NASA Officially confirms: Cold Fusion(LENR) is REAL

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posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by hey1212
Maybe they've decided to try and bankrupt the rich middle east countries or at least stem their income by releasing a new energy source other than oil.


there's something about this statement.
wouldn't THAT be the hidden bullet!
oh no, I can put $.75 gas in my chevelle!




posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by consciousgod




Why would society change so much? It's like your utility switching from coal to gas. You like that there's less smog. Other than that life is pretty darn similar. Cars and aircraft totally changed people's habits and expectations for travel and business.


Society would change because the instant the fact that these machines exist and are ready to deploy hits wall street and the main stream, oil futures crash. This will cause a chain reaction that totally destroys all world economies and plunges the entire would into chaos.


This makes no sense. You realize that, all else being equal, lowering petroleum costs increases economic growth in oil consuming nations.

And, besides, these machines only purport to make hot water. (And we don't yet know that it produces excess work, either. Excess heat can come from a heat pump).

How are you going to run a Boeing on them?

If there's any temporary crash in oil futures as a result if this kind of news, I'm buying heavy. It will snap back very quickly, because people will realize that for next month's oil delivery people still need to fill up up their tanks at Exxon.

Changes in energy technology take many, many decades.


And a new world will emerge after suffering greatly but temporarily, but many will die of starvation.
edit on 14-1-2012 by consciousgod because: (no reason given)


Why?



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 05:44 AM
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Rossi again.
Flogging a dead horse

We've been over this 100 times, Rossi's energy calculations were way off.
LENR is not fusion.
NASA = Never A Straight Answer............
Arb is right.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 05:46 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by consciousgod




Why would society change so much? It's like your utility switching from coal to gas. You like that there's less smog. Other than that life is pretty darn similar. Cars and aircraft totally changed people's habits and expectations for travel and business.


Society would change because the instant the fact that these machines exist and are ready to deploy hits wall street and the main stream, oil futures crash. This will cause a chain reaction that totally destroys all world economies and plunges the entire would into chaos.


This makes no sense. You realize that, all else being equal, lowering petroleum costs increases economic growth in oil consuming nations.

And, besides, these machines only purport to make hot water. (And we don't yet know that it produces excess work, either. Excess heat can come from a heat pump).

How are you going to run a Boeing on them?

If there's any temporary crash in oil futures as a result if this kind of news, I'm buying heavy. It will snap back very quickly, because people will realize that for next month's oil delivery people still need to fill up up their tanks at Exxon.

Changes in energy technology take many, many decades.


And a new world will emerge after suffering greatly but temporarily, but many will die of starvation.
edit on 14-1-2012 by consciousgod because: (no reason given)


Why?


This is going to happen very soon and not because of this cold fusion article. Lutec has patents in 86 countries for their free energy machine. These machines are being mass produced right now. These guys went into hiding over 6 years ago so they wouldn't be killed before they got their machine to market. Their machine was independently tested and found to be legit. They couldn't get 86 patents including US if this device wasn't tested/didn't work.

This is why this technology is already obsolete:

freeenergynews.com...

www.lutec.com.au...

www.lutec.com.au...

When these machines hit the market, oil futures will plummet in fear of the demand of oil plummeting when these machines take over the task that oil is used to do. It's supply and demand.

When oil plummets like it did in 2008, it starts a chain reaction. Huge layoffs in the oil industry. The stock market crashes. Short sellers drive the market down and destroy the dollar that is based on oil. Oil fields are shut down and the flow is stopped because there is a surplus of oil. Then, these machines do not get out fast enough. Oil is scarce. Oil prices climb but it is too late. We don't have enough oil to run our tractors or to make deliveries to the stores. People begin to panic when food is not delivered. Many people starve.

Sounds bleak. Could it happen?



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by consciousgod
 



This device was debunked by an condition in “the Doubter” in the spring of 2001. Lutec was offered a $100,000 reward if they could prove their claims, yet never allowable any testing to be done. Instead, the figures they provided showed the apparatus was 33% efficient, not 300%
*

More



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by consciousgod
 



This device was debunked by an condition in “the Doubter” in the spring of 2001. Lutec was offered a $100,000 reward if they could prove their claims, yet never allowable any testing to be done. Instead, the figures they provided showed the apparatus was 33% efficient, not 300%
*

More


I'm not so sure your article is accurate. They have 86 patents. Why? That's a lot of money to spend on nothing. Now they have moved to China to build their machines. Here is a section from the US patent office when I search for their patent number.

Bibliographic Data
Application Number: 09/831,169 Customer Number: -
Filing or 371 (c) Date: 07-13-2001 Status: Patented Case
Application Type: Utility Status Date: 09-18-2003
Examiner Name: RO, BENTSU Location: FILE REPOSITORY (FRANCONIA)
Group Art Unit: 2837 Location Date: 10-06-2003
Confirmation Number: 1104 Earliest Publication No: -
Attorney Docket Number: GH-01274 Earliest Publication Date: -
Class / Subclass: 318/439 Patent Number: 6,630,806
First Named Inventor: Ludwig Emma Brits , Manunda, (AU) Issue Date of Patent: 10-07-2003


Your article does not prove this is a fake. They have completed an independent test from an independent laboratory. The machine passed the test. This could very well be legit. I wouldn't discount it based on one skeptics research. I think the Australia government would have stopped them if this was nonsense. Fraud is illegal. Taking money from people under false pretense is fraud. These guys would be in jail if they were fraudulently stealing money. So, their must be more to it.
edit on 15-1-2012 by consciousgod because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by consciousgod


They have 86 patents. Why? That's a lot of money to spend on nothing.

 


No it's not, not when you are using investor funds. You will notice the patents they list are for "A System for Controlling a Rotary Device".




Now they have moved to China to build their machines.


Oh right...




Recently it has been reported that Lutec has given permission to a Hong Kong company to handle the licensing rights. This company is:

Evergreen Enterprise International LTD,
Floor 17 Tai Yau bldg, 181 Johnston Road,
Wan Chai, Hong Kong.
www.evergreenltd.com.hk...

I recently asked a colleague of mine, who lives in China and has a business in Hong Kong, to do a check on Evergreen Enterprise; and he has just reported back to me today that he visited the address.

It is an apartment block, and there is no such company listed on the occupants' directory in the foyer. However there is an accounting firm on that floor which would suggest that Evergreen is a shelf company and does not produce anything.

They are not listed in the Hong Kong telephone directory nor does their website carry any apartment number.

In the meantime, Lutec continues to advertise for investors for an unproven device that still remains unsubstantiated.


Source



Your article does not prove this is a fake.


No, it proves itself as one.




They have completed an independent test from an independent laboratory. The machine passed the test. This could very well be legit. I wouldn't discount it based on one skeptics research.


You have the paper to go along with that statement? Did it go up for peer review?




I think the Australia government would have stopped them if this was nonsense. Fraud is illegal.


Free energy scammers are very good at what they do. That's why they always stay in the R&D phase. When it really comes time to produce something though, big oil usually destroyed all their prototypes or some other nonsense story.

edit on 15-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by boncho
 


I admit you could very well be correct.

They have moved to the fraud/knock off capital of the world by moving to China.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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Lutec was a perendev motor, and not a very good one, it seems

OK Boncho, i'll give you that one.
And we really have dredged the bottom of this Rossi/LENR/fusion thing.
We had a similar thread where NASA was investigating gravity/microwave links.
Remember that one?



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 


The Lutec does indeed seem to be a Fraud. However that is not the topic of this thread.

Please stay on topic.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by boncho
 


The Lutec does indeed seem to be a Fraud. However that is not the topic of this thread.

Please stay on topic.


This coming from the person when asked to produce papers by NASA, you produced notes from random people on Rossi's ecat.

Why don't you address the questions that you are asked....



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by boncho
 





This coming from the person when asked to produce papers by NASA, you produced notes from random people on Rossi's ecat. Why don't you address the questions that you are asked....


Wow that statement really shows your ignorance, you know that?
You might want to re-read this thread from the beginning, and then actually give those links a chance.

and fyi

1. I was never asked about papers specifically from Nasa, but "on this" which means cold fusion/Lenr. The best papers "on this" is indeed those about Rossi, as Nasa are just trying to plagiarize what he is doing, but have no working model themselves. This you would know if you did any research yourself.

2. Rossi is the frontrunner here, not Nasa. While Nasa knows it to be real, they have no working prototype themselves and no complete theory. Rossi at least has a working model.(and not just a prototype, but hundreds)

3. Despite this, there are still alot of papers on this from Nasa, as well as from SPAWAR, plenty of which are already covered earlier in this thread by zorgon etc, no need for me to re-post those links again.

4. That statement also begs me to question your sincerity in this matter, as you would already know all of this if you had a genuine interest, which is what you want to convey to us that you have when asking about "peer-reviewed papers".

5. It is quite obvious by now that your only interest is to find any angle of attack to try to discredit alot of topics here on ATS, and has been for quite some time. From now on, don´t expect to be taken seriously by me or anyone else that have also seen this when posting anything, as you will most probably be ignored.
edit on 15-1-2012 by NeoVain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by drakus
If he starts selling them around say 21-dec, it'll be "epicly" funny.
I was not aware of these Naval Command of Whatever researches into Cold fusion, granted, I never really studied much of the topic.


Oh, that alternative energy and propulsion research.... Don't worry about it - it is just a fringe topic for conspiracy geeks.

The search for alternative "free"/low/zero input energy sources AND alternative propulsion systems is probably the single most important challenge facing humanity.

Humans are breeding, quickly, and need to start to colonise outer space before we run out of space on Earth. We also need to power our technology with a growing population.

We are desperately dependent on a constantly growing economy, which feeds on energy. If energy and transportation were very cheap we would need less money to buy things and therefore need to work less - meaning that the smaller labour force required as technology advances will be less of an issue as will a shrinking economy. In economics less really could be more in the long run.

The liberation of humanity from energy dependence to energy independence will be good news for most people alive. It would likely be a complete disaster for the Western free market economic system.

All we have to do then is get rid of the banks; open up the elitist divisive education system (free education for all); take big pharmaceuticals and health care out of private hands and forever free it from greed; convert arms manufacture to alternative propulsion engineering and space colonisation; wars over territory and resources will stop as a consequence of our lower requirements for raw materials and space AND THEN YOU CAN SAY HUMANS ARE READY TO JOIN THE GALACTIC CLUB (well there is still the thorny question of nukes!).

Then the navy and DIA and certain people in the CIA will finally have to admit that they knew it was aliens all along and they had the technology already but were scared of ruining the wonderful social, political and economic system


Then and only then will certain folks on ATS will eat humble pie if they want inviting to the party and be handed their Galactic Citizens ID card.


So vote Pimander for President. Free energy is the first step to freedom for the people. You know it makes sense!


Will it be allowed to happen in our life times? Or will ATS still be a place where useful idiots (pseudo-skeptics and also the perhaps more obvious variety of delusional type) continue to cast doubt over the many real conspiracies some of us study - the very conspiracies that keep the above progress from happening.
edit on 15/1/12 by Pimander because: (no reason given)
edit on 15/1/12 by Pimander because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by Raelsatu


I remember arguing with Boncho about it back when, and he was convinced it was another sham by Rossi, instantly discrediting it and saying there was no possible way.

Only a number of months later. He's now manufacturing 1 million home unit E-Cats and they will go up for sale this Fall, possibly even earlier if he sets the timeline back. So you really think he came this entire way & is going to manufacture a million units, all part of a hoax???

The chances of it being a hoax at this point is nil.

 


Somehow I missed this post. Actually, number 1, Rossi has lied many times in the last year regarding how, and what way he would be commercializing the ecat. Not only that, but his last invention, actually went into production and was sold to the end user -not working as expected-

He of course blamed the problem on the outsourced manufacturer. But yes, he has done it before.

So...

1. Chances are not nil.
2. Care to show us where this factory is that is going to produce 1 million units? If you want to know the capital and infrastructure needed to accomplish such a feat, you can look at auto manufacturers. But something tells me you wont find the evidence to support the talk.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by NeoVain


I was never asked about papers specifically from Nasa, but "on this" which means cold fusion/Lenr.

 


Your thread title is "NASA Officially confirms: Cold Fusion(LENR) is REAL"

Arbitrageur then asked you "Where's the peer reviewed paper on this? Scientific discoveries are published in papers."

I think the papers being from NASA was implied. As you specifically stated that they confirmed LENR "is real".




The best papers "on this" is indeed those about Rossi, as Nasa are just trying to plagiarize what he is doing, but have no working model themselves.


Rossi has had none of his work peer reviewed. In fact, he created his own "Journal of Nuclear Physics which is actually a blog. And while he claims...


Peer Review All the articles published on the Journal Of Nuclear Physics are Peer Reviewed. The Peer Review of every paper is made by at least one University Physics Professor.


His original board of cohorts included a dead professor.




This you would know if you did any research yourself.


Ah... But I probably know more than you about this topic so I am not worried.




Rossi at least has a working model.(and not just a prototype, but hundreds)


So says he.




Despite this, there are still alot of papers on this from Nasa, as well as from SPAWAR, plenty of which are already covered earlier in this thread by zorgon etc, no need for me to re-post those links again.


Excuse me but I missed the papers from NASA. It has been known for a long time that the navy has been actively researching all types of fusion and fission, including the not so well known kind.

What NASA has done in your OP, is confirmed they are also actively researching it, but not saying that they have found anything.




That statement also begs me to question your sincerity in this matter, as you would already know all of this if you had a genuine interest, which is what you want to convey to us that you have when asking about "peer-reviewed papers".



Just looking to get the facts straight. You?




It is quite obvious by now that your only interest is to find any angle of attack to try to discredit alot of topics here on ATS, and has been for quite some time. From now on, don´t expect to be taken seriously by me or anyone else that have also seen this when posting anything, as you will most probably be ignored.


People that read my posts know I aim to post as close to reality as possible. I source my material and I retract if I am shown to be in the wrong. So I have no problem being ignored by the likes of you.




edit on 15-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-1-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by NeoVain
2. Rossi is the frontrunner here, not Nasa. While Nasa knows it to be real, they have no working prototype themselves and no complete theory. Rossi at least has a working model.(and not just a prototype, but hundreds)
In other words, NASA hasn't confirmed anything!

Way to debunk your own thread!



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by NeoVain
 


Now, why don't we take the word of the person who was in the video, since your thread is based around what they said:

(Their response to the video feedback)

Source


First the disclaimers: While I do work for NASA, I do not speak for them. They employ me for my professional capabilities and on occasion my professional opinion.

Nothing I say should ever be construed as anything other than my personal opinion. As a NASA employee I am allowed and often times encouraged to say what I think. This and the exceptional people I get to work with every day are what make NASA great and a great place to work.


And of course, regarding the Rossi & ecat comments:


There have been many attempts to twist the release of this video into NASA’s support for LENR or as proof that Rossi’s e-cat really works. Many extraordinary claims have been made in 2010. In my scientific opinion, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I find a distinct absence of the latter.

So let me be very clear here. While I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation, I remain skeptical. Furthermore, I am unaware of any clear and convincing demonstrations of any viable commercial device producing useful amounts of net energy.


And regarding the actual stance on LENR?


There has been a lot of work done in the past 20+ years. When considered in aggregate I believe excess power has been demonstrated. I did not say, reliable, useful, commercially viable, or controllable. If any of those other terms were applicable I would have used them instead. If anything, it is the lack of a single clear demonstration of reliable, useful, and controllable production of excess power that has held LENR research back


It is quite an interesting read. If I do say so myself.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by NeoVain
2. Rossi is the frontrunner here, not Nasa. While Nasa knows it to be real, they have no working prototype themselves and no complete theory. Rossi at least has a working model.(and not just a prototype, but hundreds)
In other words, NASA hasn't confirmed anything!

Way to debunk your own thread!


Even better, the person who he based his evidence on, debunked himself in response to the video. As he was being taken out of context.

Joe Zawodny



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by boncho
Joe Zawodny
Wow!

That's the nail in the coffin of this thread.


So let me be very clear here. While I personally find sufficient demonstration that LENR effects warrant further investigation, I remain skeptical. Furthermore, I am unaware of any clear and convincing demonstrations of any viable commercial device producing useful amounts of net energy.


Thread closed. (j/k)





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