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posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Pinke
 


You are not wrong.

But sometimes the scientists are shocked when they get unexpected results because they believed so strongly in their theory, and discarded anything that did not fit, rather than concentrating on why it doesn't fit.

The church analogy was a bit poor, i know, but that is more & more like modern 'education' a.k.a. stuffing their heads with facts & figures & assumptions generally held to be true that they forget that the main role of 'education' is to get you to think.
Question everything, try to solve problems yourself instead of asking G**gle, read everything.
Interestingly, many 'conflicting' theories tend towards a common point of reference, which in my mind, must be considered as 'worthy' as classical mainstream science, and again, it's looking for the parts that don't fit that gets results.
Just my 21/2 cents

ETA: By 'read everything' you may be forced to use G@@rgoyle, but then you need to fit a very fine bull***t filter
edit on 16-1-2012 by playswithmachines because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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So, let me see if I got this straight....

Science doesn't know *EVERYTHING*, therefore Science Knows *NOTHING*


Right?

Am I reading this correctly?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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Ok, Hold on.... let me see if I am reading this different thing correctly.....

Now, Stop me if I'm misinterpreting this.... but I believe that the common "Wisdom" in this thread is:

The fact that some scientific theories have been disproved, despite people believing in them, is PROOF that belief creates reality?

IS this the game you all are playing?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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Ok, here is a question for all of you quantum crystal energy hand wavers.....


If belief creates reality, then why would we ever find *ANY* evidence that is contrary to what we believe?

How do Accidents happen, if belief creates reality?

Why didn't Columbus sail off the edge of the world?

What about Earthquakes?
edit on 16-1-2012 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
So, let me see if I got this straight....

Science doesn't know *EVERYTHING*, therefore Science Knows *NOTHING*


Right?

Am I reading this correctly?


No. Science knows a lot, just as individuals know a lot. Facts and evidence can be known, as can absolute truths (i.e mathematics).

Not sure where you got that.




Ok, Hold on.... let me see if I am reading this different thing correctly.....

Now, Stop me if I'm misinterpreting this.... but I believe that the common "Wisdom" in this thread is:

The fact that some scientific theories have been disproved, despite people believing in them, is PROOF that belief creates reality?

IS this the game you all are playing?



No, at least that is not how I see. I can't speak for others in here. The fact that some scientific theories have been disproven is evidence that things may not be how we once believed.

I'll get to the explanation of belief next, as it is part of your next question.




Ok, here is a question for all of you quantum crystal energy hand wavers.....


If belief creates reality, then why would we ever find *ANY* evidence that is contrary to what we believe?

How do Accidents happen, if belief creates reality?

Why didn't Columbus sail off the edge of the world?

What about Earthquakes?


I'm sorry but I do not know what you are referring to when you say "quantum crystal energy hand wavers....."

Belief does not create reality. Reality is already created, by your perception. Belief is more-or-less an opinion. I can believe that Unicorns exist but that does not mean I will perceive them.

It is like someone explaining to you the taste of an apple. They tell you what it tastes like, its sweet, and soft, yet crunchy, it tastes like... an apple. It tastes good. And so, you believe an apple to taste good. You can go your whole life believe that an apple tastes good, even if you have never tried one. Who knows, you may even dislike the taste of an apple?

However, until you experience the taste of an apple, you'll never know.


By the way, who says they are accidents?



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 10:00 PM
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What's with all the hate ErtaiNaGia?

It's ok to not agree with the idea that "scientific proof" isn't really proof because what we know of science changes constantly, but you're going too far.

Get over it, not everyone agrees with the same ideas and that' what makes people think and evolve.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 



No. Science knows a lot, just as individuals know a lot. Facts and evidence can be known, as can absolute truths (i.e mathematics).

Not sure where you got that.


Then you already agree that things within science can be proven.


No, at least that is not how I see. I can't speak for others in here. The fact that some scientific theories have been disproven is evidence that things may not be how we once believed.


Then you agree that reality is objective, as opposed to subjective.


I'm sorry but I do not know what you are referring to when you say "quantum crystal energy hand wavers....."


Again, this is hyperbole.


Belief does not create reality. Reality is already created, by your perception.


And this is a meaningless statement, that is false by it's very existence.

If perception creates reality, then how can we ever be surprised?

Shouldn't we perceive things before they exist, if perception creates reality?

How can things ever happen that we didn't foresee?


I can believe that Unicorns exist but that does not mean I will perceive them.


You seem to believe that if you believe in something enough, then you will perceive it, and that will make it real.

I have already proven that this is not the case, as is evident by the measurements taken of the angle of the sun's incidence on the planet by the ancient greeks....


Most all people perceived the world to be flat at that time.... so if perception creates reality, how was the earth measured to be a sphere?

If perception creates reality, and the perception of the earth was that of a flat disc, why would measurements disagree with this perception?


It is like someone explaining to you the taste of an apple.


No, it's like someone claiming that the apple doesn't exist, because they can't SEE it.


However, until you experience the taste of an apple, you'll never know.


Just because YOU don't perceive the apple, doesn't mean that it doesn't Exist.... it just means that you don't perceive it.


By the way, who says they are accidents?


So, you stubbed your toe, because you perceived that you WOULD stub your toe, and then reality bent according to this perception?

Honestly... this is like arguing with children.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by User8911
 



What's with all the hate ErtaiNaGia?


This isn't Hate... This is Truth.

There is a difference.


It's ok to not agree with the idea that "scientific proof" isn't really proof because what we know of science changes constantly


We are not talking about some theory being disproven, we are talking about the Existence of Existence.

It's not something that is open to debate.


but you're going too far.


Would you like to explain what you mean?

Or is this just something that you think is so, just because you believe it?


Get over it, not everyone agrees with the same ideas and that' what makes people think and evolve.


Again, we are not talking about some obscure metaphysical interpretation of philosophy.....

We are speaking of the Existence of Reality.

This is not something that you can just hand-wave away.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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Then you already agree that things within science can be proven.


Huh? I said facts and evidence can be known. I never said that science can prove absolute proofs.



Then you agree that reality is objective, as opposed to subjective.


No. Believed, not perceived.



Again, this is hyperbole.


Regardless of it being a hyperbole, I am still not sure what you are referring to.



And this is a meaningless statement, that is false by it's very existence.

If perception creates reality, then how can we ever be surprised?

Shouldn't we perceive things before they exist, if perception creates reality?

How can things ever happen that we didn't foresee?


Because that perception is created by your unconscious (subconscious) mind. You aren't aware of what your subconscious is thinking. Also, your subconscious attributes 90% of activity whereas your conscious mind only supplies 10%. Your subconscious mind keeps your heart beating 72 times a minute for approximately 100 years. It regulates blood pressure, monitors levels of chemicals in your body, changes body temperature, helps you respond to emergencies.

It should also be noted that "DREAMING is a result of the subconscious mind". Ever heard the quote by Pedro Calderon de la Barca "For all of life is a dream, and dreams themselves only dreams."

In any event, you are using your conscious mind to interpret things. Whereas the subconscious that you are unable to listen to, is creating. Also, you state as if "we think and THEN reality is created" as if it is not an instantaneous moment.



You seem to believe that if you believe in something enough, then you will perceive it, and that will make it real.

I have already proven that this is not the case, as is evident by the measurements taken of the angle of the sun's incidence on the planet by the ancient greeks....


It does not matter what is true for us now. If somebody back then believed something to be true, and thought that their whole life - even died thinking that - then of course, it would be true for them.


Most all people perceived the world to be flat at that time.... so if perception creates reality, how was the earth measured to be a sphere?

If perception creates reality, and the perception of the earth was that of a flat disc, why would measurements disagree with this perception?


Most people perceive the world as being a sphere now, no? And so measurements seem to agree with them.
Why dont you try asking these guys about the Earth being flat or round. I'm sure they'll be happy to explain =)
The Flat Earth Society



Just because YOU don't perceive the apple, doesn't mean that it doesn't Exist.... it just means that you don't perceive it.


If you do not perceive the apple how can you honestly say that it DOES exist? Can't.

Sure, the apple may exist for someone else. However, they perceive it.



So, you stubbed your toe, because you perceived that you WOULD stub your toe, and then reality bent according to this perception?


This sort of thing happens all the time. The subconscious mind is programmed by you to be aware of the evil furniture. Of course, your conscious mind isn't aware of that thought. Usually it becomes subconsciously habitual. As for what was the first perception that resulted in the very first toe-stub. I haven't a clue.



Honestly... this is like arguing with children.


Come on now. That's an over-statement! More like babies



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 02:38 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by tangonine
...post removed...


Cool. I suppose I could be irrational too.

None of what you are arguing about was proclaimed in the OP.

I never said the people that attempt to understand the Universe were not brilliant.
I never said that the information produced was not meaningful and awesome.
I never said physics was folly because it was is perfect.
I never said physicists do not do the best they can.

I am not "b[snip]ing" about science. I was complaining about the users within the thread.

I do not have a better explanation and I will not "stfu".

Save your points, man.
edit on 17-1-2012 by ErroneousDylan because: Typo.
edit on 17-1-2012 by alien because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 



Huh? I said facts and evidence can be known. I never said that science can prove absolute proofs.


So, you are stating that there is no quantitative or qualitative difference between Knowledge, and Belief?


No. Believed, not perceived.


So, you didn't understand the question then?


Regardless of it being a hyperbole, I am still not sure what you are referring to.


Then don't worry about it, it was just hyperbole.... sort of.


Because that perception is created by your unconscious (subconscious) mind.


Quantum crystal healing energy hand waiving.


You aren't aware of what your subconscious is thinking.


Ah.... so, you are saying that you are correct, because of Deus Ex Machina, right?


Also, your subconscious attributes 90% of activity whereas your conscious mind only supplies 10%


So, the only reason that your cells undergo respiration, is because you perceive them to be doing so, right?




Your subconscious mind keeps your heart beating 72 times a minute for approximately 100 years.


By perceiving your heart beating?

Really?

Your heart is beating, because your subconscious mind PERCEIVES it to be beating?

Really?

Honestly, where do you come up with this stuff?


It regulates blood pressure, monitors levels of chemicals in your body, changes body temperature, helps you respond to emergencies.


And you are stating, *AS FACT* that the only reason that any of this is happening, is because your subconscious PERCEIVES it that way.... yes?


It should also be noted that "DREAMING is a result of the subconscious mind".


Odd... because while I have had that "Going to school naked" dream... It has never actually happened in real life...
How do you reconcile this contradiction in your premise?


Ever heard the quote by Pedro Calderon de la Barca "For all of life is a dream, and dreams themselves only dreams."


Oh, of course... appeal to authority.... That makes everything that you are saying true!!!

YAY!!! BIG HAPPY FUN TIME!!!


In any event, you are using your conscious mind to interpret things.


*NO*


You quite clearly stated that you are using your concious mind to *CREATE REALITY*, not interpret reality.

If you are going to argue a point, at least have the decency to keep your points self consistent.


Whereas the subconscious that you are unable to listen to, is creating.


Oh, ok... now it all makes sense.... it's not your Concious mind that's creating reality... it's your Deus Ex Machina that is creating reality....

So when I point to contradictions in your premise, you can just say "Sub-concious did it!" as if it's an actual explanation....


And you think that *SCIENCE* is a system of belief, based on Faith?

Honestly... you clearly have your perception of reality screwed on wrong.


Also, you state as if "we think and THEN reality is created" as if it is not an instantaneous moment.


As opposed to a delayed moment? or a Hasted moment?

Or perhaps a quickened or 5th dimensional moment?

Are you sure that it's not Precognitive?

Like, you perceive things happening in the future by your subconscious mind, and *THAT* brings them into being in the present?

Of COURSE!!! that's all you need for your theory.... Time travelling perception that creates the reality that it perceives in the future by perceiving the thing that hasn't happened yet!

YAY!!! HAPPY TIME!!!


It does not matter what is true for us now.


Then why are you even arguing the point?


If somebody back then believed something to be true, and thought that their whole life - even died thinking that - then of course, it would be true for them.


........

"It would be true for them"

Nice.... do you know what the term "Delusion" means?


Most people perceive the world as being a sphere now, no? And so measurements seem to agree with them.


You didn't answer my question, you are just trying to distract from it.


Why dont you try asking these guys about the Earth being flat or round. I'm sure they'll be happy to explain =)
The Flat Earth Society


Well, if THEY believe that the earth is flat.... then how are they able to use satellite communications?

Shouldn't their "Perception" of reality interfere with the communication satellites orbits?


If you do not perceive the apple how can you honestly say that it DOES exist? Can't.


Again, you are not answering the question, you are just distracting FROM the question.

Probably because you *CAN'T* answer the question without making yourself look like a fool.
edit on 17-1-2012 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 03:25 AM
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reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 



Sure, the apple may exist for someone else. However, they perceive it.


Let me go ahead and spell this one out for you, because apparently you don't get it.

Reality is Reality.

Perception is Perception.

The terms are not interchangeable, no matter how much you stick your head in the sand, cover your ears, and sing to yourself....

Reality is *REAL*, it is not a figment of your perceptions, it EXISTS DESPITE YOUR OBSERVATIONS.


This sort of thing happens all the time. The subconscious mind is programmed by you to be aware of the evil furniture.


Again with the Deus Ex Machina.... Your "Sub-concious Mind" creates reality, whenever it can be proven that your premise is complete Bull[snip].

How very convenient..


Of course, your conscious mind isn't aware of that thought. Usually it becomes subconsciously habitual. As for what was the first perception that resulted in the very first toe-stub. I haven't a clue.


Then why are you arguing the point as if you do?


Come on now. That's an over-statement! More like babies


I was giving you the bennifit of the doubt, because most babies are not able to communicate with language.

But, if you insist.....


How did the First Sentient Human come into being, if there was no concious mind to perceive them into existence?

How did the first life form come into existence, if there was no SUB-concious mind to "Deus Ex Machina" them into existence?
edit on 17-1-2012 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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Its a conflict between Scientific Proof, which does not exist, and Personal Proof, which is really all that matters.
If I touch it, feel it and see it, then its real, otherwise it is Scientific Theory. Is that not true of all of us?



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 03:49 AM
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Propagandists want you to believe that perception creates reality.

Because they control your perception of reality.

So they want you to believe that they create reality.

This is not exactly a difficult concept to understand.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 04:00 AM
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So, you are stating that there is no quantitative difference between Knowledge, and Belief?


Did I say that or did you assume that? Back to arguing semantics, I suppose.
Knowledge: acquaintance with facts, facts that we believe to be true.



So, the only reason that your cells undergo respiration, is because you perceive them to be doing so, right?

By perceiving your heart beating?

Really?

Your heart is beating, because your subconscious mind PERCEIVES it to be beating?

Really?

Honestly, where do you come up with this stuff?

And you are stating, *AS FACT* that the only reason that any of this is happening, is because your subconscious PERCEIVES it that way.... yes?


Honestly, where do you come up with this stuff?

Can you quote me where I wrote "your subconscious mind perceives it to be beating"? That would be a nice start.

You are acting as if because of the statement of subconscious perception, that action does not exist. Reality is created, and with it physical items. Physical items that run systematically. Remember, the subconscious mind accounts for 90% of your mental function, which includes controlling the brain to regulate the body. Sheesh, take things out of context more, please.



Odd... because while I have had that "Going to school naked" dream... It has never actually happened in real life...
How do you reconcile this contradiction in your premise?


"Contradiction" *teehee*. That just supports the fact that the mind creates reality. You were asleep. You dreamt, you were in another world - another reality - one which you thought was real, because it was real, in relevancy.

Go ahead and explain to me this concept of "real life" you speak of.



Oh, of course... appeal to authority.... That makes everything that you are saying true!!!

YAY!!! BIG HAPPY FUN TIME!!!


Good, let the inner child flow through you...



You quite clearly stated that you are using your concious mind to *CREATE REALITY*, not interpret reality.

If you are going to argue a point, at least have the decency to keep your points self consistent.
"quite clearly"?? Uhm... have you even been reading before you respond? I don't think I need to count how many times I have said "subconscious" not "conscious".



As opposed to a delayed moment? or a Hasted moment?

Or perhaps a quickened or 5th dimensional moment?

Are you sure that it's not Precognitive?

Like, you perceive things happening in the future by your subconscious mind, and *THAT* brings them into being in the present?

Of COURSE!!! that's all you need for your theory.... Time travelling perception that creates the reality that it perceives in the future by perceiving the thing that hasn't happened yet!

YAY!!! HAPPY TIME!!!


At least try to post something constructive please.




Nice.... do you know what the term "Delusion" means?


I remember when I used to be close-minded.



You didn't answer my question, you are just trying to distract from it.


I already did answer it. Your response would have been "Nice.... do you know what the term "Delusion" means?"



Well, if THEY believe that the earth is flat.... then how are they able to use satellite communications?

Shouldn't their "Perception" of reality interfere with the communication satellites orbits?


Their perception or their belief? Regardless, how am I supposed to know a question relevant to someone else? Why don't you ask them like I suggested?



Again, you are not answering the question, you are just distracting FROM the question.

Probably because you *CAN'T* answer the question without making yourself look like a fool.


Wow... I have never seen a more blatant example of hypocrisy. Let's see... did you answer my question? NOPE.
You said "just because you don't perceive the apple, doesn't mean that it doesn't Exist..."

That is exactly what it means? Perception is (as per dictionary): "the act or faculty of apprehending by means of the senses or of the mind; cognition; understanding." So, obviously, if someone didn't perceive something, it wouldn't exist, for them.

Also, as I stated in my previous answer, the apple will obviously exist for someone who perceives it.

So, now will you please answer my question that you are "distracting FROM".

"If you do not perceive the apple, how can you say that it DOES exist?"

"Probably because you *CAN'T* (cute little asterisks) answer the question without making yourself look like a fool."

"Probably"

"Probably"



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 04:13 AM
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Let me go ahead and spell this one out for you, because apparently you don't get it.

Reality is Reality.

Perception is Perception.

The terms are not interchangeable, no matter how much you stick your head in the sand, cover your ears, and sing to yourself....


Thank you for clarifying that for me. Since you, yourself, have made that statement, I now know the truth.
^--Sarcasm

You say yes, I say no. It's all opinion now, in regards to practical use (let's not get semantic again, please). That's just how you perceive reality, is all.



Reality is *REAL*, it is not a figment of your perceptions, it EXISTS DESPITE YOUR OBSERVATIONS.


Prove it. =D



Then why are you arguing the point as if you do?


Because I made the argument "I know what was the first thought that programmed your subconscious mind!", right? You have a vey bad habit of putting words in people's mouth.



How did the First Sentient Human come into being, if there was no concious mind to perceive them into existence?

How did the first life form come into existence, if there was no SUB-concious mind to "Deus Ex Machina" them into existence?
edit on 17-1-2012 by ErtaiNaGia because: (no reason given)


How am I suppose to know that? That is an extreeeeeeeemely vague question that cold result in many variable answers, none of which I would know any way.

That is essentially asking the ultimate "Big Bang" question.


Any way, was fun. Goodnight.



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 04:14 AM
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Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
Propagandists want you to believe that perception creates reality.

Because they control your perception of reality.

So they want you to believe that they create reality.

This is not exactly a difficult concept to understand.


Also, wow haha. I love how rational you are. (more sarcasm).

"Propagandists". Really? Really?!

I kind of feel bad for arguing with you now...



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 



Knowledge: acquaintance with facts, facts that we believe to be true.


So, you are stating that there is no quantitative difference between Knowledge, and Belief?



Honestly, where do you come up with this stuff?


Honestly, where do you come up with this stuff?


You just going to repeat what I say now?


Can you quote me where I wrote "your subconscious mind perceives it to be beating"? That would be a nice start.


Very Well:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Because that perception is created by your unconscious (subconscious) mind. You aren't aware of what your subconscious is thinking. Also, your subconscious attributes 90% of activity whereas your conscious mind only supplies 10%. Your subconscious mind keeps your heart beating 72 times a minute for approximately 100 years.

....

In any event, you are using your conscious mind to interpret things. Whereas the subconscious that you are unable to listen to, is creating.



You are acting as if because of the statement of subconscious perception, that action does not exist.


This sentence does not mean anything.


Reality is created, and with it physical items. Physical items that run systematically.


Would you like to explain what you mean by "Physical items that run systematically"?

Because as it stands, that doesn't mean anything either.


Remember, the subconscious mind accounts for 90% of your mental function, which includes controlling the brain to regulate the body.


You are also stating that your sub concious mind creates reality, Remember?

Including creating your body.

Try not to contradict yourself in the span of a mere 2 posts... its amateurish.


Sheesh, take things out of context more, please.


>Implying that I am taking things out of context.



Odd... because while I have had that "Going to school naked" dream... It has never actually happened in real life...

How do you reconcile this contradiction in your premise?


"Contradiction" *teehee*. That just supports the fact that the mind creates reality.


Oh, ok, I see what you mean now....

What you are saying *ISN'T* that Perception creates reality, But that Perception of reality is just your perception of reality.....

Right?


You were asleep. You dreamt, you were in another world - another reality - one which you thought was real, because it was real, in relevancy.


So... You don't know what "Real" means either, eh?


Go ahead and explain to me this concept of "real life" you speak of.


Why do you ask when you already know the answer.

You have already demonstrated an awareness of the differentiation between "Dreams" and *REALITY*.....

Asking me to explain a concept that you are OBVIOUSLY already familiar with is redundant, and pointless argumentative masturbation.


Good, let the inner child flow through you...


This was not the inner child... this was Sarcasm.



You quite clearly stated that you are using your concious mind to *CREATE REALITY*, not interpret reality.

If you are going to argue a point, at least have the decency to keep your points self consistent.


"quite clearly"?? Uhm... have you even been reading before you respond? I don't think I need to count how many times I have said "subconscious" not "conscious".


Do you really want to go there?


In the end, it really does come down to your own personal belief. Unless, of course, you are a nihilist and don't believe in anything.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


You are forgetting that Reality is subjective and is unique perceived by each individual's mind =)

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Since this is each individual's reality, one could technically fall victim to a means of perceiving the existence of the Earth as nil.

Of course, there are various means but I will state the example of a societally deemed "mental" person. His/her mind could become so altered that they could start perceiving the Earth as non-existant. They could have visual disturbances (hallucinations) that cause them to view the Universe as if they are floating in space, and the world is no longer existant to them because of some tragic accident.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



ErtaiNaGia
Then you agree that reality is objective, as opposed to subjective.


No. Believed, not perceived.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 17 2012 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by ErroneousDylan
 




ErtaiNaGia
Odd... because while I have had that "Going to school naked" dream... It has never actually happened in real life...
How do you reconcile this contradiction in your premise?


"Contradiction" *teehee*. That just supports the fact that the mind creates reality. You were asleep. You dreamt, you were in another world - another reality - one which you thought was real, because it was real, in relevancy.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


At least try to post something constructive please.


That's exactly what I am doing.

Whether you *PERCEIVE* it that way or not.


I remember when I used to be close-minded.


I guess the memory is still fresh, eh?





ErtaiNaGia
Most all people perceived the world to be flat at that time.... so if perception creates reality, how was the earth measured to be a sphere?

If perception creates reality, and the perception of the earth was that of a flat disc, why would measurements disagree with this perception?


Most people perceive the world as being a sphere now, no? And so measurements seem to agree with them.


ErtaiNaGia
You didn't answer my question, you are just trying to distract from it.


I already did answer it. Your response would have been "Nice.... do you know what the term "Delusion" means?"


/me wipes off hands.



Well, if THEY believe that the earth is flat.... then how are they able to use satellite communications?

Shouldn't their "Perception" of reality interfere with the communication satellites orbits?


Their perception or their belief? Regardless, how am I supposed to know a question relevant to someone else? Why don't you ask them like I suggested?


You have already *CLEARLY* indicated that Perception, both Concious and Sub-concious creates reality, as does BELIEF.



ErtaiNaGia
Then you agree that reality is objective, as opposed to subjective.


No. Believed, not perceived.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So your response is merely splitting hairs that you yourself have tangled into knots to distract from the fact that you are just making it all up as you go along.







ErtaiNaGiaOk, here is a question for all of you quantum crystal energy hand wavers.....


If belief creates reality, then why would we ever find *ANY* evidence that is contrary to what we believe?

How do Accidents happen, if belief creates reality?

Why didn't Columbus sail off the edge of the world?

What about Earthquakes?


It is like someone explaining to you the taste of an apple. They tell you what it tastes like, its sweet, and soft, yet crunchy, it tastes like... an apple. It tastes good. And so, you believe an apple to taste good. You can go your whole life believe that an apple tastes good, even if you have never tried one. Who knows, you may even dislike the taste of an apple?

However, until you experience the taste of an apple, you'll never know.


ErtaiNaGia
Just because YOU don't perceive the apple, doesn't mean that it doesn't Exist.... it just means that you don't perceive it.


If you do not perceive the apple how can you honestly say that it DOES exist? Can't.


ErtaiNaGia
Again, you are not answering the question, you are just distracting FROM the question.

Probably because you *CAN'T* answer the question without making yourself look like a fool.


Wow... I have never seen a more blatant example of hypocrisy. Let's see... did you answer my question? NOPE.
You said "just because you don't perceive the apple, doesn't mean that it doesn't Exist..."


Yes... hypocrisy... blatant...

You still haven't answered my questions.


That is exactly what it means? Perception is (as per dictionary): "the act or faculty of apprehending by means of the senses or of the mind; cognition; understanding." So, obviously, if someone didn't perceive something, it wouldn't exist, for them.


You are still confusing Perception with Reality.

Just because you don't perceive something, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.


Also, as I stated in my previous answer, the apple will obviously exist for someone who perceives it.


IT exists DESPITE their perceptions of it.


So, now will you please answer my question that you are "distracting FROM".

"If you do not perceive the apple, how can you say that it DOES exist?"


A: You are still distracting from my previous questions by pretending that you didn't ask your question as a distraction from mine.

B: The apple Exists despite our perceptions, or lack thereof, as cited in my previously quoted Questions to you, that you have never answered.





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