Monkey+Frankenstein. When Fiction Turns Into Fact!!

So I was on another thread that I authored and it had to do with cloning, and the discussions in the medical professions way back in the day. There is a general agreement amongst many that this is purely science fiction, that cloning is kind of discussion that only "special kinds of conspiracy theorists" have.

Well I would like to discuss Dr. Robert J. White. This man is not fictional, nor a loon. I am going to add a bit about what he has managed to do, when he managed to do it, and I would like you all to remember that this has been done already.

This isn't in the works, or a case for discussion in some medical hearing. This is real, and the amount of people that underestimate the brains, skills, and cajones, of those with the will to try anything, these are usually the results.

Enjoy.

Robert J. White

White began his undergraduate studies at the University of St. Thomas before entering the University of Minnesota Medical School in 1949; he later transferred to Harvard Medical School in 1951, where he earned his medical degree cum laude in 1953.[2]

Throughout his career, White performed over 10,000 surgical operations and authored more than 900 publications on clinical neurosurgery, medical ethics, and health care.[2] He received honorary doctorates from John Carroll University (Doctor of Science, 1979), Cleveland State University (Doctor of Science, 1980), Walsh University (Doctor of Humane Letters, 1996), and University of St. Thomas (Doctor of Sciences, 1998).[3]

White had ten children with his wife, Patricia Murray, a nurse whom he met at Peter Bent Brigham Hospital while completing his surgical internship and residency. A devout Roman Catholic, White was a member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences. He attended mass regularly and prayed before performing surgeries.[1] White died at his home in Geneva on September 16, 2010, aged 84, after suffering from diabetes and prostate cancer.[1]

Research

In the 70's, after a long series of experiments, White performed a transplant of one monkey head onto the body of another monkey, although it lasted just a few days. These operations were continued and perfected to the point where the transplanted head could have survived indefinitely on its new body, though the animals were in fact euthanized.

For 40 years, White was a neurological surgery professor for Case Western Reserve University medical school.

en.wikipedia.org...

Here is a clip from a documentary about his successful transplant. WARNING!! GRAPHIC!!
Transplant Surgery - Dr. Robert White


A bit more about who he worked for/with and his greatest audience members, which include those that pushed for this type of surgery, and banked (either financially or scientifically) on his research.

Dr. White has been received in Papal audiences on numerous occasions to discuss his clinical and experimental work and has been an advisory to the Holy Father on bioethical issues. He has been the recipient of several Papal Knighthood''s and numerous Honorary Doctorate Degrees and visiting professorships. In 1994, he was appointed a member of the prestigious Pontifical Academy of Sciences.

Dr. White and his research group were the first scientists to successfully isolate the mammalian brain and maintain it in a viable state utilizing an extracorporeal perfusion system. They were also the first in medical history to transplant and hypothermically store the brain of the experimental animal. These researches have documented the immunologically privileged state of the brain, as well as the unique protective effect of deep cooling of the nervous system during circulatory arrest. They have also documented the degree of reduction of the brain''s metabolic activity at various low temperatures.

Dr. White was born in Duluth, Minnesota and received his medical education at the University of Minnesota and Harvard University Medical School from which he was graduated with honors in 1953. In 1962, he was the recipient of a Ph.D. degree from the University of Minnesota. His entire college and postgraduate education was funded by scholarships. His training in both surgery and neurosurgery was undertaken at the Peter Bent Brigham and Children''s Hospitals in Boston, completing his surgical neurological education at the Mayo Clinic. He is a member of the foremost research and surgical societies in this country and Europe. He is a consultant to the Burdenko Institute of Neurosurgery in Moscow, the Polenov Neurosurgical Institute in St. Petersburg, Russia, and the Ukrainian Research Institute of Neurosurgery in Kiev. He is the only foreign member of both Russian and Ukrainian Academies of Medical Science.

www2.lakelandcc.edu...

So I ask you the ATS community, with everything that we discuss here, do you think that this has been perfected? Is dead, and no one is attempting his research? Or is there something else far more sinister behind a transplant such as this?

Peace, NRE.

Wow, star and flag for you for such a great topic .
I see no reason that this has not been perfected.. look at the dates of when he done it, and look at what we can now do.
I'd imagine this would be something the elites would like (Maybe even already have done?) to prolong their lives ..

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


All I know is that seems to border on ethical and moral standards.
Do we need to be able to transplant an entire human head to another human body?
Is there a real justifiable reason to do this procedure?
Besides the obvious implications for paralyzed individuals.

Or will it be used for seemingly nefarious purposes?


I bet it is still being perfected or has been perfected already.


Very interesting find...

Well if there was any concern about this type of surgery being "secretive" or difficult, well here is a bit that he left while being interviewed.

How to perform a human brain transplant in 11 easy(ish) steps

Professor White says the procedures for such an operation would be as follows:

1 - The two 'patients' would be transferred to a specially designed operating room, equipped with apparatus for total body, human brain transplantation.
2 - Two teams of specially trained surgeons, nurses, scientists and technicians are on hand. This is because the two patients will be operated on simultaneously.
3 - Both patients will have to have a series of devices to monitor their brain and body activities during the operation. This will include brainwave, heart and blood monitoring. The most important measurement will be that of the brain.
4 - The operation in both patients is directed at the neck. The incision encompasses the entire neck with surgical division of all the tissues of the neck, including skin and muscles. A stage is reached in the operation where only the arteries, veins and spine remain.
5 - Bony vertebral elements of the spine at both the front and back are removed over several segments, exposing the spinal canal with its spinal cord and coverings. Metal plates are affixed to the remaining spine with screws above and below the area of absent bone. These will be used to fasten the spine together at the time of transplant.
6 - The surgery on the blood vessels is the most dangerous part of the operation. This is because to be transplanted, the brain can only be without its blood supply for an extremely short time. Therefore 'Loop' catheters are filled with a substance to prevent blood clotting, and are introduced into each blood vessel in the patient, to enable vascular transfer to be carried out.
7- Since the blood vessel transfer is the most concerning part of the procedure a specially designed piece of equipment has been made available. This mechanically supports the brain circulation, or can cool the brain very rapidly to temperatures in the region of 12ºC. This protects the brain for periods of over one hour if the blood circulation is completely cut off.
8 - The loop catheters are now arranged so that the blood circulation is passed from the donor body to the recipients head. The donor body now supplies the circulation to the recipient head. The spinal cords are divided and the recipient brain and head are transplanted to its new body. Its body is now used as a transfusion source.
9 -Both spines are fused together with the metal plates. The loop catheters carrying the blood supply are individually removed as the blood vessels are sewn together. If necessary the brain can be supported by the special instrument to provide it circulation or to cool it during these essential procedures.
10 - Now all the tissues of the neck wound are sewn together including the skin, and the brain transplanted patient is moved into a specially equipped intensive care unit. Great concern will remain in the area of tissue rejection, infection and circulatory support. Appropriate medications will be required. Also this patient will require permanent respiratory support and artificial feeding.
11 - When consciousness is regained we would expect that the patient's brain would function normally. They should be able to hear, see, taste, smell and think, and their memories should be totally intact. They can be instrumented for speech.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Peace, NRE.

I think that the fact that a surgeon who chops off a living, intelligent, sentient creatures head and grafts it onto another such animals body is advising the pope on bioethics says it all.

It makes me feel sick. Find a human who will volunteer and do it on them. These poor animals haven't got a say in it, what the hell must it be like to wake up in that state. Its grossly inhumane.

I think it really does sum up religion full stop. I started reading the bible the other day, I was curious and wanted to know what all the fuss was about. A few pages in it says that god gave man the trees and plants and animals to use. What a crock ! Hugely man-centric and egotistical I think. It sickens me to the stomach to think that there are people walking about that think genuinely, that the natural world was made for us, by God, so we can cut their heads off and start swapping them about. It's not right.

If people want to do this sort of thing, find a human willing to have it done, there will be volunteers I guarantee you. I eat meat, so animals are killed in my name, I'm a carnivore, I'm not a squeamish yoghurt knitter, or some animal rights activist, but this is plainly wrong.

It's quite amazing that they have done it, but they shouldn't have done it on an animal.

You know that this is a whole new world of medicine that is never mentioned or discussed even though this guy was huge in his field. Besides all the black projects out there for the military I am almost 100% sure that some of that money goes into this type of field also.

Human experimentation, pharmaceutical companies, and animal experiments is rampant, yet silent. No one is going to really come forward with this as long as there is a gain for those that can afford, and need this type of procedure. I am sure that they have fine tuned this after all these years, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if this isn't already being tried on humans.

Peace, NRE.

I will be pondering the implications to consciousness and the concept of one's individual self. Thanks for the info.

Amazing & horrific are two words that come to mind.
Maybe by performing these operations it helps them in other fields like fixing a severed jugular vein?
Just saying..................

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Explanation: S&F! and

Personal Disclosure: The whole subject reminded me of a horror movie ...

Mr Stitch [imdb.com]

Doctor Rue Wakeman and his équipe create a young man with skin and organs taken from other men
and women. The creature (Lazarus) reads a lot of books and learns all about the humans. But when he meets fascinating doctor Elizabeth English his life changes: he decides to escape from the laboratory... Written by Francesco Cordella -

Movie Review (Mr Stitch) [homegame.org]

In yet another Sci-Fi Original, things are all wierd and totally incomprehensible. And get this, they tried to be "arty" with it, which in this case simply meant all white backgrounds. Wee Willy Wheaton plays Lazarus, a person made of bits and pieces of 88 different people. Yeah it gets goofier. They left him without any sex organs too. Anyway he is suppossed to be the ultimate soldier, but he starts having memory flashbacks to some of the people's lives of the previous owners of his parts.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


just imagine all those eternally greedy fat cats in washington and very greedy owners of the mass media
living forever.

that multi billionaire media tycoon robert murdoch tweeted he was very upset that SOPA may not get passed.

he is 80 and all he cares about is $$$$$$$ from online piracy.


maybe he thinks his kids will remember him more if he left behind 101 billion instead of a 100 billion $.

talk about deluded.

just look at him.

i wander why people like him and other fat cats are so greedy right down to their last breath,money grabbing,grabbing,grabbing.

reply to post by pot8er


Then you need to go back and learn how to read and then give the bible another shot.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [fn] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

The word is רדה radah.

This verse does not say everything has been given to mankind to be used however he wishes, we are to be rulers of the world, and God expects us to be good stewards of what we have been given.

I wanted to bump this with the coming announcement of the first of the GM babies. This is further than you may think.

Peace, NRE.

I don't know which is more disconcerting, that the transplant requires two live people & the body donor would then presumably die .. or the not-yet-alternative - transplanting a head onto a dead body.

This all makes me uncomfortable. Fascinated & amazed at the scientific progress, but morally & ethically uncomfortable.

Many of you are disgusted by this procedure but take note of what the doctor said in the interview....

To have the ability to transfer tha head of someone with a damaged body to the body of someone that is brain dead?

The person that is brain dead in almost all cases would have the machines switched off in hospital, but what someone else could use that persons body to continue living because their body was damaged permanantly in some way why not make one out of two rather than loose both?

Its the ultimate organ donor program, and we dont make a fuss about organ donation, do we?

reply to post by Melbourne_Militia


The only thing that needs to be remembered from his interview is that it was so many years ago. This is NOT new, not in the least!

Peace, NRE.

Had to give this a bump, there a few threads going around about cloning, medical advance, etc,. and wanted to add this.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I don't believe that anyone, who possesses first the intelligence, that
allows one to secondly possess the knowledge. That then thirdly would
define the skills to perform such an operation. Would lack the common sense
that even I possess enough to know that consciousness goes where the brain goes.
So I must question the motives.

But a great thread it is.
SnF

reply to post by randyvs


What fascinates me is how long ago this was, do you think that they have perfected (close to perfecting) this yet?

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I imagine we'd be surprized they've managed to contain some of the things science has spawned.
And wouldn't be surprized at all, to see something wicked loosed and on a rampage, looking to
avenge it's own abominable creation.

Isn't that what you really mean ?

reply to post by randyvs


Sort of. I mean if they were doing this with humans Im sure there isnt a video of, not that we can see anyway.

But to humans, there has been talk of prolonging life for so long, I wonder is this is one of the steps that some are willing to take.

Peace, NRE.