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an idea inspired by admiring my cat

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posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 08:10 PM
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A couple of weeks ago I was admiring my cat (as I always do
). I was thinking he deserves to be more than a cat. Then I suddenly realized that he must be a cat; if he changed in any way he would not be who he is.

So the same idea applies to people. I might wish I was different in many ways, but then I wouldn't be me.

I have always thought that people do not have free will or souls or any non-physical existence, but it always seemed like a sad outlook. I realized that it doesn't need to be sad. We can imagine that God created everything, past, present, and future to please him. Like this verse from Isaiah 64:8: "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand,"

In other words were are just clay and nothing more - like an atheist would believe. But if we imagine the guiding hand of a Creator shaping everything in the universe, then it becomes an uplifting philosophy (I think).

I'm curious what this philosophy is called. I'm sure it isn't new.




posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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Then the question is, what's the point if we have no control? Is god just playing the Sims?



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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I once read a quote...
""religion ends and philosophy begins, just as alchemy ends and chemistry begins and astrology ends and astronomy begins""

Is there a philosophical term for the belief that we were sculpted and are led by a person symbolizing the core of [a] religion?

Meaningless clay or sculptures being guided, I wonder what makes us all different, i.e. Why did Joe have no problem stabbing his wife to death but I find the whole notion vile?
If we're all meaningless clay, we still all should share similar outlook. If we're being guided, why are some evil and others lack the latter?

I think i went way off the rails there.
I have a cat who I wish were human, I totally get it.
edit on 12-1-2012 by jonibelle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Pelvi
Then the question is, what's the point if we have no control? Is god just playing the Sims?


You have control, because "you" ARE god. If you have no control its because your "life" has taken control over YOU.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by jonibelleWhy did Joe have no problem stabbing his wife to death but I find the whole notion vile?


Because you haven't spent the last 20 years with Joe's wife! HAHA, but seriously, you find it vile because you're on the outside looking in. You don't know what it's like to be joe, because you're not joe. And Joe may think it vile also, but acted purely out of animalistic rage. Sometimes the mind can take over, and make the body do what the soul knows is a vile act.



Originally posted by jonibelleIf we're all meaningless clay, we still all should share similar outlook. If we're being guided, why are some evil and others lack the latter?


Evil is subjective, and man is a very unbalanced creature by nature. Perhaps not intentionally by design, but at the very least we are all psychologically damaged to some degree by circumstance and cosmic events.


Originally posted by jonibelleI think i went way off the rails there.


Hastily plug thyself back into the matrix good sir.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Pelvi
Then the question is, what's the point if we have no control? Is god just playing the Sims?


That is a good point, because there have been experiments showing that the belief in free will is necessary so that people behave better and so that society can justifiably punish the evildoers (as defined by society).

I think the experience of a metaphysical self and free will and causality is hard-wired into people, so it is a waste of time to fight these beliefs. But intellectually we can get some peace sometimes by realizing that they are illusions. Everything is going according to God's master plan. We're just clay, so we shouldn't be critiquing God's artwork.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by avatar01

Originally posted by Pelvi
Then the question is, what's the point if we have no control? Is god just playing the Sims?


You have control, because "you" ARE god. If you have no control its because your "life" has taken control over YOU.


I feel more peaceful thinking of myself simply as a clay pot created by God. If I believe that I am strictly physical but I also believe that God created everything with a purpose then it makes me feel more positive about life as it is.

I don't think the universe is necessarily deterministic. It seems like quantum mechanics gives God the freedom to exercise his free will without breaking physical laws. God might nudge my brain to make a certain decision. But I don't like the idea of being God. Spirituality makes me uncomfortable.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by cloudyday
A couple of weeks ago I was admiring my cat (as I always do
). I was thinking he deserves to be more than a cat. Then I suddenly realized that he must be a cat; if he changed in any way he would not be who he is.

So the same idea applies to people. I might wish I was different in many ways, but then I wouldn't be me.

I have always thought that people do not have free will or souls or any non-physical existence, but it always seemed like a sad outlook. I realized that it doesn't need to be sad. We can imagine that God created everything, past, present, and future to please him. Like this verse from Isaiah 64:8: "But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand,"

In other words were are just clay and nothing more - like an atheist would believe. But if we imagine the guiding hand of a Creator shaping everything in the universe, then it becomes an uplifting philosophy (I think).

I'm curious what this philosophy is called. I'm sure it isn't new.


I know that we are not just flesh and bone (clay) and I am an atheist.

I'm curious as to what this philosophy is called as well OP, I know what I would call it.

IMO you are being way too materialistic, by your reckoning if "your" cat was to change it's form in anyway cat would not be who cat is.

You are still living in the temporal world OP as opposed to the spiritual world and for someone who obviously believes in God you have just reaffirmed my own religious beliefs.


Namaste
edit on 12-1-2012 by JudgeDeath because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by JudgeDeath
 


Hmmmm. Well I guess I haven't sold the idea to you. It seems obvious to me that Popeye was right "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam." When I die, my brain decays and the chain of memories that create a personal perspective vanish. But if you assume that God created everything then our materialistic existence becomes very meaningful - even more meaningful because it has a beginning and an end.
edit on 13-1-2012 by cloudyday because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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I agree with you. I think what God might be hoping to accomplish is harmony. Imagine if we all knew we didn't have free will, but our supposed free will was actually God's will. Imagine if we weren't individual humans, we were actually God "playing the sims". Imagine a universe without life. A universe without life has no quality at all. Life creates meaning and assigns it to the universe. It is all one life. So imagine if we surrendered our idea of free will and somehow found a way to live from God's perspective. We would create our future. We would be able to participate in a divine dance.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
I agree with you. I think what God might be hoping to accomplish is harmony. Imagine if we all knew we didn't have free will, but our supposed free will was actually God's will. Imagine if we weren't individual humans, we were actually God "playing the sims". Imagine a universe without life. A universe without life has no quality at all. Life creates meaning and assigns it to the universe. It is all one life. So imagine if we surrendered our idea of free will and somehow found a way to live from God's perspective. We would create our future. We would be able to participate in a divine dance.


I think living from God's perspective means recognizing that everything has purpose and everything is perfect. I like the idea of being a clay pot in that perfect universe for a brief period of time.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by cloudyday

Originally posted by smithjustinb
I agree with you. I think what God might be hoping to accomplish is harmony. Imagine if we all knew we didn't have free will, but our supposed free will was actually God's will. Imagine if we weren't individual humans, we were actually God "playing the sims". Imagine a universe without life. A universe without life has no quality at all. Life creates meaning and assigns it to the universe. It is all one life. So imagine if we surrendered our idea of free will and somehow found a way to live from God's perspective. We would create our future. We would be able to participate in a divine dance.


I think living from God's perspective means recognizing that everything has purpose and everything is perfect. I like the idea of being a clay pot in that perfect universe for a brief period of time.


I think living from God's perspective means just living.



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