paymesnt for ALL the aircraft had already been made...still a batch was witheld till now...HOW MEAN!!

And about hating aircraft well thats sad..

My favorite American Aircraft..

F-16
boeing 747
B-2 (don't like the f-117 )
Lancer B-1b
YF-23(don't like the F-22 )
F-86

btw I don't like the F-14 at all!! hehe...

my favorite British Aircraft:

Jaguar
Harrier
Hawk

Be like watching two terrible high school teams "duke" it out for last place.

Everyone knows what would happen ---- it would end in a tie ---- neither country would have any planes left.

Would you care to substantiate that last post, guy?

Or are these more inane one-liners from the willfully ignorant?

I maintain that it's foolish to even speculate on the outcome of 2 (or more) 3rd world air forces taking each other on with hand me down aircraft from past and present (USA) superpowers.

What's next, a thread about Tanzania's air force fighting Zambia's

[edit on 12/16/2004 by centurion1211]

Hey centurion1211 why don't you cut the crap, everyone knows that when it comes to military capabilities, in particular of the airforce India can compete with the best. If what I'm telling you is something new that you are truly one ignorant son of a *****! Let me go one step further when it comes to the airforce India could probably whip your arrogant American ***! The Su 30 MKI is far superior to any of the planes currently in the US airforce (with exception to maybe just the F-22)

What ever happened to the 9-0 whitewash of the two force during recent training exercises???

[edit on 17-12-2004 by eastern_block]

Originally posted by centurion1211
I maintain that it's foolish to even speculate on the outcome of 2 (or more) 3rd world air forces taking each other on with hand me down aircraft from past and present (USA) superpowers.

Um. You've substantiated a one-line with another one-liner.

I'm talking about facts and figures. Please, please break down the Orbat of the IAF and do explain to us all how this 'third world' airforce is comprised of 'hand me downs'

Jeez. This forum is rank with either prejudice or ignorance. I thought it was simply the latter, but now I am begining to wonder...

OK folks, let's take it down a notch please.

Raj, you win.

Even though you all sound kind of like kids yelling at each other that "my dad's tougher than your dad", for the sake of moderation on this thread I'll admit that the Indian air force is the baddest bunch on the planet.

Feel better now?