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WHY are all UFO's infinitely connected with Aliens?

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posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by DarkKnight76
reply to post by Diablos
 


Isn't it just as bad science, saying that these certainly are not alien spacecraft, as saying they certainly are? I can't say either way what those remaining unidentified cases are, they could be Superman flying around for all I know. My point being that they are unidentified, they could be anything, and nothing should be ruled out, especially in cases where these apparently intelligently-controlled craft perform moves not compatible with our known physics. And eyewitness accounts are only good when you have other verifiable evidence, like radar returns, and good eyewitness accounts usually only come from those who constantly have their eyes on the sky, pilots, radar operators, etc. The entire UAP issue is, possibly, one of the greatest finds of human history. We, either, are not alone, or have a very interesting psychological physiology that causes us to see things that aren't there. To me, no matter which way it goes, is fascinating.


Correct , they are unidentified. But only to you and I average joe's. Not to the person or entity that designed-build-operate the freakin thing. Not to some aeronautical engineer accidentally seeing it in the sky. But to the average joe,he-she will immediately spread the word because he-she doesn't know what it is . Then he-she injects there creative imagination ,no thanks to hollywood and viola you have a new faith based religion called : Alien Nation

Which is why I have strong reservation with the UFO branding. Why is it UFO? Its only unidentified because of the Alien Perversion. If there wasn't,, , UFO's would become a "secret military craft". We put the "U" for ET's sake.


Wow ,,I just completely debunked the Alien mystique.




posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by dilly1
 





your aliens perversion would become mute.

A word can speak volumes .



2 planes weighing 116 tons each carrying 23k gallons of fuel CANNOT pulverize 1 200 000tons of mild steel and concrete 10kpsi(core and foundation)(floors were standard 4kpsi); all on one day. IT DOESNT HAPPEN

And that's more believable then the existence of ET life ....seems we all have our own perversions .


You're stretching it bud. I can't go into depth about my signature. But I will say this that statement is logic,no perversion. Learn construction and you'll get it.

You can't debate me. So you're desperate to rebuttal me with jargon.

Cheers



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by dilly1
 




post by dilly1
You can't debate me. So you're desperate to rebuttal me with jargon.

No.....I can't debate you because you believe everything you say is right because you've said it .
As for rebutting you with jargon
, I don't see where I used jargon in my reply .

You seem keen to repeat the mantra "hostile space" as a reason for ETs not visiting the Earth , and yes for us Space is hostile but we have only been in the game for a few decades , like it or not there will be other civilizations out there that have been traveling in space for hundreds or thousands of years , they would have a far different view on space travel to us and our primitive efforts .



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 03:44 PM
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How is(alien) it the most logical conclusion?

I would think some "secret-human-experimental plane" would be the most obvious logical conclusion.


Why? Because it's convenient?

Typically, the "secret black project" excuse is the last bastion of defense for debunkers, who have no other reasonable explanation for a sighting. Even if it makes no sense at all. You think it's "logical" that in Tehran 1976, there was an "experiment" that could outrace fighter jets, changed multiple colors, disable jet electronics (twice), disable their weapons, etc? We don't even have something that can do the things it did.. TODAY. And yet you think it being a secret craft is logical in some way?

You think that in Arizona, we flew a giant triangle craft across the state for hours? And then felt it necessary to drop flares over Phoenix in a triangle shape to confuse matters because we what.. miscalculate? Oops, we accidentally flew our super secret craft over populated areas for hours!

Sorry, I don't buy it. In some instances there can be mistaken identity. But many cases have craft that could do things we are not even remotely close to developing. Things seen 50 years ago can do things we still can't do. If we HAD that stuff back then, we'd be USING it now. If some government could so easily switch off a planes electronics, in super-fast craft, they'd use this technology. They don't spend billions or trillions on projects and then never use it. Stealth jet.. 45 billion and years to develop. Did we use it? Yea, you better believe it. And once we started using it, it was not that much a secret any more, was it.

If something in the sky is not owned by one of the few superpower governments that could actually afford to make such a thing, then it stands to reason that of the remaining possible ideas remaining, alien technology makes the most sense. I'll believe that before multidimensional, time traveling, etc.

I think it's kind of funny how much astounding "secret" technology is flown around our planet, but is never actually commercially produced or used afterwards.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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I believe UFO's are real, but it certainly does not mean aliens. Unidentified things that fly.
People certainly have to believe in UFO's by the definition. We all know that there are unidentified flying things.
The undefined term is a personal one.

So, take your pick:

Military projects / technology
Privately funded projects / technology
Time traveling Humans
Aliens
Time traveling Aliens
Dimensional 'Beings'
Spirits
Unknown life forms

One or more, has to be true. Maybe all of them.
So yea, UFO's exist, but what they are is undefined, by me anyway, but some people know a lot more.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by dilly1
 


It's just the media. No UFO's are infinitely connected with aliens. They travel in the dream world.

Aliens are referred to as 'mysterious lights.'


edit on 14-1-2012 by greyer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 07:29 PM
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Believing in an advanced alien aircraft is more comforting than believing you are insane or believing in stranger explanations. That's why I think the alien explanation is so popular.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by dilly1
 


Fine, but if I win you do not get your fighter status. Create a debate. I will take any side you are opposite to.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


Thankyou Zorgon, you always honor me when we agree. You are like a bright star in the UFO field.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by dilly1
Was wondering Why (and How) UFO's are infinitely connected with Aliens? I have never seen any evidence to confirm this strange marriage. Wouldn't it be best to con-join UFO paraphernalia with "man-made" igenuity????

The idea that something unexplained in the sky is not from this planet is based on what?


I think it's based on disinformation, a deliberate attempt to direct our attention away from the Earth as the origin of UFOs. Because there is absolutely no hard evidence that UFOs originate anywhere other than the Earth.

This isn't a new idea, of course. Here's a column featured in The Anomalist magazine from 12 years ago:

Homefield Advantage (An Earthly Origin for UFOs)


Here's the modern evidence: To date, UFOs are only seen in the vicinity of the Earth. They appear in the skies, sometimes they land on the surface, sometimes they slip beneath the waves--but they are all witnessed in the vicinity of the Earth. In the popular reportage, their "occupants" are hominid, they apparently have little trouble negotiating Earth's gravity, and they seem comfortable with our atmospheric gases at the same pressures we enjoy. This and other anecdotal evidence indicate to me that the "Others," if they actually exist, are probably Terrestrial in origin--not a product of our "advanced" technology, but perhaps of a civilization that coexists with us on Earth...

Perhaps a species of greater intelligence, greater technology, and much smaller population coexists with us on Earth, living who-knows-where, and only infrequently do they step on our "nests" of humanity, or examine us under their microscopes. Perhaps we cannot even recognize the presence of the "Others" unless it's a case of deliberate interference on their part, a rare and traumatic occurrence. Such is the narrow focus of humans.


The Anomalist writer hit the nail on the head, as far as I'm concerned.

The "truly unexplainable" UFOs have demonstrated the same incredible technological superiority for as long as we've been observing them, if they are indeed examples of comprehensible technology. These things instantaneously accelerate to hypersonic speeds, make impossible, gravity-defying maneuvers, exhibit not only radar invisibility but true invisibility, and have literally flown rings around our most advanced aircraft for more than 70 years.

Our human technology has improved considerably in that time frame, but we still can't touch the capabilities that UFOs have consistently showcased.

However, in all the decades (if not centuries) that we've observed UFOs, we have never actually seen one beyond the vicinity of the Earth-Moon system.

The only "evidence" that UFOs originate in other star systems comes from the least credible sources, from self-proclaimed "contactees" and "abductees"... Hey, I understand that some four million Americans believe that they have been contacted and/or abducted by UFOs, okay? I wonder how that number compares to the number of Americans who have been diagnosed as certifiably neurotic and psychotic?

My point is, ANYBODY can claim he has been contacted and/or abducted by UFOs, just as ANYBODY can claim he is the reincarnation of Napoleon, Elvis, or Jesus Christ.

In fact, if you surf the Web with regularity, you know that there are PLENTY of neurotic and psychotic folks out there. The fact that they make their preposterous claims publicly is NO REASON to take them seriously, okay?

So, discounting the very probably psychotic claims of "abductees" and "contactees," why do we just instantly assume that UFOs are from other planets?? There's no evidence whatsoever to support that assertion.





edit on 14-1-2012 by ZeskoWhirligan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by dilly1
 




post by dilly1
You can't debate me. So you're desperate to rebuttal me with jargon.

No.....I can't debate you because you believe everything you say is right because you've said it .
As for rebutting you with jargon
, I don't see where I used jargon in my reply .

You seem keen to repeat the mantra "hostile space" as a reason for ETs not visiting the Earth , and yes for us Space is hostile but we have only been in the game for a few decades , like it or not there will be other civilizations out there that have been traveling in space for hundreds or thousands of years , they would have a far different view on space travel to us and our primitive efforts .
Your last sentence is a perfect example of jargon. Jargon meaning no proof just hunch based on faith.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by dilly1
Was wondering Why (and How) UFO's are infinitely connected with Aliens? I have never seen any evidence to confirm this strange marriage. Wouldn't it be best to con-join UFO paraphernalia with "man-made" igenuity????

The idea that something unexplained in the sky is not from this planet is based on what?

I'm willing to bet people wouldn't care(give a hoot) as much if we all accepted(or assumed) that those UFO's are man-made. Which ,I know, is extremely boring and unimaginative, I get it... But what happens when our imaginations and curiosity suddenly trump our logical perception of our surroundings(including Space)?

So I hope we can have an objective discussion on the likely-hood ALL UFO's are designed-built and flown(including unmanned) by man(and woman off course).



What do you mean "Why and how aliens are INFINITELY connected to UFOs"?
This doesn't make sense.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by fleabit

How is(alien) it the most logical conclusion?

I would think some "secret-human-experimental plane" would be the most obvious logical conclusion.


Why? Because it's convenient?

Typically, the "secret black project" excuse is the last bastion of defense for debunkers, who have no other reasonable explanation for a sighting. Even if it makes no sense at all. You think it's "logical" that in Tehran 1976, there was an "experiment" that could outrace fighter jets, changed multiple colors, disable jet electronics (twice), disable their weapons, etc? We don't even have something that can do the things it did.. TODAY. And yet you think it being a secret craft is logical in some way?

You think that in Arizona, we flew a giant triangle craft across the state for hours? And then felt it necessary to drop flares over Phoenix in a triangle shape to confuse matters because we what.. miscalculate? Oops, we accidentally flew our super secret craft over populated areas for hours!

Sorry, I don't buy it. In some instances there can be mistaken identity. But many cases have craft that could do things we are not even remotely close to developing. Things seen 50 years ago can do things we still can't do. If we HAD that stuff back then, we'd be USING it now. If some government could so easily switch off a planes electronics, in super-fast craft, they'd use this technology. They don't spend billions or trillions on projects and then never use it. Stealth jet.. 45 billion and years to develop. Did we use it? Yea, you better believe it. And once we started using it, it was not that much a secret any more, was it.

If something in the sky is not owned by one of the few superpower governments that could actually afford to make such a thing, then it stands to reason that of the remaining possible ideas remaining, alien technology makes the most sense. I'll believe that before multidimensional, time traveling, etc.

I think it's kind of funny how much astounding "secret" technology is flown around our planet, but is never actually commercially produced or used afterwards.
Dude,,, the '76 tehran eyewitness account is ,,,an eyewitness account!. You either want to believe them(you) or one doesn't allow your emotions take over logical thinking. And if it did happen why would you choose the alien option? Because it seemed to move quicker than a military jet or electronic failures?

WTF?

How do you know what is the top of military technology(in any era)? You really think you're so special,,, jesus dude, you are so naïve.

The triangles were man made. You want the triangles to be alien-tour-buses chillin over Arizona. And you say I don't use logic? Lol

I think its the opposite,,You don't buy it ,cause it would mean you would have to drop everything you have ingested by society brainwashing you since you were a kid. My logic is too much for you to handle. lol

All you ufoers are all the same. Once your fantasy is backed against the wall you rebuttal with : "look how far we have come or the aliens are 1000's of years ahead of us".. That's desperate talk. You literally sound like your sinking in quicksand.

We know nothing about the true capabilities of our military. So stop thinking what you here and read is the pinnacle of our military. Naïve?

Alien technology would make sense for someone who is clueless about traveling ,not flying, in infinite space. That's you son.

How do you know what technology is or not produce for commercial purposes? God You assume so dam much.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by greyer
reply to post by dilly1
 


It's just the media. No UFO's are infinitely connected with aliens. They travel in the dream world.

Aliens are referred to as 'mysterious lights.'


edit on 14-1-2012 by greyer because: (no reason given)
Whatever,,jargon guy



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by bluestreak53

Originally posted by dilly1
Was wondering Why (and How) UFO's are infinitely connected with Aliens? I have never seen any evidence to confirm this strange marriage. Wouldn't it be best to con-join UFO paraphernalia with "man-made" igenuity????

The idea that something unexplained in the sky is not from this planet is based on what?

I'm willing to bet people wouldn't care(give a hoot) as much if we all accepted(or assumed) that those UFO's are man-made. Which ,I know, is extremely boring and unimaginative, I get it... But what happens when our imaginations and curiosity suddenly trump our logical perception of our surroundings(including Space)?

So I hope we can have an objective discussion on the likely-hood ALL UFO's are designed-built and flown(including unmanned) by man(and woman off course).



What do you mean "Why and how aliens are INFINITELY connected to UFOs"?
This doesn't make sense.

It does make sense. You unconditionally believe(with no proof) that all ufo's(or some,whatever floats your delusional perception) are so conveniently connected to aliens.

I can't dumb it down more than that. Try reading it really slow.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by dilly1
 




post by dilly1
Jargon meaning no proof just hunch based on faith.

Faith or logic ? , you've mentioned several times that you base your opinions on logic , is it not logical to believe that given the multitude of life forms on this fairly insignificant ball of rock that other life will have evolved on similar planets orbiting other stars .

The Milky Way alone contains hundreds of billions of stars , is it logical to believe that our Sun is the only star to host a planet capable of supporting life ?
Of course not , in fact its highly unlikely that we are the only life in our own Solar System , with Mars , Titan and Europa amongst the bodies Science believes are good candidates for finding other life .

Not jargon , science .

If we ever do find extraterrestrial life in the solar system, it’s probably much more likely to look like a few cells than a walking-and-talking green man. Nonetheless, finding any kind of life beyond Earth would be extraordinary. Here are our best hopes:
www.wired.com...



“We used to think that Earth might be unique in our galaxy,” said Daniel Kubas, a professor at Institute of Astrophysics in Paris, and co-leader of the study. “Now it seems that there are literally billions of planets with masses similar to Earth orbiting stars in the Milky Way.”


Remarkably, these data show that planets are more common than stars in our galaxy — they are the rule rather than the exception,” Cassan said. “We also found lighter planets … would be more common than heavier ones.”
news.nationalpost.com...


NASA: Probabilty of Alien Life in the Milky Way Increasing Exponentially.

In less than 20 years, astronomers have gone from not knowing if other planets exist in the universe, to our current Kepler catalog on almost 2000 planets. Our Milky Way galaxy may be home to at least two billion Earthlike planets, a recent study based on initial data from from Kepler space telescope shows -- a number that is actually far lower than many scientists anticipated.


"What we're seeing is this trend — the smaller the planet, the more of them there are," Sobeck told Space.com. "That's great news for the idea of finding Earth-like planets, or Earth-size planets. Once you have Earth-size planets, all it has to do is be in the right orbit, and it's habitable."
www.dailygalaxy.com... utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyGalaxyNewsFromPlanetEarthBeyond+%28The+Daily+Galaxy+--Great+Discoveries+Channel%3A+Sci%2C+Space%2C+Tech.% 29


Not based on faith but science
Open your eyes and you will see

edit on 15-1-2012 by gortex because: Edit to add



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by dilly1
Whatever,,jargon guy



I'm just saying - you do not believe what happened only because you didn't see it. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear does it make a sound?



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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Here is a detail of the Barney Hill sighting. The UFO days were very innocent at this time, and to Barney he absolutely refused to believe in aliens, he thought the strange craft was a jet and when he realized that it didn't make any sound, he kept begging to himself, 'please make sound!' He was getting anrgy because Betty was saying it was a UFO but he had to logically dismiss it. The 3rd time he stopped the car with the binoculars it was only a 100 feet away, he could clearly see what he thought were 'men' because he refused to let himself conceptualize ETs. Then, a close up on the 'man's' eye detailed "his eyes are slanted, but not like an asian. Strange!!'



edit on 15-1-2012 by greyer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by greyer
 




post by greyer
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear does it make a sound?

No .... but it does make sound waves , they are only converted into sound if received by a receiver to convert the waves into audible sound .



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by dilly1
 




post by dilly1
Jargon meaning no proof just hunch based on faith.

Faith or logic ? , you've mentioned several times that you base your opinions on logic , is it not logical to believe that given the multitude of life forms on this fairly insignificant ball of rock that other life will have evolved on similar planets orbiting other stars .

The Milky Way alone contains hundreds of billions of stars , is it logical to believe that our Sun is the only star to host a planet capable of supporting life ?
Of course not , in fact its highly unlikely that we are the only life in our own Solar System , with Mars , Titan and Europa amongst the bodies Science believes are good candidates for finding other life .

Not jargon , science .

If we ever do find extraterrestrial life in the solar system, it’s probably much more likely to look like a few cells than a walking-and-talking green man. Nonetheless, finding any kind of life beyond Earth would be extraordinary. Here are our best hopes:
www.wired.com...



“We used to think that Earth might be unique in our galaxy,” said Daniel Kubas, a professor at Institute of Astrophysics in Paris, and co-leader of the study. “Now it seems that there are literally billions of planets with masses similar to Earth orbiting stars in the Milky Way.”


Remarkably, these data show that planets are more common than stars in our galaxy — they are the rule rather than the exception,” Cassan said. “We also found lighter planets … would be more common than heavier ones.”
news.nationalpost.com...


NASA: Probabilty of Alien Life in the Milky Way Increasing Exponentially.

In less than 20 years, astronomers have gone from not knowing if other planets exist in the universe, to our current Kepler catalog on almost 2000 planets. Our Milky Way galaxy may be home to at least two billion Earthlike planets, a recent study based on initial data from from Kepler space telescope shows -- a number that is actually far lower than many scientists anticipated.


"What we're seeing is this trend — the smaller the planet, the more of them there are," Sobeck told Space.com. "That's great news for the idea of finding Earth-like planets, or Earth-size planets. Once you have Earth-size planets, all it has to do is be in the right orbit, and it's habitable."
www.dailygalaxy.com... utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheDailyGalaxyNewsFromPlanetEarthBeyond+%28The+Daily+Galaxy+--Great+Discoveries+Channel%3A+Sci%2C+Space%2C+Tech.% 29


Not based on faith but science
Open your eyes and you will see

edit on 15-1-2012 by gortex because: Edit to add
Your first paragraph is logical and correct... The problem is you are not understanding the laws of traveling in space. Other "beings" could easily have iphones and 4G network and still not be able to travel past there moon or moons.

Its not what one can do within there atmosphere,its what one can do outside there realm. Realm meaning space. That's why I don't care how many blue planets there are in the cosmos. I don't care how many years ahead these supposed beings are . What I care about , and so should every member on ATS, is understanding what a "hostile" place "space" can be.... Just stop and Think about space . It has no atmosphere(can't fly),no liquid(can't float), there's no up or down/east or west(navigating is a bitch), super cold, huge amounts of radiation and gravity from a every piece of matter in the cosmos is pulling you in every imaginable direction.... And that's what we know,,I am sure there are more unknown obstacles that I guarantee would make the trip even harder.

We are not even close to being prepared to master such a place. But We think WE will someday( hoping ) and we think aliens have already figured it out; All because of what we absorb(daily) on TV. Which explains, these poor humans seeing objects in our skies and then calling them UFO's.

Do you see how silly this whole UFO/alien connection is.

Your milky way paragraph is true. But that doesn't mean aliens have figured out how to travel in space. If they did trust me you wouldn't be posting on the internet.

Science is mostly jargon. Why? Because when people believe all the ideas and theories as facts ,then ,,,, only then ,,is it jargon. Science is great but don't look at it as the word of some lord. Your science has become a deity solely based on faith(backed by so many "IF's").


The possibility of alien life being on a cellular level is even greater. I truly believe life always finds a way. That doesn't mean the chances of intelligent beings figured out how to travel in hostile space increases ten fold. This is why logic,not imagination, is VITAL.

All these Experts and Professors are "spot on right". But they would never explain the true difficulties of the "in-between part" called space. Getting there is almost impossible. And to overcome and accomplish the "almost" is a complete restructure of Nasa and Medicine ,,top to bottom.

This is why all these Experts and Professors never talk with a logical tone(that's not what the networks or magazines want),,,but in a tone backed by possibilities , they(experts) create a plausible realm and the networks produce it in a practical world. When nothing is practical in space.


Unfortunately science has become " a faith". The "powers it be" have made into a religion. Its actually very sad ,,because the masses are embracing it.



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