9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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ULTIMA.....I really thought you'd wish to discuss and learn as a normal adult would. What I have (and I grow weary of repeating myself) is a study published by the NTSB that documents, from the DFDR, the Autopilot and Navigation Equipment modes and selections, when the modes changed, when specific pilot (operator) actions were initiated. Would you care to hear about it, or are you completely close minded?

And if you would learn read post like an adult you would have seen that i have stated that i have the FDR data from Flight from the NTSB. I have 2 CDs that i received from the a FOIA request to the NTSB. Their are questions that the FDR raises. 1. The flight path is different then the official story. 2. The alitimeters being reset. 3. The alitiude of the plane at the point of impact.

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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What I am trying to tell you, ULTIMA, who is not an airline pilot with thousands of hours flying the very airplane we are discussing is----you have no knowledge base with which to interpret the data you claim to have. Rather than asking someone about it, for instance if there is something that doesn't make sense to you, you prefer to stick with your pre-formed opinion and twist everything else you that someone wishes to tell you to fit your pet 'theory'. edit....what is wrong with the formatting function here on ATS??? I'd love to be able to see the other aspects of the DFDR data, and the timeline, along with the Auto-Flight system info I have already. I could help you put it all together.... But, I noticed, again, you ignored what I wrote earlier....guess you're juggling too many threads at once, eh?? I'll remind you....a DFDR was found at the Pentagon. HOW was it faked?!? Some nerd who can ready binary and did it for the 'evil-doers' who perpetrated this alleged 'hoax'??? You completely ignore, over and over, logical reasoning....what a shame. [edit on 5/16/0808 by weedwhacker] my edit disappeared!!!! What is wrong with the formats??? [edit on 5/16/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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ULTIMA, I've seen the ground track argument before....it's been debunked. As to the altimeters....do you even understand the baro settings on alitmeters? Perhaps you do. Did you not realize that these bastards had training? I've taught hundreds of people, and every beginning student learns about altimeter settings....to adjust for local atmosperic pressure variations. Regardless....the local baro setting compared to 'standard' was about 300 feet....AND in 2001 this airplane was not RVSM certified, and pitot-static errors of 300 feet were likely possible, especially since the airplane was being operated below 10000 feet at an excessive speed....ad DFDR sampling rates may vary, you'd have to look into that too....ask the manufacturer of the Recorder. See? Lots of variables....but, like a dog with a bone, some just won't let go and see the Prime Rib right next to them.....

But i have seen the debate by a pilot that has an astounding flight experience.

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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Look.....I am growing very tired of your hit-and-run tactics.....one line posts and all. Put up, or shut up. It's that simple.

Let me give you a set of questions from another pilot. (1) Now what kind of a hijacker would bother to reset his altimeter EXACTLY at FL180? What for? He's going to crash! (2) Where did that hijacker get the field barometric pressure for Reagan International that he set on his altimeter? He didn't get it from ATC. And how did he get the CURRENT field barometric pressure (30.24) which would have been only several minutes old? (3) Why did the hijacker reset the copilots altimeter within one second of setting his and WHY? And HOW? That’s a pretty long reach! (4) How did the hijacker get so proficient in the use of the autopilot? From a book? (5) And about that final line up with the Pentagon. After the 270 degree turn descending turn. Within 1 degree? That’s absolutely amazing!

Oh and 1 question from me. Where did the hijaackers learn how to avoid the radar for as long as they did?

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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ULTIMA, I did the board a favor and didn't pull your full quote, just took notes...so I may miss a few points. I have to take your word that the altimeters were re-set to QNH exactly as the airplane descended thru FL180. It is not called 'Reagan International'.....in fact, I never, ever choke out that 'R' word.....and, if you care to listen to any ATC tapes, the controllers never say it either....(off-topic rant) From what I've seen of the Auto-Flight performance, mode changes, etc....it's possible the hi-jacker was in the right seat. Not sure why....but I can assure you, from the right seat, you can reach all three altimeter baro knobs quite easily. (I am not convinced the baro was re-set, just an observation for those that have never sat in a B757 cockpit seat.) The turn, as recorded, was done visually.....and, as I've seen these conspiracies develop, there is sometimes a blending, a confusion (intentional or not) between the DFDR track, and the TRACON Radar track info.....stuff that disagrees with the CT stance seems to be thrown out. As to the AutoPilot.....these bastards had money to spend in a simulator in order to get acclimated to the cockpit layout. They knew what a VOR is, how to tune it, how to keep the A/P engaged, but change the modes on the MCP and the EHSI to navigate back to the DC area....heck, in the case of AAL77, it's even easier!!!! Just go to the LEGS page, or RTE page, and bring it up, and EXEC, and it draws a line on the EHSI. They knew how to select and tune the VORs.....they tuned the DCA VOR (111.0) and the AML VOR (113.5) BTW....IF they were smart enough to know how to tune the VORs, dontcha think they'd know how to tune the ATIS?!?!?

Saying that over and over again doesn't make it true. Your own source says that it's not true. I don't know how else to help you.

If they had so much sim training why didn't they know how to use the radio and intercom? They thought they were talking to the passengers many times but were transmitting over the radio. Also what about them avioding the radar? [edit on 16-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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You already know that they worked the crime scene for more than five days. The source you used states that very clearly.

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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ULTIMA, they obviously didn't focus on inter-ship communications!!! There is a mic, that is mounted under the window #2, each side. they probably thought it was a PA mic. The PA can be accessed from that mic, if the audio panel is selected to PA....but unless they push that button, it transmits to the ATC frequency. The PA is usually done, by professional pilots, with the handset on the center console.....it is the 'Inter-phone'.....using the hand mic, or boom mic, through the audio panel, invites an embarrassment, as many a pilot has done!!! That is, making a long-winded PA over the ATC freq. Usually, that means, he buys averyone a beer on the layover!!

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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I know that we've been over this before but, let's try it again. Flight 77 never avoided any radar, with the exception of a few seconds before impact. The recorded radar data study clearly shows this. Flight 77 was not on air traffic control screens at Indianapolis Center for eight minutes, then it reappeared shortly before crossing into Washington Centers airspace. Indy center had poor primary coverage but American 77 appeared on other radar screens at the same time that it was not on the screens at Indy.

The source i posted and many other sources state that the FBI only worked the crime scene untill Sep. 26. I wil keep posting sources untill you and the believers will admit that point.

reply to post by Boone 870

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Good try, Boone....not sure ULTIMA will fully understand your post....will likely ignore it. What strikes me as very possible in this argument is a mis-match between Washington Center tracking data, and the TRACON data. Perhaps the seed of this silly 'conspiracy' theory, at least in the case of AAL77. Worth pursuing....

Didn't you just contridict yourself? First you state that flight 77 never avoided radar and then you state that Flight was off radar for 8 minutes. If Flight 77 was off radar for 8 minutes that means they avoided radar. [edit on 16-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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ULTIMA, ULTIMA.....you're dancing in semantics now..... A commercial jet cannot 'avoid' radar. It can drop below line-of-sight radar coverage.....it can be 'lost' for a while until another facility picks it up...assuming it's just a Primary target, once the transponder has been switched to STBY...so, NO!!! Boone did NOT contradict himself! you just don't understand...

reply to post by ULTIMA1

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No... I did not contradict myself. You just did not understand. It disappeared from the Indy screen because the primary radar they were using could not pick it up. Flight 77 was visible on other radar screens, therefore, it was on radar the entire time it was in the air with the exception of a few seconds before impact.

That's funny because the source you posted said they were going to continue to collect evidence, and they had been "working the crime scene" for two weeks prior. Those are your sources...