Hey Zap what do you say about my question????
Originally posted by Hunting VeritasOriginally posted by Zaphod58 I still don't see it. I see lens flare, and I see clouds, but I don't see a smoke trail in that picture.Notice its there, then it moves into the building. Lens flare, lol. Thats a good one
Peace
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Planes leave smoke trails but they do not produce ones as dense as the one from the "apparant" flight 77Blue smoke ---> oil burning Black smoke ---> low oxigen(=low speed), a lot of fuel White smoke ---> high oxigen (=high speed), low fuel, oil leak or coolant
Originally posted by Hunting VeritasMaybe because the timespan between the impact with the lightpoles and the building is approximately 5 seconds?Originally posted by CatHerder The 5 frames of blurry video is not good supporting evidence for anything. It's not good evidence of a 757 hitting the Pentagon; it's not good evidence of something other than a 757 hitting the Pentagon. I've always said that, and anyone rational would agree with that assessment. But... since you'd like to discuss it I'll offer some counterpoints to your post(s). -=- So a jet engine that hits 4 or 5 light poles on the way in and takes damage doesn't smoke?Ok, So why doesn't ANY of the eyewitnesses claim to see smoke?
What? Just because it was going 514mph when it impacted the Pentagon does not mean it was going 514mph from the time it was wheels up... The "difficult turn" (according to sensationalized news reports and NOT according to Boeing or any commercial pilot I've talked to) was a 270 degree turn, which decended 7,000 ft, and took over 2.5 minutes, at an airspeed under 400mph. (It didn't impact the Pentagon for another 2+ minutes.) How does this apply to the 2.5 minute 270-degree spiral turn? The G forces produced by such a turn can be calculated using the following formula. RCF = 0.001118 * r * N^2 where RCF = Relative Centrifugal Force (gravities) r = rotation radius (meters) N = rotation speed (revolutions per minute) If the plane were traveling at 400 miles per hour it would travel 16.666 miles, or 26,821 meters, in 2.5 minutes. Assuming it was traveling in a circular arc, it would trace out 3/4ths of a circle with a 35,761-meter circumference, giving a rotation radius of 5,691 meters and rotation speed of 0.3 rotations per minute. Plugging those values into the above equation, we obtain a centrifugal force of 0.5726 Gs -- hardly a problem for a 757 whose rated G limits are over two. The reason you have an airtraffic controller quoted as saying "...we all thought in the radar room ...that it was a military plane" is because a commercial passenger jet would not perform such a turn. Passenger jets have strict operating parameters set forth by the FAA to ensure only slow methodical maneuvers while flying with passengers (no bumps and gforces on the passengers). The SAME aircraft (a 757) when used as a cargo plane (FexEx/UPS/etc) does not have to adhere to these same parameters. It's not a matter of aircraft operating within safety parameters for the craft's structure or design, it's a set of rules so you don't injure passengers or make your customers all puke.A jet engine operating at near full throttle at under 100 feet altitude isn't operating outside of normal parameters and shouldn't smoke?Near full throttle, I would say according to the speed it was travelling which you quoted was going over 500mph. Please do tell how you can control a 100 ton boeing 757 (Yes I have played MS Flight sim as an experiment). That does not mean I can fly a boeing. The many attempts I had doing this massive turn is just daunting. If it really was travelling at over 500mph how can it bank as sharply without crashing.
Once again... something that has been pointed out, explained, etc., many times in the this thread: ground effect. He was not performing any turns at low altitude - see above. I think you've confused his flight path with his approach.The airliner was going over 500 mph when it hit the building, 757-200s and 300s land at about 130-135 kts (150-155mph) and take off at about 140-145 kts (161-167mph). This aircraft was going over 350mph faster than one normally flys at this altitude!Again how can a guy who can hardly fly a sesna manage to pull such a massive scale turn at maximum speed without crashing into the ground.
I do not see that bright white blotch follow anything anywhere. I see it in one frame and then I do not see it in the next frame. It looks like a white puffy cloud in frame 1, and then it's gone in frame 2.But then I personally don't think its smoke from a jet engine or a missile... Water vapor is what it probably is (and this is just my best "guess"). It's probably moisture from the ground, or sprinkler heads in the lawn, forced into the air by the tremendous air pressure caused by the aircraft (ground effect). That would certainly explain why it is not prominent in any of the frames that follow.ahhh, we've had Zaph say its a smudge and you say its moisture from the ground. But it is followed, right into the building but in NONE of the frames does it show the ACTUAL aircraft.
So we have no conclusive proof that a 757 hit the pentagon and no way on earth can a pilot with such little flying skills manage to do a near 360 spiral downward without crashing into the ground and saying that it was 500mph 100ft above the ground.You appear to have absolutely no knowledge of what you're talking about here. The plane DID NOT PERFORM A 360 ANYWHERE NEAR THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH. The plane performed a 270 degree decending turn, which spanned almost 3 minutes, to decend to 2,000 feet from 9,000 feet. At this point he continued a decent targeted at the Pentagon (over hundreds of witnesses in cars, on the ground, in buildings, and ahead of Lt Col Steve O'Brien and his flight crew in a C-130 who tried to follow but couldn't keep up, etc.).
And the bright white flash IS very different to the flash that happened when WTC crashes occur. [edit on 8/7/05 by Hunting Veritas] [edit on 8/7/05 by Hunting Veritas]"Very different" based on what? Some conjecture from a conspiracy site? Of course the initial explosion is going to be different, the explosion from the aircraft impact on the Pentagon took place against the wall, the explosions from the aircraft impacts at the WTC took place INSIDE the WTC after they penetrated the building. How can you compare the two and expect to arrive at any logical conclusion other than: "Some planes crashed into buildings"? And besides, when you look at both the 2nd WTC impact and the Pentagon impact frame, what do you know... both are a yellow fireball followed by a red and black sooty fireball.