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Is God’s justice close to an eye for an eye?

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posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by 547000
 

. . . but He took on the sins of the whole world . . .

What does this even mean, and how is it possible that accepting this thing that looks like a bumper-sticker slogan determine your ultimate eternal fate?
edit on 14-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


It is a mystery. Either you accept the mystery and be saved or you laugh at it and perish.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by 547000
 


So what you do is throw out an encrypted message and say, If you can not decipher this and adopt it as a belief, you will be eternally punished?



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am
Is God’s justice close to an eye for an eye?

There are many references in scripture that indicate that an eye for an eye is good justice. This notion that a penalty should fit the crime has even been adopted by most legal system in the world.

Leviticus 24:20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.



Sigh. This is the problem of equating biblical text to God's divine word. "An eye for and eye" is part of the Code of Hammurabi" which was law under the Babylonian King, Hammurabi. It's NOT the word or law of God!



The Code of Hammurabi is a well-preserved Babylonian law code, dating back to about 1772 BC. It is one of the oldest deciphered writings of significant length in the world. The sixth Babylonian king, Hammurabi, enacted the code, and partial copies exist on a human-sized stone stele and various clay tablets. The Code consists of 282 laws, with scaled punishments, adjusting "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" (lex talionis)[1] as graded depending on social status, of slave versus free man.[2]
Nearly one-half of the Code deals with matters of contract, establishing for example the wages to be paid to an ox driver or a surgeon. Other provisions set the terms of a transaction, establishing the liability of a builder for a house that collapses, for example, or property that is damaged while left in the care of another. A third of the code addresses issues concerning household and family relationships such as inheritance, divorce, paternity and sexual behavior. Only one provision appears to impose obligations on an official; this provision establishes that a judge who reaches an incorrect decision is to be fined and removed from the bench permanently.[3] A handful of provisions address issues related to military service.

The Code Of Hammurabi





An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Mahatma Gandhi,



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by 547000
 


So what you do is throw out an encrypted message and say, If you can not decipher this and adopt it as a belief, you will be eternally punished?


You're being very foolish if you think you can understand God's mysteries while on Earth. You can either take it on faith that Jesus took unto himself the sins of the earth or you can try to intellectualize it and fail or fall into heresy.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 04:34 AM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


There is no contradiction in scripture, it is your understanding that is causing contradiction.

In the Old Testament man was afraid of God. God gave them exactly what they wanted. Laws. Laws have to be enforced some way. Because many wanted laws to live by and an earthly king he gave them what they asked for. The laws that they were given would have been considered fair and rightouse by the standards of men at the time.

Christ came to give man a new law. It was not really a new law but it was the old law made formal. The first law given to Adam and Eve was love me enough to listen to me, for I know what is best. They refused and death was the penalty. Man asked for laws again and still death was the penalty. So you see the law actually teaches sin, and brings death.

The new law, love, teaches righteousness and brings life. I guess we should all be happy that we are allowed to live under the new law. In this way we no longer have to live by the standard of men, which is an eye for an eye.

We now live under the standard of love. This does not mean that we don’t have the duty to keep dangerous people in jail, but it does mean we should try and love our enemy.

As Gandhi said “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 

You're being very foolish if you think you can understand God's mysteries while on Earth. You can either take it on faith that Jesus took unto himself the sins of the earth or you can try to intellectualize it and fail or fall into heresy.
You are only repeating your earlier claim.
What I am trying to understand is your sentence which seems to be spliced together from parts of a couple different verses to say something rather novel so I am asking for clarification and to find out if there is an actual coherent thought behind it or is it just you repeating a slogan you heard at church or somewhere.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Yes, there is coherent thought, but the meaning I cannot say. In the garden he felt the full weight of his task and was almost overcome. All the scriptures point to him being the sacrificial lamb.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.



Sounds about right wouldn't you say?



As compared to all the places where we are told to kill for infractions that are less than killing, sure.

Thing is, is we are to follow God's law, we have no idea what it is because of scriptural contradictions.

Who is insane enough to hand their souls on contradictions.

Regards
DL



But as i've told you before... God didn't write the bible...

IF you take the entire bible as "Gods word" then its easy to get confused...

See if you can find a spot where Jesus contradicted himself




posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Dear jmdewey60,

Forgive me for jumping into a conversation between you and 547000, but I felt like butting in and throwing out an idea or two on what that saying might mean.

One possibility is that Jesus took the results of the sins of the world on Himself. All the bad Karma, so to speak. All the shame and misery and guilt and separation from God. That weight began to be displayed in the garden, just before His arrest, and continued through "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"

A second possibility for the meaning is that whatever sentence God's justice had to impose on sin would be paid for by Jesus. This would then give individuals the choice on whether to be part of the deal or not. They could let Jesus cover the costs for them, or go along without Him.

Of course, both of these could be true, or neither. After all, it was introduced by 547000 and I can't speak for him.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 
It was not just introduced but used as a threat of damnation not to believe.
I find it a little odd, people claiming to be God, it seems, creating their own religion and damning everyone who does not agree with it. You know, write your own Bible then become judge of the world.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by 547000
 


So what you do is throw out an encrypted message and say, If you can not decipher this and adopt it as a belief, you will be eternally punished?


You're being very foolish if you think you can understand God's mysteries while on Earth. You can either take it on faith that Jesus took unto himself the sins of the earth or you can try to intellectualize it and fail or fall into heresy.


There is another option, you could actually believe what the God promises in the bible. You could read the bible yourself fully expecting the Holy Spirit to interpret if for you. I know this sounds unbelievable but God is really that cool. He gave you a book and provided a helper for you to understand it. Now understanding the book may not give you a full understanding of God but it will give you a full understanding of the bible. Which for me is good enough.

It is possible to fully understand the bible, you only need to have faith that God will do what he promises.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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Matthew 5:39 - "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
See if you can find a spot where Jesus contradicted himself


Easy...


Jesus says in Matthew 5:22


But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


I bolded for easier reference.

Now later in Matthew Jesus angrily goes on to say this:


Matthew 23:17
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?


Then he calls them fools again two verses later.










edit on 15-1-2012 by novastrike81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 

I wonder if this is as much of a contradiction as it seems.

Jesus says in Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:
Matthew 23:17
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

Then he calls them fools again two verses later

Actually he calls them fools all open and down this chapter. He is royally pissed.


Matthew 23:13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.
17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’
19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it
22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.


It goes on and on, but these guys are definitely on Jesus' wrong list. AND HE HAS REASONS to put them there.

I don't see a contradiction.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 

Two different words in the Greek where the thing not to call someone means an idiot, and where the one used by Jesus means godless.

edit on 15-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by novastrike81

Originally posted by Akragon
See if you can find a spot where Jesus contradicted himself


Easy...


Jesus says in Matthew 5:22


But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


I bolded for easier reference.

Now later in Matthew Jesus angrily goes on to say this:


Matthew 23:17
Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?


Then he calls them fools again two verses later.


edit on 15-1-2012 by novastrike81 because: (no reason given)


understandable that you pointed this out... i was actually expecting it...

Though you did miss one major factor... He was speaking to others... himself being excluded from judgement by calling someone a fool...

You might be asking why is he excluded from this judgement?

Look here...

14Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

15Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

16And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

The issue he has is with people that call others fools when they do not necessarily know that person... Jesus knew the hearts of all men... So he also knew of someone was truely a fool or not...




posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by 547000
 


So what you do is throw out an encrypted message and say, If you can not decipher this and adopt it as a belief, you will be eternally punished?


You're being very foolish if you think you can understand God's mysteries while on Earth. You can either take it on faith that Jesus took unto himself the sins of the earth or you can try to intellectualize it and fail or fall into heresy.


There is another option, you could actually believe what the God promises in the bible. You could read the bible yourself fully expecting the Holy Spirit to interpret if for you. I know this sounds unbelievable but God is really that cool. He gave you a book and provided a helper for you to understand it. Now understanding the book may not give you a full understanding of God but it will give you a full understanding of the bible. Which for me is good enough.

It is possible to fully understand the bible, you only need to have faith that God will do what he promises.


Please explain what the bible means when it said He died for our inequities. Explain the mystery of the crucifixion. You can understand it your own way, but it doesn't guarantee your own interpretation is true. The Holy Spirit leads the church to truth, not each individual always. The individual is supposed to listen to church authority. If each individual was lead to truth there wouldn't be so many heresies and schisms.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by 547000
 

. . . He died for our inequities . . .

I think part of your problem is you are quoting slogans and not the Bible.
If you were God, you could make slogans into biblical truth,
anyone else is just being delusional.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by 547000
 


Jesus did die for the forgiveness of sin. Now that you know that as a fact do you think you should keep crucifying him every day by continuing to live in sin? If you call yourself a Christian, A follower of Christ, you need to separate yourself from sin.

The message of the Cross

Do the will of your father, even if it means crucifixion.
Forgiveness of sin, even the sin of killing the son, understanding your forgiven allows you to come back into the light, it should not keep you in the darkness.
Turn the other cheek, always.
Proof of the resurrection
Proof that Jesus was the son of God

The message of the cross is forgiveness of sin; it is not a free pass to continue to live a life trapped in a continual state of sin and repentance.



1 Corinthians 1:10-17 10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.


Why do you call yourself a follower of Peter? Simply because of the churches incorrect interpretation of one line of scripture? An interpretation that I know is incorrect because it directly contradicts several other verses in the bible.

Is each person lead to the truth?
You are correct, but most are like you. You can't be lead to the truth because you don't believe that you can. I have shown you many times scripture that PROVES what I am saying is true.



John 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father.

Mathew 21:22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."


If you have faith that the Holy Spirit will interpret the bible for you, than the Holy Spirit will interpret it for you. Pray for it, believe it, and you will receive it.

I am not asking you to believe that you will perform miracles. I am only asking that you believe the Holy Spirit will interpret the bible for you.

edit on 16-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



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