Groom Lake, been there...

reply to post by gariac


I might be able to come up with that. I was a NATOPS and acoustics instructor at the ASW Tactical school at Willow Grove, and we used both stationkeeping P3b's and and squadron P3b's (I think VP64 or VP66) birds for our flight hours. The P3b's were being phased out for the newer 'charlie updates', the P3C. I will see if anyone left out there can come up with what bird we were using. The tail code would have been LU or LV, if I recall.

It wouldn't have been Tonopah Test Range.The airbase had not yet been constructed.

During the 1960s, a crude 5,000-foot airstrip was built at TTR, mainly for delivery of supplies. Sandia Strip, as it was known, was equipped with runway lights in 1969. Sandia employees began commuting daily to the range in Fokker F-27 aircraft. In 1970, the airstrip was extended to 6,600 feet, with a 1,500-foot overrun. In 1971, a visual omnirange localizer and nondirectional radio beacon were installed for instrument approach requirements. The runway was completely repaved in 1976 with a strengthened all-weather surface.

In May 1978, the Deputy Secretary of Defense approved $7 million to fund Phase I construction of a new airfield in support of the 4477th Test and Evaluation Flight Red Eagles. Initial construction included a maintenance hangar, a concrete apron, access taxiway, propane tank, a few permanent outbuildings, and 16 mobile homes. The original 6,600-foot runway was extended to 10,000 feet with a 1,000-foot overrun on each end. Designated as Runway 14-32, it is 150 feet wide and is equipped with two BAK-12 arresting barriers and TACAN/ILS systems for navigation and instrument landings

Phase II construction began in September 1980. At a cost of $18 million, it included expansion of the parking apron, construction of a taxiway, fuel tanks, dining hall, water storage tank, warehouse, support utilities, and a 42,000-square-foot hangar (Bldg. 188). Phase II, completed in January 1982, began the transition of TTR (designated in some DOE documents as Area 52) from a bare base to a standard Air Force base.

I still think that Desert Rock sounds more likely, especially since the name is so similar to "Little Rock."

reply to post by charlyv


You can go down Joe Baughers website.
www.joebaugher.com...

Also the Dutch numbers gurus:
www.scramble.nl...

reply to post by Shadowhawk


Desert Rock and Little Rock...brilliant deduction. Wish I thought of it. (clearly I need some coffee)

Nav beacons at the TTR are just plain weird. The current VOR puts out TQQ. No idea behind that. The now defunct NDB used XSD. It was located right at the border of the base, nowhere near the runway.

So how did the airport become TNX? Or why doesn't the VOR spew TNX. Make things more confusing by calling the tower Silverbow. Now perhaps because of neary TPH, they couldn't call it Tonopah "anything." Silverbow is the defunct mining camp nearby.

reply to post by Shadowhawk


Thank you for the information Shadowhawk, I guess that settles that.

I also found an earlier post of yours addressing my previous question, keep up the good work.


post by Shadowhawk

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
There are several documented stories of unauthorized civilian and military aircraft landing at Groom Lake.

28 July 1957 - Civilian pilot Edward K. Current Jr. got lost during a cross-country flight and landed on Watertown Airstrip at Groom Lake. Current, a Douglas Aircraft Company employee, was held overnight and questioned. He was released the next morning and sent on his way. The incident was reported to the Civil Aeronautics Administration and a statement was made to the news media.

8 October 1963 - An F-105, one of a flight of three, experienced an oil pressure malfunction over the Nellis Range during a training sortie. One F-105 returned to base while the flight leader (a British exchange pilot) led the stricken aircraft to the nearest airfield which happened to be Area 51 at Groom Lake. He advised the student pilot to land despite the lack of radio communications from the Area 51 control tower. Two F-101s intercepted the F-105s prior to landing and advised the flight leader to land as well. The base commander, Col. Robert Holbury, and security personnel escorted the F-105 crewmen to a interrogation sessions in separate rooms. They damaged F-105 was repaired and both aircraft departed to Nellis.

A civilian plane landed at Area 51 during the mid-1960s, according to one of the OXCART project pilots. It was refueled and sent on its way.

A similar incident reportedly occurred during the HAVE BLUE program in the late 1970s.

I believe I recall reading about this on the Roadrunners website, I'll peruse around for a bit and see If I can find the link for anyone else who may be interested.

On a related note, this is a refreshingly mature conversation for this topic on this website.

Keep it classy ATS.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


It would be interesting to know which direction this civilian planes approached.

From the east side, I'm not sure the base could even scramble in time to intercept a slow moving Buddy Holly plane. Unfortunately google drags up all sorts of 9/11 theories when I try to find the scramble time of a jet.

Figure on Groom Lake being twenty miles away. Figure on the little C182 doing say 140mph (statute). So in 1/7th of an hour, a little over 8 minutes, the intruder would be over the base.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


It is still a good story, even if it is Desert Rock Airstrip. It would be nice to pin in down and hand it off to the base historian.

The guy I know who flew on the P-3 told me they had an interesting alert once. Turns out through a fluke of sorts, the California Highway Patrol caught a Russian spy trying to sniff the radio comms between Skaggs or Mare (I forget) and Mount Diablo. It was your classic van with some exposed radio gear right in the line of sight. The CHP investigates and find a Russian national inside. The P-3 was already in the air, but they got raised to a higher alert level or something to that effect.

I've worked on those Sonobouy systems back in the day (chips actually), dealing with Magnavox and a few other vendors. It was and probably still is the cheapest bit of gear sold to the DoD. The only reason anyone would even supply a sonobouy was the fact they were disposable. You could make decent money in volume.

reply to post by Shadowhawk


I never heard the name "Desert Rock", I am sure that is was "Little Rock".
Would these be code names, or were they considered place names in those days, I wonder.

reply to post by Submarines


Yea, but when you guys used to pull the plug sometimes, the last thing we heard were a few bubbles!
Made for some short exercises.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by charlyv

 

You can go down Joe Baughers website.
www.joebaugher.com...

Also the Dutch numbers gurus:
www.scramble.nl...

Wow, lots of info here... Who is able to keep track of this stuff?, mind bogling. I am checking out VPNAVY, there is alot on there as well. You guys know alot about this place, one would think you work there!

reply to post by charlyv


The Dutch aviation enthusiasts are insane if not compulsive about tail-numbers. They have been known to get on military bases and just log numbers, not take photos. If you have ever tried to find a particular aircraft via tail number, a camera is not your friend. To get a tail number, you want good binonculars. So the Dutch are at the fence with log book handy and binocs in hand.

Add this list to your references:
www.designation-systems.net...

They have a yahoo group too. I just troll it since they know designations an order of magnitude better than I do. What is handy is the group often find the tail numbers of the latest designations as they research the numbers.

Not quite as handy unless you are a "contributor" is
www.live-mode-s.info...

It has a database as well, but you get more information if you feed the system with a mode-s receiver.

Awesome story!

I'm not surprised by the armed gaurds at those hangars because of whatever was in them, and when I was at Kirtland AFB in NM for a couple years, I saw a lot of off limit places with armed guards, plus they had a few incidents with our pals from Russia being there when they shouldn't have been -wink wink... Saw a few lockdowns and some other crazy things happen there... Some were even ufo related incidents...

Cheers

ps The Russians were trying to photograph MFD's onboard the EA6B's at that time, amongst other things.. was back in the mid '80's

Originally posted by Soapusmaximus
Seems like you have had quite a life my friend,

That's such an interesting story,

The more comfortable amenities, available to you and your comrades, and the marines guarding the hangers,

Could have all been signs of the secret SR-71 missions, being operated from that base.

I can't imagine a line of hangers, with marines guarding UFO's, I would imagine they are better hidden.

The google earth clips of area 51, are very interesting

watching that video was interesting as it bought me back to bob lazar

bob lazar supposedly worked at area 51 and shares my grandmothers maiden name

interested in it, i checked out bob lazar again and i see according to wiki he was born in coral gables florida


en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

seems to me, bob lazar lives right near where eddie leedskalnin created the coral castle

now while the two events of area 51 and coral castle seem unrelated, the fact this man is seemingly linked near both is interesting to say the least and makes me ponder any real connections other then proximity


perhaps bob lazar knew of the coral castle tech and that helped get him involved in area 51 or vice verse or who knows

Just wanted to say, "Thanks for putting up such a great story." While it could be a total fabrication (and I don't think that it is... but this is the internet after all!), it is still a great read. Thanks to all of the contributing members through the thread that have kept the discussion above board and thanks OP for replying to everyone so quickly and with such great input. These discussions are why I joined ATS in the first place and why I keep coming back.

An aside, my old man flew in P3s from the mid 70s up until the mid 80s (how I ended up being born in Iceland). Between his work there and my mum's cosmic status, doubt I will ever get a squeak out of them other than, "Yeah, we had a good time!"

reply to post by charlyv


This is great!

I wonder if the Black Vault has any information on "Little Rock"... if not, that might be a term to start making FOIA requests on!

Absolutely everything you ever wanted to know about Area - 51 is right here on a post that I made. enjoy

www.rcuniverse.com...

Seems like the military is at least making it worthwhile working in isolation like that by providing top-shelf amenities.

Thank you for this awesome story. It was the best read I have had on here in a while. Sure wish I was born and lived in a time like this. I enjoyed this a lot. Thank you.

Originally posted by TreehouseIndustries
I have little to add but my thanks for sharing this story, just out of curiosity, had they replaced the engine or just replaced components? how badly damaged was it? (in your opinion)

it seems plausible that they would have parts for a T56 Allison (it being common to the P3 and C130) but to get the work done overnight certainly shows a keen desire to get you out of there as quickly as possible, was there ever any conclusion as to the cause of the fire?

edit on 13/1/2012 by TreehouseIndustries because: incompetence

I would also think that at a base like that parts from crafts from all over the world from many different manufactuers would be on hand, sort of like a Auto Zone for planes. Having that type of resoucres on base would reduce the amount of traffic going in and out, which would be key when concealing a huge secret base.
....Either that or there really are secret tunenels beneith the ground that connects to cali and new mexico, los alamos etc, and they got what they needed via that route;

Wow very interesting read mate you have had a very interesting experience and life =)