Let's clear up the ignorance about homosexuality - I hope to never hear these arguments again

reply to post by arpgme


For the record, because someone may disagree with your opinion doesn't make them ignorant. Anyway, throughout nature, the only purpose for sex is for reproduction and propagation of the species. To that end, homosexuality is indeed unnatural, at least biologically speaking. It just so happens that we humans enjoy sex, and use it for purposes other than reproduction. The vast majority of other animals do not enjoy sex, and do not have sex for recreational purposes... in fact sex for many animals is downright painful and agonizing, especially for the female. Now here is where opinion comes into play. You can either believe that homosexuals are born that way, or you can believe that they choose to be that way. If you side with the first opinion, then it is natural to THEM and them only because they are born that way. If you believe that they choose to be that way then it is not natural in any way.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Homosexuality is a sin according to the bible. It needs to be repented of and stopped if one wishes to be a Christian.

So is cutting your hair, eating shellfish or pork, and wearing clothing with more than 2 kinds of fabrics. I think that pretty much prohibits everyone from being a Christian.

Originally posted by BeforeTooLong
reply to post by arpgme

 

#1 most ignorant and dumbfounding argument:

But my fictional book tells me it’s bad and that homosexuals will burn in hell.

Riiiiiiiiggggght

And it's an ignorant argument because it is a misinterpretation of the Bible, not because the Bible is at fault. It's something that mainstream religion has taught is in the Bible, but actually it isn't. In fact the word "homosexual" does not even appear in the King James version. It was added in later versions, but many scholars regard it as a misinterpretation.

And besides, the message of the Bible isn't that one particular group is condemned through sin, it's that ALL people are condemned. Everyone. Even if being gay isn't a sin, stealing a pen from work is. And lying. And thinking about hurting someone (that's right, thinking about it is as much a sin as doing it). We ALL sin, and one person's sin isn't better or worse than another's, they are all equally bad. And salvation is available to ALL, that is the message.

Christians like to gripe about homosexuals because it gives them the false belief that they are somehow better, that their own sins are "not that bad" compared to the really despicable (in their eyes) stuff. And that self-righteousness is exactly what Christ preached against when he talked about removing the log from your own eye before removing a splinter from your neighbor's. The people who gripe about the perceived magnitude of the sins of others are themselves the biggest sinners of all.

Back to the OP, personally I think you can look at the human male and female bodies and logically deduce that they are designed for intercourse to work a certain way, and homosexual intercourse is in stark contrast to the way bodies are designed. I don't agree that homosexual intercourse is natural, not in humans nor in animals. That's not to say it's "wrong", people (whether hetero or homo) do all kinds of unnatural things but if they're not hurting others or themselves then I wouldn't say the act is "wrong" per se.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

So is cutting your hair, eating shellfish or pork, and wearing clothing with more than 2 kinds of fabrics. I think that pretty much prohibits everyone from being a Christian.

No, those are mosaic laws laid out for the Jews. Christians were never subject to the mosaic laws. This is a common misconception among atheists ignorant of the true content of the Bible.

If you're a believer in the Bible and take it at face value, you're going to be against homosexuality, otherwise, there is no logical, rational reason to be.

It's all about religion. Simple as that. It's silly when Christians try to prove that homosexuality is bad using reason, when their beliefs weren't a product of reason in the first place. Put your Bible down, imagine it never existed, and admit you then have no argument against homosexuality that isn't completely retarded.

Why not just come out and say it? You think it's bad because a book that you buy into told you that God said it was bad. Once we've got that out the way, it's a simple matter of church and state being separate, and the Bible should have no influence on modern law, therefore, gay marriage etc should be legal.

By the way, it's a pretty ridiculous God who would create a male or female who is attracted to the same sex, and then go to lengths to describe how and why it's such a horrible thing.

God has no rational reason to dislike homosexuality either, he just doesn't like it...and yet he, apparently, invented it

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by kaylaluv

So is cutting your hair, eating shellfish or pork, and wearing clothing with more than 2 kinds of fabrics. I think that pretty much prohibits everyone from being a Christian.

No, those are mosaic laws laid out for the Jews. Christians were never subject to the mosaic laws. This is a common misconception among atheists ignorant of the true content of the Bible.

I will defer to your obviously more comprehensive knowledge of the Bible. I am not an atheist, by the way - I consider myself a hopeful agnostic.

My personal opinion (and, of course that's all it is) is that the Bible was conceived and written by men of a certain time and a certain culture, and the rules/laws in the Bible are simply a result of that time and culture - some apply to today's culture - some do not. I very much like the quotes attributed to Jesus, however. They do appear to be, for the most part, timeless.

reply to post by kaylaluv

I would like to dispute where you get your facts, because I have gotten some different information.

THE WHOLE TOPIC HAS BEEN SOOOOOO POLITICIZED FOR SOOOOOOOO LONG
THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET ACCURATE DATA--
EVEN FROM SO CALLED PROFESSIONAL RESEARCHERS
--SOME OF WHOM HAVE BEEN CAUGHT COOKING THE BOOKS--
SELECTING DATA OUT THAT ONLY SUPPORTS THEIR BIASES AND AGENDA.

HOWEVER . . . .

www.forerunner.com...

Exposing the Myths

By Editorial Staff
Published February 1992

By Brendan Murray

. . .

Approximately 25% of the 5300 individuals Kinsey used were prison inmates, who by the nature of their confinement, couldn’t have heterosexual intercourse. This is never admitted directly, of course, but it is known that 37% of the sample were non-college educated, and that 75% of this group were prisoners. This translates into 1471 inmates out of a total group of 5300, a sample which is supposed to be representative of the American population. Further skewing the results is the fact that 44% of these inmates many of whom were jailed for sex offenses, had “homosexual experiences” while in prison.

In case you were thinking that this is about as bizarre a representative sample as one could conceivably imagine, it gets worse. Kinsey also admitted using “several hundred male prostitutes” in his sample. If all were included, this alone could throw off his ten percent figure by half, or more.

. . .

So if these incongruities discredit Kinsey’s 10% figure, what’s the real truth? It would appear that one to two percent is the actual proportion of homosexual men in a given population, as demonstrated by two recent studies. First, David Forman, senior staff member at the Radcliffe Infirmary, Oxford, authored a study in England and Wales between 1984 and 1987 which determined that only 1.7% of his sample had engaged in homosexual intercourse (British Medical Journal 298: 1137-1142, 1989). Second, sexual behavior researcher, Tom Smith of the University of Chicago authored a study two years ago entitled “Adult Sexual Behavior in 1989: Number of Partners Frequency and Risk.” His study resulted in a figure of “less than 1% exclusively homosexual.”

. . .

-----

WIKI:

en.wikipedia.org...

1988
A study of 5,514 college and university students under the age of 25 found 1% who were homosexual and 1% who were bisexual.[7]
1998
A stratified random sample of 750 males aged 18 to 27 in Calgary, Canada included questions on sexual activity and orientation. 15.3% of men "reported being homosexual to some degree" on the basis of three (often overlapping) measures of homosexuality: (1) voluntary, same-gender sexual contact from age 12 to 27: 14.0%; (2) overlapping homosexual (5.9%) and/or bisexual (6.1%) self-identification: 11.1%; and (3) exclusive (4.3%) and non-exclusive (4.9%) same-gender sexual relationships in past 6 months: 9.2%.[8]
2003
A survey of 135,000 Canadians found that 1.0% of the respondents identified themselves as homosexual and 0.7% identified themselves as bisexual. About 1.3% of men considered themselves homosexual, almost twice the proportion of 0.7% among women. However, 0.9% of women reported being bisexual, slightly higher than the proportion of 0.6% among men. 2.0% of those in the 18–35 age bracket considered themselves to be either homosexual or bisexual, but the number decreased to 1.9% among 35–44 year olds, and further still to 1.2% in the population aged 45–59. Quebec and British Columbia had higher percentages than the national average at 2.3% and 1.9%, respectively.[9]

. . .

2005
HM Treasury and the Department of Trade and Industry completed a survey to help the Government analyse the financial implications of the Civil Partnerships Act (such as pensions, inheritance and tax benefits). They concluded that there were 3.6 m gay people in Britain—around 6% of the total population or 1 in 16.66 people.[15]

2010
A representative survey of 238,206 Britons, exclusive to their categories, found 1% were gay or lesbian and 0.5% were bisexual. A further 0.5% self-identified as "other", and 3% responded as "do not know" or refused to answer.[16]

. . .

----

.

The Creator of everything, whom has absolute authority over His creation, forbids it. Dispute it all you like, pass laws making it acceptable, you are wasting your time. Your God given conscience will still scream at you that the behavior is wrong. Listen to your conscience, unless you enjoy guilt and remorse

People who are homophobic or anti gay are usually one of 2 things;

1 - Closet homosexuals or have homosexual tendencies
2 - Very sad little people

Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

I would like to dispute where you get your facts, because I have gotten some different information.

THE WHOLE TOPIC HAS BEEN SOOOOOO POLITICIZED FOR SOOOOOOOO LONG
THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET ACCURATE DATA--
EVEN FROM SO CALLED PROFESSIONAL RESEARCHERS
--SOME OF WHOM HAVE BEEN CAUGHT COOKING THE BOOKS--
SELECTING DATA OUT THAT ONLY SUPPORTS THEIR BIASES AND AGENDA.

Excuse me, but the post you responded to had nothing to do with the 10% Kinsey number. That was another poster. I would like a response to MY post, which had to do with your research on children raised by homosexual parents, avg lifespan of gay men, etc.

I will say that the lower percentage of homosexuals in our society actually hurts your claim that our culture is in imminent danger of crumbling (although I'd still be curious to see your data proving cultures crumble solely due to homosexuality in and of itself).

Originally posted by kingofmd
The Creator of everything, whom has absolute authority over His creation, forbids it.

Correction:

A book, one of many, which claims to be God's word, forbids it. It also tells us we should stone children to death when they insult their parents though, so many suggest it should all be taken with a rather large grain of salt, yeah?

reply to post by kaylaluv


more data

www.yawningbread.org...

A total of 750 men aged between 18 and 27 were studied. They were asked questions about their sexual activity, as well as whether they identified themselves as homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual.

From the questions about sexual activity, 105 men (14%) said that they have had homosex since age 12. Of these, 65 said their first homosexual experience took place before they were 18 years old.


Homosex since age 12 Number Percent
First experience before age 18 65 8.7%
First experience 18 years & older 40 5.3%
No homosexual experience 645 86.0%
Total interviewed 750 100.0%

Another question focused on current sexual behaviour. 69 of the 750 persons interviewed (9.2%) reported having had homosex in the last six months. Of these 69 persons, 32 of them (4.3%) had exclusively homosexual relationships, while the other 37 (4.9%) had it both ways.


Sexual activity in last 6 months Number Percent
Homosex only 32 4.3%
Both ways 37 4.9%
Total interviewed 750 100.0%

A separate question asked if they identified themselves as homosexual or bisexual:


Self-identification as: Number Percent
Homosexual 44 5.9%
Bisexual 46 6.1%
Total interviewed 750 100.0%

However, there were discrepancies between self-identification and actual sexual behaviour. For example, one man who described himself as heterosexual was having an exclusively homosexual relationship during the preceding six months. Likewise, there were others who were bisexually active, but were still describing themselves as heterosexual.

The researchers made the necessary adjustments to the data, coming to the conclusion that 12.7% (95 out of 750) were bisexual or homosexual.

The interviews were conducted in 1991 and 1992 as part of a broader mental health study. The questions about sexual behaviour and orientation were included because the intention was to see if depression and attempts at suicide were related to these factors.(They were, but that would be digressing from the point of this essay). It was only recently that a fresh look was taken at the data about sexual identification and behaviour by themselves. Hence the delay in publishing the results.
. . .

----


Consuming diet and thyroid pills during pregnancy may increase incidence of homosexual offspring

www.rightdiagnosis.com...

New research involving over 5 thousand women claims that women who consume amphetamine-based diet pills and thyroid deficiency medication during pregnancy are more likely to produce homosexual offspring. Experts warn women to avoid all possible medication during pregnancy. This reinforces beliefs that genetic and biological factors during early pregnancy influence sexuality.

- - -

www.neoteny.org...

. . .

“Yalom et al. (1973) studied 20 16-year-old boys of diabetic mothers, who had received estrogen or progesterone during pregnancy. These boys showed less heterosexuality and less masculinity than 20 control boys. Netley and Rovet (1982) showed that among 33 males with 47,XXY syndrome, 24% were nonrighthanded, compared to 10% of a control group. … In the present study, as well as in Lindesay (1987), only homosexual men were studied. In Rosenstein and Bigler (1987) and McCormick et al. (1990), both men and women were studied, and in the latter study, a significant increase in lefthandedness (or rather nonrighthandedness) was obtained for women. This was assumed to be related to higher-than-normal levels of prenatal testosterone levels. In their results, the increase in lefthandedness in homosexual women (which have lower occurrence than men in the general population) is much larger than that of homosexual men. It is, therefore, fair to assume that the increase in testosterone, believed to cause both lefthandedness and homosexuality in women, will give a more pronounced effect in women than in men (p. 184).” (Coates, T. J., Ekstrand, M., and Gotestam, K. O., “Handedness, Dyslexia and Twinning in Homosexual Men,” International Journal of Neuroscience 63(3-4) (1992):179-86.)

“Although numerous researchers have hypothesized a biological factor in the etiology of homosexuality, there is a lack of empirical evidence. Previous investigations did not focus on behavioral functions of the brain. Using neuropsychological testing, we found an increased incidence of left-hand preference (defined as non-consistent right-hand preference) in a group of 32 homosexual women. A trend in the same direction was found in a group of 38 homosexual men. . . .

[out of characters] 2 B CONTINUED

reply to post by BO XIAN

Ah, but there is the rub. If Jesus was to die to take on all of the worlds sins on the cross, then how could the gates of heaven be closed to Homosexuals, to whom many devout christians view as vile and sinful?
Are they so willing to accept that a mass murderer is willing to accept Jesus, while waiting for the sentence of death would hold more of the way into heaven, than one gay man who has done nothing wrong, save love another man?

Originally posted by arpgme


* What's next, allowing animals to get married!? Where do we draw the line!?

How about we draw the line at two consenting adults agreeing to be married, that sounds fair. It will allow blacks and interracial couples to get married too.

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I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS POINT, ABOUT TWO CONSENTING ADULT.... EXACTLY....
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There's only one unforgivable sin, and that's blasphemy against the holy spirit. So if you're religious, feel free to be as gay as you like, just make sure you say sorry once you've finished.

reply to post by k1k1to


So, in your opinion. It is natural for a serial killer to start killing small animals for fun at the age of 7 or 8? After all, the killer must have been born that way? YOU ARE AN IDIOT! Common sense tells you when something is natural or not. Homosexual activity is un-natural and wrong. How about bringing up the many former gays that have said the same.

Originally posted by AnswerSeeker2012
reply to post by k1k1to

 

So, in your opinion. It is natural for a serial killer to start killing small animals for fun at the age of 7 or 8? After all, the killer must have been born that way? YOU ARE AN IDIOT! Common sense tells you when something is natural or not. Homosexual activity is un-natural and wrong. How about bringing up the many former gays that have said the same.

How about bringing up the much larger number of existing gays who say that homosexual activity is as natural to them as heterosexual activity is to straights?

Why try to compare a serial killer to gays? Killers want to take a life -- gays just want to be able to love who they choose. Consenting adults, and all that. Since when do killers involve consenting adults.

reply to post by kaylaluv


CONTINUED DATA . . .

www.neoteny.org...

“Human homosexual males report more stressors (such as bereavement) during their mother’s pregnancy than controls (Dorner, Schenk, Schmiedel, and Ahrens 1983).” (S. Baron-Cohen, S. Lutchmaya, and R. Kinickmeyer, Prenatal Testosterone in Mind: Amniotic Fluid Studies (Massachusetts: MIT Press, 2004), pp. 11-12.)

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Sleepy. So will get the rest of my sleep in and try and return to posting a lot of data from the research as soon as I can get back to it.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


My Bible indicates that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against Holy Spirit.

Heart-felt repentance--turning from sin--is important, for forgiveness and entry to Heaven, however.

Many sins are difficult to totally and fully, finally forsake.

Christ's Holy Spirit helps those persistently cooperating to resist the enemy until he flees.