What's Wrong With Us

Many, many people have asked, "What's wrong with the world? Why are we destroying it? Why are we starting wars and starving people and fighting each other over scraps?"

These are questions I have asked myself also, many times. I spend a lot of my free time sitting or walking in solitude, pondering the dilemmas of the world and the universe, believing that if I find the answers to all of the questions, I will eventually arrive at the meaning of life. And that will determine my fate.

Regardless, I have thought long and hard, and I have come up with a theory regarding the decline of mankind...or rather, the decrepit condition we find ourselves in. This is only a theory, but I find it intensely educational, and very sensible. I know, I'm the one who came up with it...but I pride myself on being impartial when it comes to judging the flaws of mankind. It is required, if I am to scrutinize our pitfalls. On to the point.

Imagine, if you will, three pillars. On these three pillars, there are two stone plates, and on these plates...two scrolls. This is a metaphor for the elements which make up the source of the troubles that plague our collective leaders. I want to point out that the reason i specify our leaders is because, even though we all exhibit these traits to some extent, and are victims of their symptoms...it is our LEADERS who have the potential to affect the world. And thus, they are the most susceptible to these flaws.

Now, these three pillars are something all predators have...and yes, we are predators. Since our birth, we have hunted and killed. These three pillars represent instincts: the need to dominate a space; the need to establish a resource; and the need to reproduce and form a community. These have accompanied nearly ever predator to date, and they are with us still to this day. And yet...we no longer need them.

The need to dominate a space is no longer relevant, as we are easily capable of sharing areas, such as schools, business buildings, and neighborhoods. This would not have been possible in other animals, as only blood-related creatures would have been allowed to share living and hunting/feeding quarters. We have learned to get along, and to share space. We don't require the savage dominance that other animals display.

Establishing a resource is also no longer relevant. We have the technology to find resources at will, the technology to quickly and efficiently harvest those resources, and the technology to widely distribute them. In fact, we no longer need to be concerned about food at all. We have nutrient tablets, we have biomechanical farms, we have companies that grow and process food with the ease of a dozen farms.

Finally, the need to reproduce and create a community. We have HUNDREDS of communities. We reproduce every day. Rabbits stare at us and whisper when we drive by, because we have surpassed their breeding rate. We don't need to reproduce anymore. It's unnecessary.

My point is, these three pillars have become, for the most part, OBSOLETE. And yet we a re a baby race. We have not yet outgrown these instincts, therefore we are now hindered by them. And now, we have the stone plates. These two plates are: FEAR...and CONTROL. These are MOTIVATORS. They provide the energy and the impulse for the actions of today's leaders.

We fear fate. We fear death, we fear an unwelcome event, we fear a lot of things. Control goes hand in hand with this...the desire to control our path, control our surroundings, control the variables of our lives. Fear and control are supported by the three pillars, but are more of an intermediary level of thinking. These motivators are the ones that are more than the simple emotions of dominance, hunger, and lust (the three pillars), but lack direction. The direction comes next.

The two scrolls are RIGHTEOUSNESS and RESPONSIBILITY. This is where our leaders come in. The previous two levels, the pillars and the plates (according to the metaphor) can be found throughout society. But this last level is usually found within the leaders of our community. The RIGHT to do as they see fit, for the good of the world. And the responsibility to protect and serve. They feel that since they are responsible for us, they have the right to do what they deem best for us.

All of these levels work together as follows: those three base instincts form the unconscious problem...the deep-seated issue that must constantly be solved, but which has become obsolete. Unfortunately, our hardwiring hasn't figured that out yet. The second level has fear and control chasing each other around, finding better ways of making sure those baser instincts are not only met, but kept. And those two highest priorities, found mainly in our leaders, provide the direction...the logic. They justify and rationalize the irrational urges welling up from within, saying that "Yes, these urges are logical, yes they are necessary. This is what you must do to fulfill them. What? Of course you have the right! You're responsible for the people!"

Needs, motivators, and directions/rationalizations. Need is what our instincts tell us must be done; the motivators tell us why; and the directions tell us not only that it's okay, but HOW. And the problem is...half of these are obsolete. Without them, we would be less concerned for ourselves and more concerned for the community as whole. These pillars, these baser instincts, are what's driving us at each like mad dogs, and tearing our countries and communities apart. The government is determined to fulfill those instincts (even if it denies it) and our people follow suit because that's all they can do. We are reduced to it because our country has CHOSEN it.

These pillars are obsolete; but because we haven't figure that out yet, our government still subconsciously follows the pillars. And as they follow from pillars to the plates to the scrolls, the final element comes into play: power. When power is thrown into the mix, you cannot help but think, "Hey...I can do a lot now. Anything I want can be mine. I can do so much!"

After that, well...I'm sure you can finish that sentence yourself. And thus, the pillars of our instincts become the pillars of corruption, because we have not yet come to terms with that fact that those things which have served us for so long are now unnecessary. Outdated technologies will often cause more problems than they fix. It's the same with our animalistic instincts. There may be uses...but now, we rely on them way too much. Or rather, we LISTEN to them way too much. Now, instead of listening to the animal inside, we need to listen to the civilized mind. That one that says to share, to love, to create and enjoy. Not the predator demanding destruction.

Our predatory instincts are corrupting us. We need to move on.

We are who we are, animals that are driven by fear/survival-based instincts. We've always been aggressive and violent, and barring some miraculous genetic modification to our behavior (like breeding gentler dogs), these aspects of us will never change.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with us, we have shaped the world according
to our true nature, which is to kill, destroy and to inflict pain and misery.
It is the MIND that tells us this is wrong, take that away and our instinctual
nature is what i described above, not some wishy washy new age crap.
The nobility of the human spirit is nothing but deluded fantasy.
We are NOT some kind of "higher" beings, only animals, nothing BUT animals
capable of complex thinking and speech.

Not meaning to troll, just my firm opinion based on observation over few decades.

reply to post by Starchild23


Before I offend your viewpoint, I would hope that we shall agree to disagree.

Your philosophical viewpoint drew you to say that

our instincts are corrupted

I would argue that instinct is Incorruptible; however, there is social corruption indeed. If you consider the global "Tribes" if you will. Their views, their believes, their leaders, their followers are corrupted as a whole.

Perhaps the segregation of all tribes is/was intended and serves the precise purpose of internal corruption for a purpose of distraction.

We certainly need to Wake up, Grow up, and over all, Play Nice with your neighbors.

reply to post by LionOfGOD


Is your firm opinion based on observation of yourself?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


No, it is based on observation of the world around me.
I´m also a member of this race, and i hold no illusions whatsoever that i´m any different.
I hold no illusions whatsoever, period.

reply to post by Starchild23


The only thing that is wrong with us is that we think there is something wrong. We think life is a puzzle to solve, that there is something wrong with the world or with ourselves and that our mission is to solve it, make it better.
Maybe if we just observered it just as it is we would see it works fine without the need to solve it.

That is a very nice explanation between the operation of the mind and government.

It does present some challenges in finding a solution, but identifying the problem is always a great start. The premiss that man is not evolved enough to effectively govern himself is a concerning one, but looking at the state of the world make perfect sense. Considering where we have evolved from there have been a lot of difficult and messy challenges along the way. With most of the worlds nations even being able to sit in the same room at the UN is a marvellous achievement.

When you look at the first walkers of the land and the insects, their sense of community is strictly hierarchical and war like. Then independence was found with the reptiles and the sense of community diminished. The mammals arrived next with community re-established through team work and independent or hierarchical modes of operation.

Nature is only interested in one thing, what works. The complexity behind life is mindbogglingly huge and our instincts have gotten us this far. Like bacteria in a petri dish, our culture will come to and end if we do not manage our resources effectively. I do appreciate your insights into the problem of effective governance and how fear and control have taken priority over reason.

The main problem comes down to free will. I may not agree with the actions of others, but it is not my place to make their decisions. Secrets and deception are survival tools that work, lately they are getting a bit much and becoming less affective as integrity diminishes and awareness raises. Either people wake up or fall asleep, nature does not care but it is looking to improve the system in a sustainable way that works. Whatever that may involve.

Originally posted by Glargod
reply to post by Starchild23

 

Before I offend your viewpoint, I would hope that we shall agree to disagree.

Your philosophical viewpoint drew you to say that

our instincts are corrupted

I would argue that instinct is Incorruptible; however, there is social corruption indeed. If you consider the global "Tribes" if you will. Their views, their believes, their leaders, their followers are corrupted as a whole.

Perhaps the segregation of all tribes is/was intended and serves the precise purpose of internal corruption for a purpose of distraction.

We certainly need to Wake up, Grow up, and over all, Play Nice with your neighbors.

Of course I am willing to listen.

You have taken issue with the "corrupted instincts" part...but what of the rest of it? Perhaps our instincts are not corrupted in and of themselves, but are simply the source of our corruption. We have evolved beyond the need for instincts, yet we continue to cling to the most predatory of them.

There is a problem with this, I think.

Originally posted by kwakakev
That is a very nice explanation between the operation of the mind and government.

It does present some challenges in finding a solution, but identifying the problem is always a great start. The premiss that man is not evolved enough to effectively govern himself is a concerning one, but looking at the state of the world make perfect sense. Considering where we have evolved from there have been a lot of difficult and messy challenges along the way. With most of the worlds nations even being able to sit in the same room at the UN is a marvellous achievement.

When you look at the first walkers of the land and the insects, their sense of community is strictly hierarchical and war like. Then independence was found with the reptiles and the sense of community diminished. The mammals arrived next with community re-established through team work and independent or hierarchical modes of operation.

Nature is only interested in one thing, what works. The complexity behind life is mindbogglingly huge and our instincts have gotten us this far. Like bacteria in a petri dish, our culture will come to and end if we do not manage our resources effectively. I do appreciate your insights into the problem of effective governance and how fear and control have taken priority over reason.

The main problem comes down to free will. I may not agree with the actions of others, but it is not my place to make their decisions. Secrets and deception are survival tools that work, lately they are getting a bit much and becoming less affective as integrity diminishes and awareness raises. Either people wake up or fall asleep, nature does not care but it is looking to improve the system in a sustainable way that works. Whatever that may involve.

An interesting analysis...very true. However, we have the intellectual capacity for working beyond and away from our predatory instincts. Nature evolves, yes? It finds a sustainable, efficient way of protecting and serving itself...and it leaves the old ways behind because they are no longer necessary.

We have followed the same system, yet those instincts that first served us (as stated above) are no longer a necessity. Will you keep a bicycle after you have bought a car? No, you throw it away or sell it. Why? Because you have something better.

We have something better: intellect. Something that has eliminated the issue of fighting for survival. We don't have to fight to survive anymore. We simply have to support the system, and we don't need instincts to do that. All we need is our higher brains.

The keyword here is obsolete.

Originally posted by LionOfGOD
There is absolutely nothing wrong with us, we have shaped the world according
to our true nature, which is to kill, destroy and to inflict pain and misery.
It is the MIND that tells us this is wrong, take that away and our instinctual
nature is what i described above, not some wishy washy new age crap.
The nobility of the human spirit is nothing but deluded fantasy.
We are NOT some kind of "higher" beings, only animals, nothing BUT animals
capable of complex thinking and speech.

Not meaning to troll, just my firm opinion based on observation over few decades.

edit on 14-1-2012 by LionOfGOD because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-1-2012 by LionOfGOD because: (no reason given)

If it is our nature to destroy, then why do some people feel disgusted by the act of eating meat, or feel horrified by the thought of killing an animal? Not to mention that we are knee-deep in the process of discerning the structure of the universe and the meaning of life itself...

I am willing to consider your views, but your argument is severely flawed.

reply to post by Balkan


We all have a wonderful computer called the brain. The limits one has is the one he imposes himself.

reply to post by Starchild23

I could not quote the entire text, so I will only reply. I get your point, but you are seeing the negative side of the medal. I am with you our basic instincts needs to be overwhelmed in a certain. The most important thing is learning to deal with it accordingly, we all can do it, if we wish to of course.

This is called wisdom and we all have it to a certain extent.

Concerning the two stone plates instead of fear and control, I see it more as being fear on a side and love on the other. This make a better complete balance in my opinion.

The to finish this post, I will tell you perception is reality through individual experience. The second you realize this reality can be changed through personal use of changed perception, life becomes something totally different. This is needs to be said more for all ATSers I think.




Thruthseek3r

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Starchild23

 

The only thing that is wrong with us is that we think there is something wrong. We think life is a puzzle to solve, that there is something wrong with the world or with ourselves and that our mission is to solve it, make it better.
Maybe if we just observered it just as it is we would see it works fine without the need to solve it.

Well, maybe we just THINK there's something wrong with us, and the polluted atmosphere, dirty water, broken streets and starving people and plgaue and disease and crime rates and economic pressure and war and nuclear fallout and... -deep breath- well, maybe it's just the aliens.

Because we all know we're never at fault.

Originally posted by thruthseek3r
reply to post by Starchild23

 

I could not quote the entire text, so I will only reply. I get your point, but you are seeing the negative side of the medal. I am with you our basic instincts needs to be overwhelmed in a certain. The most important thing is learning to deal with it accordingly, we all can do it, if we wish to of course.

This is called wisdom and we all have it to a certain extent.

Concerning the two stone plates instead of fear and control, I see it more as being fear on a side and love on the other. This make a better complete balance in my opinion.

The to finish this post, I will tell you perception is reality through individual experience. The second you realize this reality can be changed through personal use of changed perception, life becomes something totally different. This is needs to be said more for all ATSers I think.




Thruthseek3r

Ah, yes. But two things:

One, I prefer to see the whole picture. That includes the shady parts.

Two, it's best to see things from a broad perspective. I am not the only person alive on this Earth, and so there are lots of different perspectives, and lots of different effects. With that said, it's best to see what we are doing as a whole, instead of accepting that individual perspectives are both irrelevant and unreliable and giving the whole thing up for lost.

We must examine the deepest shadows to find our demons, otherwise we will never see the light.

Man and animal are destroyers and violent killing machines by nature and instinct unfortunately. Makes me wonder what kind of "god" we really have to have created an existence in such a manner, if there is a "god".

"God = good? I really question that one the more I think about it all.

reply to post by Starchild23

An interesting analysis...very true. However, we have the intellectual capacity for working beyond and away from our predatory instincts. Nature evolves, yes? It finds a sustainable, efficient way of protecting and serving itself...and it leaves the old ways behind because they are no longer necessary. We have followed the same system, yet those instincts that first served us (as stated above) are no longer a necessity. Will you keep a bicycle after you have bought a car? No, you throw it away or sell it. Why? Because you have something better. We have something better: intellect. Something that has eliminated the issue of fighting for survival. We don't have to fight to survive anymore. We simply have to support the system, and we don't need instincts to do that. All we need is our higher brains. The keyword here is obsolete.

When we come to the term 'instincts' could we be more specific? Riding a motorbike instincts have saved my butt more than once, I want to keep that. Are you talking about the blind uncontrollable rage that can hit? Or the fear and control? Is it the sympathetic nervous system you wish to target and the fight, fright, flight response from too much adrenalin?

I fully agree that intellect should play a bigger role in the system of governance. Unfortunately the political, financial and military sectors of society are 'in control'. How the climatology community came together at the UN to spark the climate change debates does show the intellectual potential. With the issues of globalisation very complex the amount of review and understanding takes a lot of time and resources to comprehend and lead. With the issues around CODEX and GMO there does need to be a lot more scientific review, debates and questions.

As for getting rid of stuff I don't need, I like to keep two pairs of sunglasses in case I lose one. As for fighting for survival, life ain't always easy. I may not have to physically fight anyone, but people are not the only threats and challenges that life can produce. As we continue to evolve what other threats are out in the universe? Being able to dig deep and push through can make the difference at times.

Perhaps our instincts are not corrupted in and of themselves, but are simply the source of our corruption. We have evolved beyond the need for instincts, yet we continue to cling to the most predatory of them.

Organised armies go back as far as recorded history, with hunter and gather tribes +200 000 years. The most predatory started back in the sea as bacteria went on the search for resources. Competition is ingrained at the start of the DNA chain and is how life continues its search for improvement. I too have an issue with the conflict that is developing from this and would like to address it.

If it is our nature to destroy, then why do some people feel disgusted by the act of eating meat, or feel horrified by the thought of killing an animal?

Another aspect of DNA is diversity, as the population expands so does the search. Some species eat plants, some eat meat and the others eat both. Domestication of wildlife and selective breading have lead to the plant and animal life filling up your shop shelves. For nature to complete its cycles it must reprocess plant and animal material. The process of life and death can be stressful at times.

Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Man and animal are destroyers and violent killing machines by nature and instinct unfortunately. Makes me wonder what kind of "god" we really have to have created an existence in such a manner, if there is a "god".

"God = good? I really question that one the more I think about it all.

edit on 14-1-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)

According to the Bible, the animals are here, first and foremost, to feed us. That's what kind of God we have.

Also, it is interesting to see you talking about "killing machines" when you can type the words 'tree hugger' into Google and get millions of hits, including hundreds of worldwide organizations promoting the protection and defense of wildlife and forest all over the globe.

It's our leaders that this thread holds in question...for they are the ones with the power to make a difference beneath the influence of predatory instincts.

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by thruthseek3r
reply to post by Starchild23

 

I could not quote the entire text, so I will only reply. I get your point, but you are seeing the negative side of the medal. I am with you our basic instincts needs to be overwhelmed in a certain. The most important thing is learning to deal with it accordingly, we all can do it, if we wish to of course.

This is called wisdom and we all have it to a certain extent.

Concerning the two stone plates instead of fear and control, I see it more as being fear on a side and love on the other. This make a better complete balance in my opinion.

The to finish this post, I will tell you perception is reality through individual experience. The second you realize this reality can be changed through personal use of changed perception, life becomes something totally different. This is needs to be said more for all ATSers I think.




Thruthseek3r

Ah, yes. But two things:

One, I prefer to see the whole picture. That includes the shady parts.

Two, it's best to see things from a broad perspective. I am not the only person alive on this Earth, and so there are lots of different perspectives, and lots of different effects. With that said, it's best to see what we are doing as a whole, instead of accepting that individual perspectives are both irrelevant and unreliable and giving the whole thing up for lost.

We must examine the deepest shadows to find our demons, otherwise we will never see the light.

You are right concerning we have to face our demons. What I meant was there is a need to look at the whole picture. By this I only meant seeing the two sides of it instead of only the negative. Having a broader idea of the whole is the key in order to reach light.

I am with you on this one, only trying to give a little plus to it.





Sincerely,




Thruthseek3r

Originally posted by Balkan
We are who we are, animals that are driven by fear/survival-based instincts. We've always been aggressive and violent, and barring some miraculous genetic modification to our behavior (like breeding gentler dogs), these aspects of us will never change.

I think you are wrong. The way we behave is indoctinated by the enviroment that we have around ous and if a person is treated right he will not learn to fear or hate or have an ego. The problem is that people who hate, fear and have and ego can't educate a young kid to evolve without fear, hate and ego since he need it to protect himself against the oredetory behaviours we allow in the world. For instance Dalai Lama have lived his live with monks all his life and has been thought philosophy and critical thinking. He seem to be somewhat above the "normal" fear/survival-based instincts and so is very many spiritual people. But fear and hate and injustice can be a thing that shapes a person towards a way of thinking where you do always strive for the highest ideal of love, harmony and justice. The evolution of ous and our society is slower than I wished it would be but it is there. Either we evolve towards the ideal or we will destroy our selves with our corruption. Everything evolves/change and to belive that everything will stay the same always is an illusion. A human is different with every new moment she/he experiances. Namaste