9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

I have a question. Why is it when someone brings up a question or a problem they see that does not go along with what the media says happened or what a few people on this thread believe happened its automatically a conspiracy. All i am asking or bringing up is things i see i have a question about. I have a background in aviaton and see things i thought i would bring up and its automatically called a conspiracy theory Which in a way is very funny since i work for the government. [edit on 20-3-2006 by ULTIMA1] [edit on 20-3-2006 by ULTIMA1]

Yes i agree. Here is some information on jet engines i found to share with people who don't understand what an engine is made out of. External Source: www.ueet.nasa.gov... Fan Requirements: Fan 1. High strength. 2. Lightweight (Safety precaution in case it blows up). 3. Be able to handle a direct blow without breaking (bird strike). 4. Temperature range: ~ -50 - 100° F Fan containment 1. Absorbent. 2. Compact. 3. Preferably a layered structure. 4. Temperature range: 400 - 500° F Commonly used material: Blades - Polymer Composite or Titanium alloys. Containment - Nickel-based alloys, Polymer Composite, or Titanium alloys. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Compressor Requirements: 1. 200 to 300 hot hours. 2. Temperature range: 800 - 1200° F Disk 1. High strength. 2. Resist centrifugal stress. 3. Resist fatigue. Commonly used material: Blades - Titanium alloys (cold side). Nickel-based alloy or Titanium alloy (hotter end). Disk - Titanium alloys (cold) and Nickel-based alloy (hot). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Combustor Requirements: Combustor 1. 18,000 to 20,000 hours. 2. 9,000 hot hours. 3. Average temperature around 2,800° F. Combustor liner 1. Stresses due to thermal gradient heat. 2. Transient stresses due to takeoff and cool down situations. 3. Resist oxidation. Commonly used material: Currently - Nickel-based alloy. Future - Ceramic composite. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Turbine Requirements: 1. Rotational strength. 2. Pressure loading. 3. High temperatures. 4. Resist Creep. 5. Resist Oxidation. 6. Temperature range: 1000 - 2000° F Commonly used material: Disk - Nickel-based alloy Blades - Single crystal Nickel-based alloy with thermal barrier coating. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mixer Requirements: 1. High Temperatures. 2. Temperature range: 1000 - 1200° F Commonly used material: Nickel-based alloy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nozzle Requirements: 1. High Temperature. 2. Temperature range: 1200 - 2400° F Commonly used material: Nickel-based alloy Titanium alloy Ceramic matrix composite [edit on 20-3-2006 by ULTIMA1]

www.abovetopsecret.com... Just go watch that!!!

Might be helpful if the link to the video worked. Although its probably been mentioned in this thread a few hundred times already. [edit on 24/3/06 by Skibum]

[edit on 24/3/06 by JAK]

Is there a problem with this thread?

Yes. It's likely a coding problem with the lastpage link. It's being looked at.

video.google.com... That link should work!

I don't have time to look through 141 pages but did anyone mention that boeing 757's fuselage width is 12 ft 4 in wide? www.boeing.com... Should be able to fit in that 16 ft hole. And about the wings. Do people expect the wings of a plane to go through a building like the fuselage did? I don't think wings are that strong. Maybe they'll scratch the outside of the building a bit but they'll fall off. Especially for planes with such high aspect wings. [edit on 24-3-2006 by Taishyou]

Here is a pic showing what happenes to a aluminum airframe when it hits the ground and any obsticles. If the witnesses at the Pentagon said the plane hit the ground first then how did it make through the building ?

The skin of the wings are pretty thin and not that strong but in side that skin are wing spars which are extemely strong having to carry the weight of the engines, fuel tanks etc...Where are those? And where are the engines? Where is the damage caused by the wings and engines hitting the pentagoon. How did the plane manage to hit so low to the ground. 1. Without leaving any marks whatsoever on the lawn. 2. Without leaving huge parts of it's vertical stabiliser and wings engines etc. on the lawn. Did it all get sucked into the hole somehow? And what happened to plane once it got sucked inside the building? If it was strong enough to punch through the walls how did it manage to disapear into nothing? It wasn't fire, most of the fuel would have been burned up in the initial explosion. It's physicly imposible for an object to punch through another object, and itself become so destroyed it can't be seen. One object gives, not both. Try it yourself. Take a paper roll tube and punch it as hard as you can through a sheet of paper..what happens? Try it again but use a paper roll and a brick wall... what happens? Or a metal tube and a piece of paper or wall or whatever you like. You will not be able to destroy both objects, one will give, not both. You posibly get some damge to the impacting object, but not total destruction. Now try it with two objects of equal strength, mass, material, impact speed etc...Only then can you get equal damage to both objects.

Can we agree at this point in this thread that the picture from Cat_herder with the socalled wing impact damage : external image is a wrong interpretation of collumn damage before and after facade collapse, especially after looking at this Pentagon pre collapse picture : www.dodmedia.osd.mil... (Just open it in a second tab or window, it's a 1.6 MB high resolution picture). Here is a cropped down version for use in the small space of this board software : external image There is no damage at all on that first-row collumn you see standing to the right of those 3 cable spools in the middle of the picture. So Cat_herder's wing imprint interpretation of the past-collapse picture he used was totally wrong. He should have taken into concideration also the front row collumns damage clearly visible in the DoD pre-collapse pictures, which were online shortly after 9-11 already, I looked at them for weeks and weeks in 2002. In his defence, I must admit that ALL of us up till now also haven't done that. We are just as guilty of overseeing those important details. The more I look at this last particular picture,nr. 03886, the more confused I become. How could all this contradicting damage be inflicted by a 757 or similar airplane? First, I do agree with lots of members here that the entry hole could eventually be fitted with the round curvature of the passengers cabine of a big airplane, especially when you see the small curve in the broken limestone at the right top side of the entry hole. But then I see the perfectly horizontal second floor concrete slab at the top of the entry hole in the other DoD pictures, like in 03880 , (the next picture is a cropped down one, open the original highres for better details) : external image and then I ask myself how the limestone has been broken off from that floorslab front, in a perfectly straight and horizontal fashion. And I don't see any imprint of the tail section impact, anywhere near that entry hole, above or beside it. You will also notice that strange bungling piece of concrete (or whatever else) in the middle of the entry hole in picture 03880. In picture 03881 it seems clear that this is a collumn : external image If that is the remnant of a collumn, then the 757 entry hole theory even becomes more unreal. Can you believe, that such a collumn could have kept standing after the whole length of a 757 cabine plus underlaying fuselage beams and luggage compartment and its tail piece has passed through, when impact was at a 757 engines topspeed. Picture 03879 shows the best image of the entry hole and the collumn damage to the right of it : external image It is clear to see that besides the whole reinforced wall area, also a substantial part of the concrete floor slab in the entry hole has been slammed into oblivion. That is the floorslab inbetween the ground floor and the first floor. But where does the right wing fit in the damage pattern, when you look at the three broken and bended outwards collumns at ground level (or bended to the left, relying on another possible interpretation of what you will or want to see in this picture). I can't find any other pre-collapse pictures where you could conclude without doubt, that those 3 collumns bend either straight outwards, or to the left. If that is damage done by the right wing of a 757, then the jet engine hanging under that right wing must have been dragged about 3 meter under the lawn. And the cable spools would have been smashed into thousand pieces by the wing and engine. And what caused that huge dent at the first floor level, 3 windows to the right of the entry hole, if the right wing caused those broken 3 collumns at ground level? And why is the damage to the floorslab under that huge dent indicating a force impacting from above, so coming down? Jet engines from a 757 hang under the wing. And the wings hang under the passenger cabine and luggage space. If you declare that damage to the 3 groundfloor collumns to be from a 757 right wing, then that line of thought changes the whole official Pentagon story. In that case, the 757 must have impacted under a sharp angle to the ground, so it must have impacted like a divebombing plane, much steeper then told to us by the media. There are too many objects in the path of a wing plus underhanging engine which are not smashed apart. Like the generator on wheels, cable spools, fences, parked SUV's and cars in front of the walls. But why and how were those 5 lamppoles then clipped off? Something could underwrite that steep impact theory. There is a big thick concrete slab, clearly tilted out of the ground, to be seen between the 2 most left cable spools. If you open all DoD pictures 03879 up to 03903 in that second link above, you will see that slab clearer, and a lot of other details also. I still keep looking at that picture of the Tomahawk cruise missile attack on president Milosivitch's villa in Belgrado, Serbia, posted by a member here somewhere. And then compare that to DoD picture nr. 03880. (and the others) Take your pick at the bend out collumns at floor level and the still standing collumn in the entry hole. In both pictures they are identical. Both were warning signals. The Pentagon attack seems to have been an additional warning signal to part of the military top brass. Seemed to have worked. No strange deadly accidents with top brass involved anymore after 9-11. Or not? Some retired brass with too loud mouthes has been erased? You know who I mean. PS: The dense woven white fabric you can see under many windows in the DoD pictures are the Kevlar re-inforcement mats implemented in the renovated portion of the Pentagon. A few posts back I postulated that the Kevlar would be black or grey, but I was mistaken in that opinion. That Kevlar fabric was bolted and clamped to the top, sides, and bottom of the metal window frames under the glass portions. Most of it in the past-collapse DoD pictures looks undamaged by impacting debris. EDIT: changed the cropped DoD images from 665x292 into 650x428, so the dimensions are right again. [edit on 26/3/06 by LaBTop]

I think it would be better if I illustrate my point with a little drawing. First consider what angle the fuselage strikes the wall at 500mph, and what angle the wings strike the wall at 500mph. Then consider how much stress the root of the wings will have to bear in such a collision, once again considering the angle at which the wings strike the wall. Now consider which of the two outcomes is more likely? As for where all the pieces are, I can't be sure of that, but considering the force of a crash at 500mph, my guess is that they're probably all over the place. Most photos we've seen only show the small area around the crash site. Did it hit the lawn? If so, how far from the hole? It's true that usually when two objects collide only one survives. So then how would you explain the hole at the pentagon and no plane? Let's say a cylinder shaped object, be it a missile or plane or whatever, punched through the walls of the pentagon and survived. Other than fire, what else could possibly turn it into this? If it were a missile, it would dissappear by exploding its warhead, but then we'd see a much bigger hole than this one, or if it were a Tomahawk cruise missile, the whole pentagon would've been levelled. Also take a look at this plane which crashed at Pearson Airport, Toronto, where I live. It caught fire and was burned to crisp. www.ctv.ca I just want to point out that though I question some of the theories from the conspiracy theorists, I myself am not a firm believer of the official story. I do think a plane hit the pentagon, but whether it's a 757, and whether some guy put pieces of the AA markings on the lawn, I don't know. It could be a military aircraft with fake markings for all we know. btw, can someone explain the second hole to the right of the main hole in this pic? thunderbay.indymedia.org... [edit on 26-3-2006 by Taishyou] [edit on 26-3-2006 by Taishyou] [Mod Edit: Link formatting. Please review this post - Jak] [edit on 26/3/06 by JAK]

which messes up the width of this page 141. You can edit it still like this : Crash at Pearson Airport, Toronto EDIT : The "exit" hole you mention as "this" is in my opinion an entry hole instead. Blasted through and used by emergency personnel to enter that part of the building. Or anybody else with bad intentions. That "second" hole you think to see in that indymedia-link, is in fact a charred tree and it's shadow on the wall. Your drawing of the plane and wings does not include the 2 engines. These should make 2 holes, or such an imprint on the wall that it should reflect about a 3 times bigger impact than the planes passengers cabine, according to tests by Sandia (see a page back). Everybody posting in this thread should really first read the whole thread, all the 141 pages, then you understand why many contributers to this thread don't post here anymore, they got tired of repeating all their texts ad infinitum to some fresh ones hopping aboard. There is no excuse for saying that this thread is too long, so new members or readers hop in at this point, and start theorizing away, without concidering the past 140 pages of text. In that case, open another thread, or post in another smaller thread. That's wiser, and does not mess up the line of thoughts evolving in this long thread. [edit on 26/3/06 by LaBTop]

that someone could plant this broken lamppole so quickly after the impact. So please let us observe those broken lamppoles as facts and not as "plants". www.dodmedia.osd.mil... here is a cropped down image of the same JPEG : external image EDIT: for your info: All corporal Ingersoll images are numbered upwards from 03872 up till the last one, 03932. That's 60 images, in hires as .JPEG, and 60 in lowres as .JPG files. [edit on 26/3/06 by LaBTop]

What is all this crap about "Boeing yellow Paint"? Everyone uses it! I worked as an aircraft engineer in the UK and we have used Yellow Zinc Chromate primer for over 60 years! the whole world uses it! Also, I still say what happened to the wings! remember, the starboard wing must have been parallel to the wall before impact (due to the angle) and therefore cannot have folded (with 6 tons of engine!!!) and disappeared through the main hole. In every aircraft crash in history the engines have largely survived, maybe stripped off the turbine blades and outer casings, but the massive shaft and bearings will survive. A BOEING 757 DID NOT HIT THE PENTAGON!

Why do "No Plane" folks have trouble understandng that the 757 engines ARE NOT SIX TONS? BOTH ENGINES weigh 6.5 tons or so. EACH engine is 3.2 tons. Is that really so hard to understand? The wings shattered. They do that in high speed impacts like this one. www.narita-airport.or.jp... [edit on 4/1/2006 by Zaphod58]

I'm not arguing about the weight, but have you ever been inside a wing? I have!It's not aluminium foil! They don't vapourise! They will do a lot of damage and they cannot fold and go through a hole! The impact in the starboard wing will be along it's whole length, so therefore the debris and engine will be along the wall. The port wing would have hit root first (covered on an earlier post) and would have ripped off, again the debris would be visible. To suggest that everything was somehow pulled through the hole is ludicrous. To change the direction of such a mass traveling at, what? 400/450 mph is not possible.

As a matter of fact yes I have. And I didn't say they vaporized. I said they shattered, as wings tend to do in a high speed crash. Most pictures of high speed impacts, you don't see much if any wing recognizable as wing left.

I've got this question. What colors had this plane tail section ? If it was white than why it isn't visible as white on first frame from the gate camera ? Smoke is clearly visible lets say "in smoke colors" but tha plane which wasn't in the shadow is all "black" on this frame. Can someone help me with this ? [edit on 1-4-2006 by STolarZ]