Im sorry cathearder but you can dispute the alleged facts, please note the following: the official version (one of many) was that the plane disintegrated within the building and was vapourised in the intense heat. If that was so how do human bodies remain identifiable in an inferno that melts steel/aluminium. What made the exit hole, according to your calculations supporting collums in front of the hole were hardly damaged so what was left of the plane to make the hole. These collums would have a deflecting effect of anything hitting them, in effect the kinectic force would be vented around the collums. Why would the alleged terrorists go through such a difficult flight procedure to hit the side of the pentagon when in reality the person piloting the plane would have dived the plane straight onto the Pentagon. Also how does a person with little training fly a modern jet several feet of the ground at 300/400mph and engage in manouvers so dangeous that they may not have even hit the building. The terrorists would not know if the Pentagon was protected by missile defences and could of been shot down so again why such a manouver. As for the evidence, evidence can be planted quite easily, it would not be the first time would it, you know like the twin towers were turned to dust but terrorist passports were found in the rubble, how convenient. AS an example I was at stonehenge in 2000 and was listening to a archeologist telling some tourists that iron age tools were found at the site and thats how they dated stonehenge. I argued with him that if you use that analogy and I placed some modern coins at the site and they were found a thousand years later future archeologists would state stonehenge was built in the year 2000 but they would be wrong, seeing isnt always believing. As I have said before your calculations have no human element to them and it appears you have tried to make what evidence is available to fit your theory. Plenty of planes have hit buildings over the years why have you not looked at those to identify similar impact effects. debris dispersal etc. why bother with computer simulations. There are stories going around that video tapes were seized by the FBI from cameras that overlooked the Pentagon, if these show a plane hitting the Pentagon why not show them to the world I mean it can hardly be material of a sensitive nature can it.

Ofcause no commercial plane hit the pentagon, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I believed it on sept. 11, but ever since I looked at the (lack of) evidence, I ofcause can see that their is no plane, the hole is too small, etc etc etc. Sincerely Cade

Thats why I subscribe to the A-3 Skywarrior theory.

I think the best thing I've seen posted on this was by AgentSmith. He said that commercial pilots would have the worry of crashing and injuring people and would be hesitant to perform the wild manuevers observed whereas the terrorists didn't have that concern. Dang wish I could find the exact quote. His last words were....The terrorists faced no such handicap. but that was right on.

I just received a reply to my FOIA request to the FAA regarding clarification of certain missing details pertaining to the Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. In brief, the reply states that the Air Traffic Organization has gathered scanned and indexed all agency 9/11 records and they anticipate completing their review within 3 months. This reply is dated May 1 2006 It will be interesting to see if the results shed any light on the true events just prior to upcoming November Congressional Elections.

It is pretty much clear: A Conspircy THEORY, is actually in action, when there are NO Evidences present - for example, a Theory is the following: You can in Theory WIN a lottery - if you buy a lottery ticket; and when you DO actually buy a lottery ticket, that Theory is no longer in action, but you are already in process of supposedly Winning the lottery, since you have already bought the ticket. So, a Conspircy THEORY ceases to exsist the moment there are EVIDENCES for it present - and there Sure are SEVERAL Evidences present in this Case, since we all have seen a bunch of those. No matter how small, even One pieces of Evidences creates a CONSPIRACY - without the word Theory. And the more Evidences Gathered, the more Probable and Possible that CONSPIRACY is. Now that we got that covered lets move on. We have watched several people Present their point of view their pieces of Evdience against the Official story, that the Boeing757 actually HIT the Pentagon (which in my Humble Opinion DID NOT!). So what happens next? We have a Bunch of People, some of them are Very Involved, who try to Counter all that Evidence against the official story, that the Boeing757 actually DID hit the Pentagon. When people DO start to Counter these Evidences present, that can only mean the following: That They Are actually OPPOSING, DISTRACTING, DISTORTING or COVERING-UP! That They Are actually try their Very Best not to know what REALLY happened. Thet They Are actually try their Best NOT to Reveal themselves. Which can only mean one thing: That they are members of Organizations which were actually Involved in this Event. That They Are actually INVOLVED in this CONSPIRACY. Mediatate on that... [edit on 13/5/06 by Souljah]

Ah yes, so what you are saying in a not so discrete fashion is anyone dumb enough to follow any avenues put forward in the official story is obviously working the Government and our enemy? So rather than actually contribute anything to the thread, you are simply having an elaborate dig at anyone that doesn't agree with you? Am I right?

Originally posted by AgentSmith Ah yes, so what you are saying in a not so discrete fashion is anyone dumb enough to follow any avenues put forward in the official story is obviously working the Government and our enemy?

Not quite - there is a Mass of people which have been repeatedly washed by the Mass Media and the US govermetn, banging in their heads words: "terrorists, boxcutters, Osama, 9-11". So they have created a public that blindly belives those "Facts" about the official 9-11 story. Then you have the people who do not belive the official story. Their Evidences presented are however, countered on each and every step - usually in this thread by the same people, which actually looks its their JOB to counter and deny. So - if it is REALLY in the interest of the American People and the Global Community to know what HAPPENED on 9-11, how come all these Conspiracies are Denied, and not at all Explored? How come, there is Answer to Every presented Evidence? And there are Holes large enough to REALLY fit a Boeing757 in the Official report.

So rather than actually contribute anything to the thread, you are simply having an elaborate dig at anyone that doesn't agree with you? Am I right?

I have already contributed by share of research, what in my opinion happened. I do not request anybody to belive it - I only request for People to examine those few pictures are read those words and THINK about themselves, not to consume blindly what has been prepared for them by the PR-O's. In my Humble Opinion the Official Story, of what happened on 9-11 to Pentagon is totally and entirely False. There is too much Evidence against it. And there are still too many questions remained opened, which have never been answered.

Hmm, can't be bothered to read back through 144 pages (well, would you?) and I'm sure it has been covered by the first reports here in the UK said that it was a car-bomb that exploded outside of the Pentagon.

Ok where to start, 1. A 757 Weighs over 200,000 thousand pounds does it look like there is 200,000 pounds of debris on the Pentagon lawn? 2. The hole in the Pentagon before its collapse was approximately 20feet by 20feet. Anyone that has ever been on or near any jetliner knows that a 757 isn't 20feet by 20 feet. More like 70 feet tall at tail tip and 150+ feet wide wing tip to wing tip. 3. Light poles 'ripped' out of the ground. Ok news flash airplanes are made of light weight materials like carbon fiber and aluminum which upon impact with anything will rip off. 4. The jet engines on the 757 are approximately the size of a small to medium car where are they? and where are the impact holes from the engines in the pentagon? 5. engines don't produce contrails inches above the ground. Contrails are produces by hot water vapor turning into ice crystals. Ice dosen't form on warm September days! 6. If a 757 flew about 20 feet over your head don't you think you'd go deaf? why did no one have hearing problems. Notice that when people at the airport are moving planes around they wear hearing protection! 7. The supposed engine parts do not match the Rolls Royce engines of a 757 the supposed APU turbine piece found does not match the APU used in a 757. Ohh and just a side note there are TWO ENGINES ON A 757!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8. Where is the luggage, seats, and body parts? 9. Why did the airplane which was comming in on the side of the Pentagon where Rumsfeld was in his office go all the way to the other side where they were doing renovations? 10. LAST AND MOST IMPORTANT WHERE ARE ALL THE VIDEO TAPES OF THE IMPACT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? OHH THATS RIGHT MINUTES AFTER THE 'IMPACT' THE FBI WHEN AND TOOK ALL THE TAPES, FROM THE GAS STATION, THE HOTEL, THE HIGHWAY CAMERAS, AND OF COURSE THE PENTAGON ISN'T RELEASING THEIRS EITHER. Why if you have nothing to hide would you not release the tapes to the people? Why instead of helping the 'victims' would you go round up tapes of the missile impact. Why instead of investigation to find out what happened would you go tell people 'you saw a 757 hit the pentagon' (FBI telling a woman in the Pentagon that was injured what she saw) Why Why Why. Don't buy the BS the government keeps feeding you and the mainstream media keeps feeding you. Look for youself, use your brain if it hasn't been damaged by all the drugs they keep pumping into you, and most of all once you find the truth spread it to everyone. They can't win if we don't let them!!!

Atention!!!!! stay tuned to CNN, tape to be relised in 1 hour, at least that's what they say.

guys wake up that wasnt a big commercial plane... no way it totally disintegrated.. check out the wreckage of that greek flight that crashed.. it lift crap all over the palce.. the grass in front wasnt even scorched.. also the nose of the plan is not hard... i can see a military weapon creating this kind of damage.. the video shows nothing.. and is a pentagon video which puts it into question - how did it get released and by whom ie government released it to make the story look good but they most likely touched it up so its not realiable anyway..

911 truth u are absolutley right and its all common sense..

the video shows the same crap we all seen lol!! guys wake up!! we are all screwed the control us like puppets... they will nuke our behinds to kingdom come if it fits there agenda... were not dealing with normal humans here.. were dealing with people possessed by evil.. war hate bad emotions.. who want blodd shed for profit. this is all by design.. dont believe it? too bad cause this is whats been going on for thousands of years.

Originally posted by enoc777 guys wake up that wasnt a big commercial plane...

Then please tell us what it was and what happened to the plane. Why would you hijack 4 planes, crash 2 into buildings, the do nothing with the other two (one of which crashed and the other people are claiming was magically transformed into a missile or something)

no way it totally disintegrated..

You obviously haven't studied plane crashes

check out the wreckage of that greek flight that crashed.. it lift crap all over the palce.. the grass in front wasnt even scorched..

No 2 plane crashes are ever alike. Comparing another plane crash to a plane crashing into the pentagon is just....ridiculous.... So that's two things I want to know 1) what happened to the plane and 2) who's bright idea was it to hijack and plane and just make it disappear when the other planes you hijacked were crashed into buildings?

WTC 7 was demolished on order by its owner, Larry Silverstein. He did say it himself! NORAD DID stand down on that day. Officials were warned not to fly on the 11th of September 2001 and these are just a few of proven ones. This alone makes any dicussion about the Pentagon being hit by whatever unnessary, except from the standpoint of curiousity. The whole problem is the way the whole case was\is handled by the government. If these were genuine terror-attacks, then there was too much malpractice,misdemeanor and why was there no investigation into this? In Switzerland, or Germany (i dont remember exactly, could have been at the border between the two) there was some time ago a plane crash, where two planes crashed into each other, due to a error by a controller. The whole thing was scrutinized into the most minute detail. Why do the media focus so soley on the pentagon attack? Why do we? - Does anyone just said 'Honeypot' ? - I think it was you, there in the last row. - Arrest him! What about Operation "Northwoods"? It has been devised which proves the mindset of a certain group of people in your government. Realize that every and all weapons which have been designed have also been used. with no exception. EDIT: I try to answer the two questions before: To answer these questions, we have to realize that he already accepted that the officially announced planes where indeed crashed and that a hijacking took place. I like the explanation from loose change 2nd edition, where it seems that one plane was rerouted and evacuated. They must before have changed transponder codes with another plane quite similiar to northwoods. remember that there was at least one training mission running detailing the exact same situation? (of crashing a plane into a building) You can have a Cessna fly thru digital airspace as a 747, if the Transponder says so. The controller wont normally notice. ok, the answer to the questions, mystyle 1) The Plane wasnt needed as it seems right now (that could change though) 2a) Diversion,Cover,Alibi and Trap for uncontrolled investigators. 2b) Maybe to rise the odds, if some of the other terrorists, if any, get cold feet you still would have two more planes onroute to the primary target. If primary target is successfully destroyed attack secondary targets, if those are destroyed, egress. 2c) Plane was used as a launch-platform for some kind of device. [edit on 16-5-2006 by electroNIX]

i think that 9/11 is funny hehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe hehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehdoug