Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by research100

 

Fair enough I didn't realise all this happened in the dark.

There were some people who swam ashore.

Still nothing like Titanic though.

The only real difference between this ship and the titanic that sank 100 years ago,is if this cruise ship was further out at sea in deeper waters and received a huge gash in its hull,it would be at the bottom of the ocean with thousands dead,just like the titanic...

On a Navy ship, almost everyone carries some kind of a flash light (torch for the euros). I always carried a AA maglite along with a leatherman tool on my belt.

Never know when the lights might go out. And it is really dark inside with lights out.

If I ever go on a cruise ship, I would carry one. I doubt I could enjoy a cruise. I would be too interested in the ship. See if I could get qualified and stand some watches.

The ship was double hulled, with an "ice cube tray" like dividers between the hulls. Most ships are designed so if a part gets flooded they can seal off the rest and she still floats. On a Navy ship you have a lot more people that will set the correct water tight condition, close the right doors and so forth after an announcement on the 1MC (announcing system).

I am not sure whether she would have sunk. Some of the commentary indicated the reason she tipped over is that they sailed her into too shallow of water. If the bottom is not flat that would tip it over. In deeper water they might have kept her upright and floating.

They say the hole is 100 feet. That is about 10% of her length. Depending on where the watertight bulkheads are it might have been possible to seal it off.

Originally posted by kawika
On a Navy ship, almost everyone carries some kind of a flash light (torch for the euros). I always carried a AA maglite along with a leatherman tool on my belt.

Never know when the lights might go out. And it is really dark inside with lights out.

If I ever go on a cruise ship, I would carry one. I doubt I could enjoy a cruise. I would be too interested in the ship. See if I could get qualified and stand some watches.

The ship was double hulled, with an "ice cube tray" like dividers between the hulls. Most ships are designed so if a part gets flooded they can seal off the rest and she still floats. On a Navy ship you have a lot more people that will set the correct water tight condition, close the right doors and so forth after an announcement on the 1MC (announcing system).

is it possible a complete failure of systems on board left the crew unawares as to the status of the safety sytems , doors , etc
?

I am not sure whether she would have sunk. Some of the commentary indicated the reason she tipped over is that they sailed her into too shallow of water. If the bottom is not flat that would tip it over. In deeper water they might have kept her upright and floating.

They say the hole is 100 feet. That is about 10% of her length. Depending on where the watertight bulkheads are it might have been possible to seal it off.

interesting points,esp regarding too shallow water,not flat bottom vessels will tip over without support ,

However after looking at a timeline and reading some accounts , and the apparent keeness by shipowners to blame the capt ,I am wondering if something happenend to the computer systems after the during the blackout /impact , that failed to close the water tight doors and resulting in almost free deck flooding (like roro ships/ferries) of the engine/power rooms.

on the map below , we can see that the ship hit its port side , travelling north approx ,after a collisionand approx an hr of blackout power resumes and the ship makes a hard (for a holed liner) left turnwhich naturally would lean the liner to stb (tilting right)as it turned, now IF the water tight doors where closed , the water already ingressed into the ship should be relatively contained, however if they are not the water would be relatively free to flow to stb and pitch the ship over away from the damaged side , to the shallower side.

Also the ships foward port stabilser is out , and undamaged!!! , possibly in an effort to stabilise the ship on the seabed?was this released after the accident or before ?I dont know the sop for this liner

www.bbc.co.uk...

Basically the ship listed ,semi capsized after /during the turn, suggesting to me free moving flooding and a major failiure of op systems?

just saw a clip. passenger says they didn't know how to lower the lifeboats....on her boat 1 side totally dropped they almost fell out, they wanted to be back on the big boat she said.

some descriptions in this article finance.yahoo.com...

reply to post by research100
Many of the millions of people who get on board these ships to go on cruises are so fixated on getting away from it all,having a good time and enjoying themselves,that they become mesmerized by the lavishness and luxuriousness of the whole situation.They often become like deer hypnotized by car headlights,blissfully unaware of how immense,deep and unforgiving the ocean actually is,how close they actually are to disaster and death.The precariousness of their own safety takes a back seat to the alcohol,the music and the lights and sometimes,without warning,reality awakens them from their self induced spell...

reply to post by blocula


Yes but, a big ship like that is really very safe when operated by experienced and competent people.

That is why Navy (surface) officers are so high strung. Anything ever goes wrong and you are fired, there is no excuse for grounding a ship.

And no second chances...

reply to post by kawika
Clipper Adventurer Cruise Ship Runs Aground in the Arctic - 2010... www.cruiselawnews.com...

Yarmouth Cruise Lines' Yarmouth Castle catches fire and sinks in 1965 > en.wikipedia.org...

5 cruises that ended in disaster > www.cbc.ca...

there is audio of the coast guard telling the captain to get back on the ship to help evacuate and he refusing...

news.yahoo.com...

some passengers were at the magic show, they said the magician had the assistant in the box to cut her in half t, the power went out, when it came back on he left, and left her in the box on the stage...what he couldn't take a sec and let her out???

that captain is screwed....

Five more bodies found today

cnn.com

Also of interest, it wasn't technical error.

Italian prosecutors have ruled out a technical error as the cause of the incident, saying the captain was on the bridge at the time and had made a "grave error."

That error being that he deliberately went off course into waters he didn't know.

Also, the article mentions they are retrieving the second black box.

it was mentioned that every cruise he would go really close to shore so passengers could take great pics, if true it was only a matter of time before this happened.

reply to post by Fitch303


No offense… but did you actually read my post and the edit which you quoted?

It could very well have been a kilo class submarine using an EMP charge of which both the Russians and the Chinese are the main suppliers, even Iran has such subs. This is a chemical explosion which disables all electromagnetics within its target area. It could be set off near the hull without penetrating it. That might explain why all the cabin doors stayed locked, their electrical activation being disabled, and why it took so long to get under power. It might also tell why the boat hit the rocks, without having an guidance systems active on a very dangerous coastline. The officers may have been ordered by the Italian authorities to immediately unboard and get debriefed and coached in a cover story, and the captain was designated the scapegoat. This would make a lot more sense than all the ship's equipment being unable to prevent such an event.

GS

Originally posted by Getsmart
It could very well have been a kilo class submarine using an EMP charge of which both the Russians and the Chinese are the main suppliers, even Iran has such subs. This is a chemical explosion which disables all electromagnetics within its target area. It could be set off near the hull without penetrating it. That might explain why all the cabin doors stayed locked, their electrical activation being disabled, and why it took so long to get under power. It might also tell why the boat hit the rocks, without having an guidance systems active on a very dangerous coastline. The officers may have been ordered by the Italian authorities to immediately unboard and get debriefed and coached in a cover story, and the captain was designated the scapegoat. This would make a lot more sense than all the ship's equipment being unable to prevent such an event.

GS

apart from the big rock in the hull?from the original impact eg impact then loss of power , not the other way around and i dont think an emp charge would effect a deisel inside what is a pretty big faraday cage?may be wrong on that but you have me thinking ..heehee

reply to post by blocula


I should clarify that I mean Navy crews and Navy ships of that size are safe because the crews are well trained and experienced. Old guys train the new guys.

Civilian crews probably hire kids cause they work cheap.

The captain of that ship looks way too young to be a captain. Navy Skipper is sometimes called "the old man", with good reason. The average age of service people is mid 20's, Skipper stands out a considerable older than everyone else, except maybe the crusty Chief or Warrant Officer. Present company excluded of course. Never call Chief anything except Chief.

reply to post by research100

some passengers were at the magic show, they said the magician had the assistant in the box to cut her in half t, the power went out, when it came back on he left, and left her in the box on the stage...what he couldn't take a sec and let her out???

Did the passengers get her out? I hope someone did...

What is wrong with these people?

reply to post by treesdancing


I get it. You expected more of a long scratch/cut rather than a big hole.

Ships don't really move sideways fast such that you could do that kind of damage going sideways.

Think of it like the way a dog moves, moving forward but on a diagonal. If they turn the ship, it is still moving forward, but then the impact would be more broadside. Maybe the depth sounder alarmed, they turned, still had an impact as they were turning. A ship will slide forward, turned a little, in the middle of a turn. Inertia at work.

Originally posted by gambon

Originally posted by Getsmart
It could very well have been a kilo class submarine using an EMP charge of which both the Russians and the Chinese are the main suppliers, even Iran has such subs. This is a chemical explosion which disables all electromagnetics within its target area. It could be set off near the hull without penetrating it. That might explain why all the cabin doors stayed locked, their electrical activation being disabled, and why it took so long to get under power. It might also tell why the boat hit the rocks, without having an guidance systems active on a very dangerous coastline. The officers may have been ordered by the Italian authorities to immediately unboard and get debriefed and coached in a cover story, and the captain was designated the scapegoat. This would make a lot more sense than all the ship's equipment being unable to prevent such an event.

GS

apart from the big rock in the hull?from the original impact eg impact then loss of power , not the other way around and i dont think an emp charge would effect a deisel inside what is a pretty big faraday cage?may be wrong on that but you have me thinking ..heehee

And that's why he went completely the wrong way around the island, sailed too close to the shore, people died, he was first of the ship, joined as a security guard in 2002 and then as a captain in 2006?
He tried to show off and went to close to the shore in waters he didn't know putting thousands of lives at risk and was responsible for the deaths of passengers.
No conspiracy there at all, pure incompetence and stupidity and I hope he gets the jail for life for what he did.
As for the crew, they couldn't hold a party in a brewery, they tried to get off before helping others as they should have done either. They took the passengers money for the cruise and to hell with them when something went wrong as it did.
May the dead and still to found RIP, my heart goes out to them and their families.

On BBC Newsnight just now there is a guy saying that the track the ship took was exactly the same track it always takes. They can tell from the GPS/satellite navigation recordings.

Will have to wait and see what comes out later but at the moment it's still a mystery.

Originally posted by bigyin
On BBC Newsnight just now there is a guy saying that the track the ship took was exactly the same track it always takes. They can tell from the GPS/satellite navigation recordings.

Will have to wait and see what comes out later but at the moment it's still a mystery.

Sky news said it went the wrong way around the island on their news a few hours ago....

reply to post by scotsdavy1



hmmm ... ic... well I just thought I would mention it.

Maybe I heard him wrong. The programme will be on HERE soon