Are you for or against Americans jobs being outsourced?

Job outsourcing seems to be a major problem affecting our country. Many on this website support believe that outsourcing of our manufacturing, R&D, pharma, insurance, engineering, software development, etc. is good for America because it allows companies to reduce costs for their products due to the extremely lowered overhead costs. What is your opinion on this? Is outsourcing good for this country and really not a problem or is it truly a major problem that needs to be addressed immediately?

reply to post by Diablos


This ought to be interesting.There are so many here at ATS that would gladly bend over and kiss the "Godly" corporation's posteriors, dunno if they're really shills, but they're definately neo facists...and love bending over and taking it in the posterior that this ought to be a truly funny thread by the time it grows...
As for me, totally against it you want to outsource, that's fine, then call yourself a Indian/chinese/mexican/african company, don't call yourself American, because what they do is about as unamerican as it gets!

I think there should be a concentrated effort to bring manufacturing back to America. Things will probably cost more because workers won't be getting payed < $10 a week or something ridiculous like that, but with enough public support, I think people would could afford it would make the effort to buy things proudly stamped "Made in America".

Outsourcing is not necessarily a bad thing, but when it is rampant it is a sign of unhealthy imbalances in the international market.
The problem with these sort of questions is that the answer can only be as simple as the question, when the problems actually run much deeper. The real question is, what sorts of policies create the financial incentives to outsource? Why is it profitable? Why would it be necessary for survival in a competitive market?
The answer in a nutshell is that a global economy was shoved down our throats. This global economy only benefits the biggest corporations under the current trade agreements.
First, no American business should have to compete with a foreign business that DOESN'T MEET U.S. LABOR STANDARDS.
Period.
This alone would solve a lot. You simply ban the import of those goods until said country has fair labor standards meaning a living wage, standardized hours and working conditions.
Secondly, you have to actually regulate Wall Street brokerage firms and investment banks. They have the financial tools whereby ruthless CEO's and CFO's can mortgage the future of the business for big time cash today, putting the business under serious debt. This makes the business unable to compete, and these criminals get rich in the process. LBO's, leveraged buyouts. # can these "options", they should be criminal.
Lastly, get educated. Everyone. This crap will not end until we know HOW, WHY, WHEN and by WHOM we are getting screwed. Until then, just keep bending over.

i am against out sourcing our jobs and modes of production to other countries.

we can plainly see the impacts of loosing such a large percentage of the jobs that use to exist in this nation and it is not pretty.

asa young adult i have too many friends who struggle on a level i never knew could or would exist in the usa and it is frustrating, frightening and rather infuriating.

i agree with the poster above me, surrealisticpillow, in that one of the largest contributing factors to the out sourcing problem is 'globalization' and the free trade policies that now bind (no hog-tie) our nation.

as has already been pointed out, in this system corporations able to move production to where ever it is cheapest.

although cheapest is really not a wholly honest appraisal as it only pays attention to $$$ and completely ignores the externalities associated with producing in a country that has no laws governing environmental or social impacts (externalities) of production.

i think another major issue is the loss of a sane tariff on imported goods.

Let me laugh for a second... Ok...now that i've gotten that out of the way...let me just say: "Your j.o.b.s.? How so? Are you the owner of Nike, Sharp, Chevy, etc, etc...so on, and so forth? So, how can you say YOUR, anything? You are just an EMPLOYEE. Your EMPLOYER doesn't have to be loyal to you; your EMPLOYER has to be loyal to his/her BUSINESS because, if they don't, they also will be UNemployed.

Now, let's say you have a business...and Joe Schmoe wants $5 an hour, for his services, but Jack Wong will take $4 dollars for his services, who are you going to hire? Well, that's what has happened in America. Joe Schmoe is too EXPENSIVE to keep, when Jack Wong will do it for less the price. That's called SMART BUSINESS. It's "nothing personal", it's just BUSINESS.

Nike doesn't HAVE TO care about you, they're paying for your TIME, and in that allotted time slot....this and that needs to get accomplished. People don't get paid for their WORK, they get paid for their TIIIIIIIIIIME. Time is money and money is time. Feel me?

If you got a beef, with the way BUSINESS gets done......start your own, and do it YOUR way....OR...start from scratch...by lowering your demands; and your wages. You have to COMPETE! Unfortunately, Americans can't compete because they like their 'comfy, lavish' lifestyles. Besides, working for a $1 a day, couldn't even pay for a hamburger at Mickey D's. What ever would they do?

in a global economy with numerous shipping options, and high speed internet, it's irrelevant if you support it or not, it's inevitable.

the US middle class had it pretty good, but the erosion of manufacturing jobs is only going to escalate.

and if you try to legislate against it, you'll just cost more jobs of the management and finance types who work at the corporate HQ here in the US, or they'll just move those jobs as well, and foreign companies that do hire over here will stop, so there really is nothing you can do

except lower the minimum wage, and the requirement to offer benefits to full time employees (state by state laws)

but then the erosion just continues

wait, what if we got the other guys to unionize and demand better pay ?

Their plan is working. Outsource the manufacturing to increase profits, then lower the standard of living in the U.S. Eventually the majority of U.S. income is lowered to the point that the cheap Chinese manufactured goods seem expensive. Now the middle class, made peasant class, can work for 75 cents an hour with no benefits and manufacturing can resume in the states.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
in a global economy with numerous shipping options, and high speed internet, it's irrelevant if you support it or not, it's inevitable.

i kindly disagree. free trade agreements and the reduction of tariffs made it possible and ending FTA and reinstating tariffs can make it much 'less' possible.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
the US middle class had it pretty good, but the erosion of manufacturing jobs is only going to escalate.

it has become far more wide spread than 'manufacturing jobs'. we are now seeing a large percentage of white collar jobs leaving us soil as well.

and if you try to legislate against it, you'll just cost more jobs of the management and finance types who work at the corporate HQ here in the US, or they'll just move those jobs as well, and foreign companies that do hire over here will stop, so there really is nothing you can do

i am curious as to what line of logic tells you this? where did you find information to support this hypothesis?

you can easily and effectively legislate against this type of problem.

reply to post by Animal


if a foreing nation passsed laws making it illegal for them to send jobs to the US, how would the US respond ?

simple logic actually

Originally posted by syrinx high priestif a foreing nation passsed laws making it illegal for them to send jobs to the US, how would the US respond ?

simple logic actually

I don't think people are calling for passing laws to make it illegal to send jobs overseas, but ending "free-trade" (which is not fair trade) and bringing back tariffs. Giving very generous tax breaks to companies that keep jobs here as an incentive and remove tax breaks from companies that still insist to send their jobs overseas.

This will cripple multinational corporations, which is not a good thing at all, but it will encourage small American businesses to grow with all these incentives in place to keep jobs here.

Do you really see nothing wrong with having all of our manufacturing, infrastructure, and weapons development not done in America and we essentially become a service economy? Do you really think it is a good thing if 80% of jobs in America are minimum wage jobs at Walmart, Mcdonalds, Target, etc.? Because that is where we are headed.

Originally posted by nuttin4U
Let me laugh for a second...

Ok...now that i've gotten that out of the way...let me just say: "Your j.o.b.s.? How so? Are you the owner of Nike, Sharp, Chevy, etc, etc...so on, and so forth? So, how can you say YOUR, anything? You are just an EMPLOYEE. Your EMPLOYER doesn't have to be loyal to you; your EMPLOYER has to be loyal to his/her BUSINESS because, if they don't, they also will be UNemployed.

No one is saying that an employer shouldn't have the right to outsource, but if they want to take advantage of the extremely low overhead costs then they should keep all of their business there. By the time all of these companies outsource their jobs, Americans won't even be able to afford their products at the reduced cost. No American is willing to design a commercial jet plane at rates as low as 2 dollars/day. Every other developed country uses tariffs to protect the jobs of its citizenry.

Originally posted by nuttin4UNow, let's say you have a business...and Joe Schmoe wants $5 an hour, for his services, but Jack Wong will take $4 dollars for his services, who are you going to hire? Well, that's what has happened in America. Joe Schmoe is too EXPENSIVE to keep, when Jack Wong will do it for less the price. That's called SMART BUSINESS. It's "nothing personal", it's just BUSINESS.

Yet, Joe Scmoe most likely has among the best education in the world, while Jack Wong has probably paid his way through school and examinations (rampant in China, many engineers do not even take exams and have family/friends pull strings for them to get out). With no labor regulations or benefits, companies will always take Jack Wong because he is willing to work in a very hazardous and unregulated work area with no benefits. China has also been unfairly manipulating its currency.

There is a reason why American products last 3-5 times as longer than Chinese ones. When you can buy yourself an engineering degree in China, it says something. Greedy employers couldn't careless though because they can hire 100 Chinese engineers on the same budget that an American engineer would be charging. This will only bite them in rear eventually when Americans can no longer afford to even buy basic necessities due to being unemployed let alone their cheap quality products.

Isolationism will be economically disastrous for all. Remember, you do not have to purchase Hyundai,Toyota or Mercedes. You also do not have to shop at Wal-Mart. Vote with your dollars, if no one purchased foreign goods they would very quickly be manufactured in the good ol' USA! We can out innovate, out maneuverer and out produce any country in the world. Everybody else is just copying the innovations we have brought to bear! If we can avoid becoming a police state and allowed to free think no one can hold a candle against us. This economic experiment we have been subject to (believing we don't need to manufacture) has failed miserably. We can and will be the economic force we have always been!

Many jobs can not be brought back.

Steel manufacturing is one.
The mines are gone and the tree huggers will not allow them to reopen.

Many jobs are gone because the raw materials are no longer mined here and to get a profit you have to have the mines near the mills.
Once you add the high shipping cost to import the raw materials on top of the high manufacturing cost you GET a 5 to 10times markup.

One ton of iron ore only makes about 250 pounds of steel.
of you import 250 of steel only about 150 pound remains after machining to the final product

In the US we no longer even have the steel recycling plants to take scrap leftovers and chips from manufacturing to make new steel for reuse.
All the manufacturing leftovers are shipped back to china for remelt.

China keeps there cost down by keeping there currency low and keeping wages low and since they have the worlds largest merchant fleet they keep there shipping cost very low.
These all add up to subsidies that the US can not compete against.
Because of these and environmental rules in the US products made in the US would cost 15 to 25 TIMES more then products made in China.

reply to post by syrinx high priest


Hello again syrinx.

As Diablos pointed out I said nothing about passing laws preventing corporations from manufacturing goods over seas and sending those goods to the USA - or as you put it, making it illegal to send jobs to another country.

What I am talking about is the type of economic policies we had in place up until about 30 years ago when president after president, both republican and democrat, forged policy in favor of globalization - or a global economy.

Or of a sane tariff structure such as those during the industrial revolution - 20% to 44% - a time period where this country (usa) saw unprecedented growth in wealth and quality of life, link.

By ending our requirement to participate in global trade treaties and by increasing the tariff on imported goods and services we would begin to see jobs and industry begin to develop on US soil once again.

What I support is US policies that protect the US. I think globally people are coming to realize the globalization experiment has failed the people and benefited the global corporations.

Our monetary system is already essentially set up to extract resources (wealth) from the lower strata of society and carry them to the top strata (money created by the top strata, to be lent at interest, to the lower strata). Adding globalization into the mix simply exponentially increases this movement of wealth - from the bottom to the top.

My 00.02.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
reply to post by Animal

 

if a foreing nation passsed laws making it illegal for them to send jobs to the US, how would the US respond ?

simple logic actually

American politicians would react with faux-anger, making speeches about how evil whatever nation was making such laws was and how it was detrimental to all the hardworking Americans that need those jobs; but really, they'd be laughing when the cameras turned off because what they know is that nation can make rules like that anymore...because in a globalised economy, nations no longer make the rules.