Aliens and the question of religion

Hi,
Do you remember the "Contact" movie with Jodie Foster ?
There's a question in that movie that I like. Unfortunately i did not find a video to show you what I am talking about so i will explain it (if anyone can find that specific bit in the movie.. thanks)

So, that's the moment where they have to choose who's gonna try the alien machine which will be used to make the first contact and send the chosen one far away, maybe in another galaxy, and Jodie Foster is willing to go. She doesn't believe in god or in any religion, she's agnostic i think, or even atheist, i don't clearly remember. Finally after the discussions, she learn that she will not be the one to try the machine and she is upset. Her friend, who is a priest and a member of the council, tells her the following : "I am sorry I did not vote for you, because i can't choose as representative of mankind someone who thinks that 90% of human beings are victim of (mass) hallucination regarding god".

So, what do you think of that situation ? I am myself an agnostic and i totally understand what the priest is arguing, while i really think that mankind is really suffering of a massive hallucination, or fantasy, or call it what you want. What would be the best choice in your opinion ? In that situation, like in the movie, should we put aside religion and act like a scientific species, or do you think that religion and god is something of too much importance to just ignore it in the process ?

This is also a potential question about "what if those aliens have beliefs of their own?", which form could their beliefs take? Would it be unimaginable to think that their beliefs and our monotheistic religions could be somewhat compatible ?

And as a last question : which form of alien "religion" can you imagine ?

reply to post by gosseyn


The saw the movie (good movie), and remember the scenes your talking about.

The thing is, in real life, I don't think religion should play an issue in regards to first contact.

IMO the people who will make "first contact" (public), should be someone smart enough to to determine the alien's agenda and can both be "diplomatic" to the aliens as well as tell them (kindly) that there is no point in colonizing the planet as we'll nuke it to hell before we hand it over to you. lol

reply to post by gosseyn


I can't offer anything but a personal view... but, at the very least, there is little room to separate god from ET from where I sit. Our interpretations and writings would reflect that separation. ET and god... by any name, could be one in the same... and in my opinion, quite likely are just that.

I don't agree with the current way we divide the two subjects. We speak of our faith and then of ET as if one were imaginary and the other quite real. Which is which? Your choice... but the more you consider the possibilities, the less ground you find between the two.

Someday, if we survive both ourselves and a visit from ET, we might ourselves become that creature to another species. We might demonstrate capabilities only available to a god to beings less advanced than ourselves. We might also have the chance to corrupt their evolution by sharing our abilities to make weapons and war. They then might model their own culture in our image, warring and conquering until someday when they strike out for the stars and spread the same.

I am no longer sure that our self-destructive tendencies are unique to our species... but rather, perhaps, a shared trait that is helped along at times. Those angels and demons may be nothing more than who we are already... based on the instinct to survive at all costs and then turned inward.

Just a few thoughts

reply to post by gosseyn


Nice thread, and an interesting situation to ponder.

Hypothetically if we were to make any sort of contact, and afforded the opportunity to prepare in advance, the choice of the first contactee would be an overwhelming responsibility! On so many levels..

But concerning the spiritual beliefs alone, I personally lean towards the preference of a "agnostic" because honestly who on this planet really knows?? No matter what your beliefs are spiritually, and religiously no man honestly knows the nature of god until our life on earth ends. By selecting someone that has the intelligence, and insight to accept that fact I believe we would at least be taking a step in the right direction representing the level of evolution of our society.

I do also believe that person should have a strong faith based system in their life as well. I think our ability to have faith is a quality that should be expressed, as it is a cornerstone of humanity. That being said I feel that a radical, or "closed-minded" adherence to those beliefs only shows our lack of consciousness and understanding, so a middle ground is preferred.

Selecting an atheist, I believe would be the worst possible choice based on the reasons above. By stating you know emphatically any sort of "god" doesn't exist in my opinion your truly showing your ignorance, and that would be a horrible first impression!

Somewhere in the bible it says 'man is made in the image of god'

I always reckoned that when aliens come along they would have to go into a huddle and come up with an explanation that makes aliens OK. This is exactly what they have done.

Recently the pope said that god also makes aliens but he made man in his own image. - see, nice and neat a?

To the OP,

I loved the movie. I also believe that religion should have nothing to do with first contact, but if someone who was of a religious belief system was chosen to be the one for first contact I would not object... reason being their belief does not matter in this situation. They are chosen to represent humanity in general and collectively we do not all agree on the existence of a God. Which means that their own belief won't have any bearing and I doubt we would pick someone to represent us who is going to cry God to the aliens.

So final answer. We should not base our decision for contact on what a persons individual belief is, we should base it on who is the best for the job, and belief has effect on that.

Originally posted by bussoboy
Somewhere in the bible it says 'man is made in the image of god'

I always reckoned that when aliens come along they would have to go into a huddle and come up with an explanation that makes aliens OK. This is exactly what they have done.

Recently the pope said that god also makes aliens but he made man in his own image. - see, nice and neat a?

Its in the book of Genesis and it says God made man in "their image" not "his"...
Think about that for a second...
I am pretty sure that the ET's are more likely to be our creators than us being a creation of some omnipotent sky daddy.

Originally posted by bussoboy
Somewhere in the bible it says 'man is made in the image of god'

I always reckoned that when aliens come along they would have to go into a huddle and come up with an explanation that makes aliens OK. This is exactly what they have done.

Recently the pope said that god also makes aliens but he made man in his own image. - see, nice and neat a?

i hate it when things like that happen if you have a religion you cant change it to fit modern beliefs if god really did exist i think he would be smart enough to put some stuff un the bible that we may not understand now but as society progresses we do
but changing it as it goes along just shows they are grasping at straws to keep the religion boat afloat

reply to post by gosseyn


Alien religion is "Scence" - Which makes me wonder if that is where Scientology comes from

As an athiest I'm inclined to think that aliens would not even have a word for religion.

Human.
Hi Mr alien, I'm from earth and I'd like to know if you believe in god?

Alien.
Who is god?

Human.
God is a supernatural being and he created everything.

I am reminded of the cadbury smash commercial and the laughing aliens

I cant read your post at the moment as I have actually just started listening to the Audio Book in the last couple of days. I shall check back upon its completion!

reply to post by gosseyn


Carl Sagen, the author of the book from which the movie "Contact" closely followed, was Jewish, but not a believer in God either. (See his bio by Williams Poundstone.) My opinion from the movie and especially from reading the book and his bio is that the ETs were represented as near-God-like from our current human perspective without exactly saying such. Sagan believed in early contacts with ETs coming to Earth to teach science and government (see his book with I.S. Shklovskii "Intelligent Life in the Universe") I suspect that, as many of us, he also believed that religions were not precisely given by the ETs but humans on the scene and later made religions out of the less mystical visitations.

I really don't think religion should play a part in any way and that the best person for the job, perhaps chosen from a pool of people who have studied language and anthropology (Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Atheist) should be our Ambassador. We'd need someone who has skills in public speaking, maybe some science, good social skills.

Saying that an atheist can't go is a bit nuts and actually offensive (although I shall always remain agnostic) IMHO. Religion is great at creating an us vs. them mentality and that's exactly what "we" don't need when visiting "them".

While "Contact" was a great film and the line about religion a cute addition, I suspect it was there to appeal to the large American audience. Religious people are very sensitive to having their beliefs ignored and this line helped assuage those feelings, welcoming another million or so punters into the theatre. I doubt that line would be there if the film had been made in a less secular country like Australia or England or even Europe. Non-Americans simply don't think that way. In fact, here in Australia we've actually had big issues with Christians in our politics. Even Christians haven't been comfortable with politicians faith being mentioned in interviews. It smells too much like alterior motive. If "god" was mentioned in an Aussie or Brit political speech (as it is in so many American politicians) that would signal the end of that person's career. Not, as it is in the US, the beginning.

The problem with religious people is that they tend to see atheists or other religious people as a threat to their way of life. "If youre right, that makes me wrong" which leads to "Are you calling me a liar?" which in turn leads to "the right to defend" myself (often interpreted as "attack") in a public space with a gun.

I'm not sure that sending a devout Christian to meet with (try to covert?) a Pleiadian is a good idea. Might be best to send an agnostic or at least someone who has a big (non confrontational) interest in human / alien belief systems and ways of life without it influencing their opinion / re-telling of their trip to other humans. Not necessarily a scientist though.

Originally posted by tetriswoooo
i hate it when things like that happen if you have a religion you cant change it to fit modern beliefs

Well the Church almost killed Galileo for his ideas. They just recently apologized for that 'misunderstanding'

if god really did exist i think he would be smart enough to put some stuff un the bible that we may not understand now but as society progresses we do

There is

Christ said, "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd " (John 10:16).

Scholars today still argue about where those other flocks of sheep are

Originally posted by VoidHawk
As an athiest I'm inclined to think that aliens would not even have a word for religion.

The only problem with that is that the Greys have long been associated with being gathers of our souls and guardians of the 'containers'

In regards to the OP, particularly with the referenced scene in Contact - which was probably the most resonating point of that movie - is the simple clashing of science and religion.

realize that humanity has evolved through science, not religion. religion has never advanced humanity; it has, for the most part, done exactly opposite throughout recorded history. but the one element of religion is being part of something greater, something truly cosmic, and that is what is presented by arroways trip thru the machine, when she meets "them' and gets an inkling of what is out there.

and it's not religion.

with regards to an alien religion, why not? however, the more scientific a species, the less of a need for religion they would have. and an interstellar-faring species would have little use for religion; their understanding of the universe would make them 'gods' to any who possessed less knowledge of such things.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by VoidHawk
As an athiest I'm inclined to think that aliens would not even have a word for religion.

The only problem with that is that the Greys have long been associated with being gathers of our souls and guardians of the 'containers'

Bah...who associates that? I only heard a single person discuss that, a former ATSer whom is also a little bit erm...touched.
soul sucking moon towers and whatnot...and it is that very subject that made me see through him considering he gave an inconsistent response about it...I mean, if your going to go with the most wild and insane idea..at least go over it and see any flaws in saying everyone is stored, and then they are also meeting one another at death...

anyhow. hogwash. aliens being janitors of the earth is something said by a few, but more on the scale of genetic monitoring moreso than soul harvesting.

i believe in aliens and god. our dna is to complex to just randomly come out of no where. god created life and also alien life i doubt were the only ones.i think evolution is a tool by god on how he made us and how life works god created evolution and science the bible is just the simplified version of life.think about this what sounds more realistic life coming from non life or life coming from god.god isnt human like us he is consiousness we all have god within us.just look at how complex our dna and bodies are how is it possible for that to just come from non life like how mainstream scientist beilieve .when people think of god they think of the god on tv the personified version of god but god isnt human nor physical because he created the physical plane.how can he be physical when he created the physical universe there is so much we dont know we are bearly understanding the world around us one day science and religion will meet and it will be the same thing.and for the people who use evolution for trying to disprove god why cant evolution be used by god? life isnt simple like how we think its very complex and i think evolution is just a tool of god to guide life somehow idk . one day .we will know forsure though

reply to post by gosseyn


I think an atheist or especially an agnostic might be best, because they don't believe strongly in anything so they won't be broken emotionally to learn they are wrong.

If aliens have a religion it must apply to multiple species and must be in harmony with science. Buddhism seems like a good religion for them. But maybe their science is so different that Buddhism would seem childish.

Originally posted by gosseyn
Hi,
Do you remember the "Contact" movie with Jodie Foster ?
There's a question in that movie that I like. Unfortunately i did not find a video to show you what I am talking about so i will explain it (if anyone can find that specific bit in the movie.. thanks)

So, that's the moment where they have to choose who's gonna try the alien machine which will be used to make the first contact and send the chosen one far away, maybe in another galaxy, and Jodie Foster is willing to go. She doesn't believe in god or in any religion, she's agnostic i think, or even atheist, i don't clearly remember. Finally after the discussions, she learn that she will not be the one to try the machine and she is upset. Her friend, who is a priest and a member of the council, tells her the following : "I am sorry I did not vote for you, because i can't choose as representative of mankind someone who thinks that 90% of human beings are victim of (mass) hallucination regarding god".

So, what do you think of that situation ? I am myself an agnostic and i totally understand what the priest is arguing, while i really think that mankind is really suffering of a massive hallucination, or fantasy, or call it what you want. What would be the best choice in your opinion ? In that situation, like in the movie, should we put aside religion and act like a scientific species, or do you think that religion and god is something of too much importance to just ignore it in the process ?

This is also a potential question about "what if those aliens have beliefs of their own?", which form could their beliefs take? Would it be unimaginable to think that their beliefs and our monotheistic religions could be somewhat compatible ?

And as a last question : which form of alien "religion" can you imagine ?

Thats the problem with people who don't believe in God - they think that reality is a "massive hallucination, or fantasy." There is no hope for us in this world anymore.

Our religion is based upon Aliens.

The Aliens are just like us, they like Death and War to Conquer. They consider other life forms below them and enjoy the slaughter of innocent life forms to spread only their creation.

Even the Aliens fight amongst themselves for power and control. (Fallen Angels).

Religion is the belief in Aliens. Life Forms not of this Earth, far advanced than we are.