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Is God’s justice close to an eye for an eye?

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posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
An eye for an eye does not apply to Christians, revenge is sinful. For Jesus said in Matthew 5:39 - "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."


And that works for you does it?

If a man rapes your wife, what do you do? Offer your daughter as his next?

Recognize that most of what was put into Jesus' mouth was un-workable rhetoric.

How about the women who cannot divorce their husbands that beat them twice a week because Jesus will not change his divorce policy that says, let no man put asunder.

Regards
DL




posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


How can you judge me of liking murder? Jesus' death seems sorrowful to me, but He took on the sins of the whole world. Either you accept this or die in your sins. You act as we have an alternative to salvation. It is only our pride which tells us we can be saved without God's grace. Without faith, no work can get you into heaven. Yet faith alone is not enough. Nothing unholy will enter heaven.
edit on 14-1-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)


Sorrowful but not enough to get you out of the line to profit from his murder.
One would expect Satan to do what you are doing.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL



posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Is God’s justice close to an eye for an eye?

There are many references in scripture that indicate that an eye for an eye is good justice. This notion that a penalty should fit the crime has even been adopted by most legal system in the world.

Leviticus 24:20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.



Sigh. This is the problem of equating biblical text to God's divine word. "An eye for and eye" is part of the Code of Hammurabi" which was law under the Babylonian King, Hammurabi. It's NOT the word or law of God!



The Code of Hammurabi is a well-preserved Babylonian law code, dating back to about 1772 BC. It is one of the oldest deciphered writings of significant length in the world. The sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi, enacted the code, and partial copies exist on a human-sized stone stele and various clay tablets. The Code consists of 282 laws, with scaled punishments, adjusting "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" (lex talionis)[1] as graded depending on social status, of slave versus free man.[2]
Nearly one-half of the Code deals with matters of contract, establishing for example the wages to be paid to an ox driver or a surgeon. Other provisions set the terms of a transaction, establishing the liability of a builder for a house that collapses, for example, or property that is damaged while left in the care of another. A third of the code addresses issues concerning household and family relationships such as inheritance, divorce, paternity and sexual behavior. Only one provision appears to impose obligations on an official; this provision establishes that a judge who reaches an incorrect decision is to be fined and removed from the bench permanently.[3] A handful of provisions address issues related to military service.

The Code Of Hammurabi





An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Mahatma Gandhi,




Only a fool would think that Christianity has anything original in it.

The point is that that code Christianity has used and the killing code is right beside it and Christians should not be able to see which law should be enforced.

Regards
DL



posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


There is no contradiction in scripture, it is your understanding that is causing contradiction.

In the Old Testament man was afraid of God. God gave them exactly what they wanted. Laws. Laws have to be enforced some way. Because many wanted laws to live by and an earthly king he gave them what they asked for. The laws that they were given would have been considered fair and rightouse by the standards of men at the time.

Christ came to give man a new law. It was not really a new law but it was the old law made formal. The first law given to Adam and Eve was love me enough to listen to me, for I know what is best. They refused and death was the penalty. Man asked for laws again and still death was the penalty. So you see the law actually teaches sin, and brings death.

The new law, love, teaches righteousness and brings life. I guess we should all be happy that we are allowed to live under the new law. In this way we no longer have to live by the standard of men, which is an eye for an eye.

We now live under the standard of love. This does not mean that we don’t have the duty to keep dangerous people in jail, but it does mean we should try and love our enemy.

As Gandhi said “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”


Love eh?
Did God love at Sodom or in the days of genocide in Noah's time?

www.youtube.com...

Comments?

Regards
DL



posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Way to take Jesus' words out of context to twist them to mean we should not defend ourselves.

Atheists like you know no bounds in how ignorant you can become...

And you just totally fabricated the last part up. No wonder atheists are the least trusted people in society.
edit on 19-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Way to take Jesus' words out of context to twist them to mean we should not defend ourselves.

Atheists like you know no bounds in how ignorant you can become...

And you just totally fabricated the last part up. No wonder atheists are the least trusted people in society.
edit on 19-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


Is this comment on ignorance and trust an example of you "defending" yourself, or of "turning the other cheek?"






Matthew 5:39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 5:40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.



Matthew 19:6
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.


He didn't make that up.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Way to take Jesus' words out of context to twist them to mean we should not defend ourselves.

Atheists like you know no bounds in how ignorant you can become...

And you just totally fabricated the last part up. No wonder atheists are the least trusted people in society.
edit on 19-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


I am not an atheist.
I just have a moral God compared to your genocidal son murderer.

And where did I indicate that we should not defend ourselves.
That would be dumb. Just as dumb as turning the other cheek.

Regards
DL



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Way to take Jesus' words out of context to twist them to mean we should not defend ourselves.

Atheists like you know no bounds in how ignorant you can become...

And you just totally fabricated the last part up. No wonder atheists are the least trusted people in society.
edit on 19-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


Is this comment on ignorance and trust an example of you "defending" yourself, or of "turning the other cheek?"






Matthew 5:39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 5:40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.



Matthew 19:6
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.


He didn't make that up.


True. I have a phobia against lying thanks to my being an absent minded fellow who is afraid to forget that he lied.

Let us see if our friend has enough honesty to recant.

Regards
DL



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


This concerns you because you don't understand Noah's flood, or Sodom and Gomorra. What concern is it of anyone who's physical body God decides to destroy? God is the judge and he judges fairly. Does the creator not have the right to do whatever he knows is best?

The bible didn't say that all the people who lived prior to Noah or even say that anyone from Sodom and Gomorra where going to be cast into the lake of fire. It would be foolish to assume that all of them or even any of them are going to suffer the second death. I am not the judge and I believe God when he says he is a righteous judge. So I will let God be the judge, and I will refrain from judging God.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Way to take Jesus' words out of context to twist them to mean we should not defend ourselves.

Atheists like you know no bounds in how ignorant you can become...

And you just totally fabricated the last part up. No wonder atheists are the least trusted people in society.
edit on 19-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


But we should not defend ourselves, at least not with violence or anger. We are allowed to defend ourselves with the truth, the word of God only. We are called to turn the other cheek. Not turn the other cheek unless you feel like you need to defend yourself. Do you think Christ had to die on the Cross? I imagine he was showing us what he meant by turn the other cheek. Along with the many other lessons of the Cross. This is the type of faith that Jesus is calling for.
edit on 22-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
An eye for an eye does not apply to Christians, revenge is sinful. For Jesus said in Matthew 5:39 - "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."


And that works for you does it?

If a man rapes your wife, what do you do? Offer your daughter as his next?

Recognize that most of what was put into Jesus' mouth was un-workable rhetoric.

How about the women who cannot divorce their husbands that beat them twice a week because Jesus will not change his divorce policy that says, let no man put asunder.

Regards
DL


That is why Christ did not do away with the law my friend. As a Christian we should turn the other cheek. For the lawless we are to hand them over to those that enforce the laws.

1 Timothy 1:9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Way to take Jesus' words out of context to twist them to mean we should not defend ourselves.

Atheists like you know no bounds in how ignorant you can become...

And you just totally fabricated the last part up. No wonder atheists are the least trusted people in society.
edit on 19-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


Would you mind me asking what society you live in?

You're willing to judge an entire group of people as "untrustworthy" because they don't believe in your God?

In actuality i've found that so called "christians" are the ones that are less trustworthy... they are the ones that proclaim to know God, yet manage to murder steal and even rape others... Check how many "christians" are in your areas prison my friend... you'll find there are more "christians" then there are athiests...

I believe that statement is completely false.... and slightly disgusting honestly




posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Sorry but Jesus was not a pacifist. He did not mean we should let ourselves get beat up by "turn the other cheek".

There is a time for violence but its best that we try to avoid it, we are allowed to defend ourselves and our family and people who are being picked on by others.

Ecclesiastes 3:1 - "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven"



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


That would be called idolatry.

Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.

First commandment.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


How can you judge me of liking murder? Jesus' death seems sorrowful to me, but He took on the sins of the whole world. Either you accept this or die in your sins. You act as we have an alternative to salvation. It is only our pride which tells us we can be saved without God's grace. Without faith, no work can get you into heaven. Yet faith alone is not enough. Nothing unholy will enter heaven.
edit on 14-1-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)


Sorrowful but not enough to get you out of the line to profit from his murder.
One would expect Satan to do what you are doing.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL


Only God can draw out good from evil. If you do not profit from His murder in hell you will be because He knew what was coming and did it for the sake of convicting the world of its sins and saving mankind from death everlasting.
edit on 23-1-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Way to take Jesus' words out of context to twist them to mean we should not defend ourselves.

Atheists like you know no bounds in how ignorant you can become...

And you just totally fabricated the last part up. No wonder atheists are the least trusted people in society.
edit on 19-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


But we should not defend ourselves, at least not with violence or anger. We are allowed to defend ourselves with the truth, the word of God only. We are called to turn the other cheek. Not turn the other cheek unless you feel like you need to defend yourself. Do you think Christ had to die on the Cross? I imagine he was showing us what he meant by turn the other cheek. Along with the many other lessons of the Cross. This is the type of faith that Jesus is calling for.
edit on 22-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)


Wow, I actually agree with you. I think God is long-suffering and we should be long-suffering too



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 08:02 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


I admit that even as a 'Christian' (Disciple of Christ) I don't have a full and complete understanding of Gods Law. I do know that Biblical Scripture says that it is impossible to know and comprehend the mind of God so anything you or I say will just ultimately be speculation. I do know that in Matthew Jesus told His disciples that he hadn't come to abolish the Law of Moses (Levitical Law) but rather to fulfill it because we humans are incapable of doing so.

I think (this is just my opinion) that the Old Law of an eye for an eye or the Law of Blood Atonement is fulfilled by Jesus and that we are now commanded to live by the law of love and forgiveness. Paul said that we were to be lead by the Spirit of God rather than the Law. That is what I think.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Way to take Jesus' words out of context to twist them to mean we should not defend ourselves.

Atheists like you know no bounds in how ignorant you can become...

And you just totally fabricated the last part up. No wonder atheists are the least trusted people in society.
edit on 19-1-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)


But we should not defend ourselves, at least not with violence or anger. We are allowed to defend ourselves with the truth, the word of God only. We are called to turn the other cheek. Not turn the other cheek unless you feel like you need to defend yourself. Do you think Christ had to die on the Cross? I imagine he was showing us what he meant by turn the other cheek. Along with the many other lessons of the Cross. This is the type of faith that Jesus is calling for.
edit on 22-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)


Wow, I actually agree with you. I think God is long-suffering and we should be long-suffering too


However I will give you an example where violence is righteous: when the innocent are suffering. For example, do you believe Jesus would condemn a soldier who fought the Nazis? If someone is suffering and you do nothing then you cannot say you love him.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by I Want To Believe
 

I do know that in Matthew Jesus told His disciples that he hadn't come to abolish the Law of Moses (Levitical Law) but rather to fulfill it because we humans are incapable of doing so.
The serious sort of academic biblical scholarship which I am trying to restrict my reading sources to would have the proper understanding of the phrase "to fulfill the law" to mean not that he was going to act it out, but it is his reinterpretation of the law to a different standard of universality and of being of a spiritual nature.

I think (this is just my opinion) that the Old Law of an eye for an eye or the Law of Blood Atonement is fulfilled by Jesus and that we are now commanded to live by the law of love and forgiveness. Paul said that we were to be lead by the Spirit of God rather than the Law.
Maybe, what you said of these aspects of the law being fulfilled, if you were to apply the definition I gave which interprets what Jesus did for the law in general. Jesus says there is a righteousness in himself which fulfills an even higher standard than we can even comprehend, outside of the old written law, and brings in another system where God forgives sin in the name of Jesus and Jesus in turn, in his name, gives us the Holy Spirit to be able to live a life towards the righteousness of Jesus.

edit on 23-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


This concerns you because you don't understand Noah's flood, or Sodom and Gomorra. What concern is it of anyone who's physical body God decides to destroy? God is the judge and he judges fairly. Does the creator not have the right to do whatever he knows is best?

The bible didn't say that all the people who lived prior to Noah or even say that anyone from Sodom and Gomorra where going to be cast into the lake of fire. It would be foolish to assume that all of them or even any of them are going to suffer the second death. I am not the judge and I believe God when he says he is a righteous judge. So I will let God be the judge, and I will refrain from judging God.


You have judged God.

You found him good and a righteous judge.
You have given a value judgment and that is judging.

Stop trying to lie to us.

You have judged your genocidal son murderer as good.

I judge such an insane God as evil.

The same goes for any religion that relies on human sacrifice and a God who can be swayed by bribes.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

Regards
DL



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