Is it even possible to go to the Moon?

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posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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An excellent document I found on radiation in space travel and what was experimented with and actually used in missions from the Mercury program up to the last Apollo mission with the health and safety involved with experience and testing of concepts put into action for the astronauts.

Van Allen Belts The problem of protecting astronauts against the radiation found within the Van Allen belts was recognized before the advent of manned space flight. These two bands of trapped radiation, discovered during the Explorer I flight in 1958, consist principally of protons and high-energy electrons, a significant part of which were, at that time, debris from high-altitude tests of nuclear weapons. The simple solution to protection is to remain under the belts [below an altitude of approximately 556 km (? 300 nautical miles)] when in Earth orbit, and to traverse the belts rapidly on the way to outer space. In reality, the problem is somewhat more complex. The radiation belts vary in altitude over various parts of the Earth and are absent over the north and south magnetic poles. A particularly significant portion of the Van Allen belts is a region known as the South Atlantic anomaly (figure 1). Over the South Atlantic region, the geomagnetic field draws particles closer to the Earth than in other regions of the globe. The orbit inclination of a spacecraft determines the number of passes made per day through this region and, thus, the radiation dose. Particles within the Van Allen belts, in spiraling around the Earth’s magnetic lines of force, display directionality. This directionality varies continuously in angular relationship to the trajectory of the spacecraft. Therefore, dosimetry instrumentation for use in the Van Allen belts had relatively omnidirectional radiation sensors so that the radiation flux would be measured accurately. The Van Allen belt dosimeter (figure 2) was designed specifically for Apollo dosimetry within these radiation belts. Radiation doses measured during Apollo were significantly lower than the yearly average of 5 rem
  • set by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission for workers who use radioactive materials in factories and institutions across the United States. Thus, radiation was not an operational problem during the Apollo Program. Doses received by the crewmen of Apollo missions 7 through 17 were small because no major solar-particle events occurred during those missions. One small event was detected by a radiation sensor outside the Apollo 12 spacecraft, but no increase in radiation dose to the crewmen inside the spacecraft was detected.


  • source: lsda.jsc.nasa.gov...

    CHAPTER 4
    THE APOLLO 17 POCKET MOUSE EXPERIMENT (BIOCORE)



  • Introduction Travel outside the protective atmosphere of Earth can expose a spacecraft and its occupants to potentially dangerous regions of radiation. Missions conducted to date, including those of Apollo, have been fortunate since radiation doses received by astronauts have been low and of no clinical significance. However, as space missions increase in duration and move beyond the moon, the danger from radiation will become more serious.


    And this may be taken wrong by my reading but does this have any effect on radiation in space in regards to lunar travels?

    www.lanl.gov...


    seems like the radiation theory is serious but overblown, IMO.
    edit on 12-1-2012 by dcmb1409 because: (no reason given)




  • posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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    reply to post by DJW001
     





    If we suddenly needed to dispatch a manned craft to the Moon to check out some amazing anomaly, the governments of the world could cobble something together and have a team out there in about a week.

    Way too optimistic.
    Launch prep would take longer than a week. Never mind making different hardware compatible with each other. Hardware is not plug and play. Each is designed for a specific mission. I wish we did have SUV type hardware but we don't and I doubt any engineer wants to go that route.
    Spacex wants to go that direction but look how long it's taking.
    What about training men to understand the hardware not just operate it. You can't even begin to train until you know the hardware works together.



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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    Originally posted by DJW001
    reply to post by sweetnlow
     



    I'm sure we have been to the moon, i'm sure they have craft that can fly to the moon in less than a couple days if not even faster, what we have gotten to see with the shuttle is old technology and before that thing was ever launched they already had the next generation after next generation that wasn't ever to be seen, its all smoke and mirrors.


    Do you have any actual evidence for this?


    Can you provide proof otherwise?



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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    reply to post by samkent
     



    Way too optimistic.
    Launch prep would take longer than a week. Never mind making different hardware compatible with each other. Hardware is not plug and play. Each is designed for a specific mission. I wish we did have SUV type hardware but we don't and I doubt any engineer wants to go that route.
    Spacex wants to go that direction but look how long it's taking.
    What about training men to understand the hardware not just operate it. You can't even begin to train until you know the hardware works together.


    I'm envisioning a Martin Caiden style "hard" science fiction scenario. A lunar orbiter has spotted lights on the Moon in what can only be an artificial pattern. Fortunately, there happens to be a Soyuz all prepped for a run to the ISS, and an Ariane or Atlas V ready for a deep space mission. The Ariane's payload is replaced by a docking port, so that the Soyuz can rendezvous with it and use it for an "eyes out" boost the way Gemini used the Agena. Of course, the Russian commander has a heart condition he has been hiding in order to complete his final mission before retirement, and...



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:08 PM
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    reply to post by sweetnlow
     



    Can you provide proof otherwise?


    Can you prove there are no leprechauns in my garden?



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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    Originally posted by SavedOne
    I think I know where you are going, which is to say if we have the technology now, then when did we obtain it? 10 years ago? 20? 40? And it's a valid point, we didn't develop it yesterday.


    Good point, but turn your thinking around.




    In 1930 he [Von Braun] attended the Technical University of Berlin, where he joined the Verein für Raumschiffahrt (VfR, the "Spaceflight Society") and assisted Willy Ley in his liquid-fueled rocket motor tests in conjunction with Hermann Oberth.


    Perhaps it's better to ask why, if it all started circa 1930, did it take 39 years to reach the moon!

    Of course astonauts went to the moon. The technology isn't even all that fancy, by todays standards. Give me $150 billion and I'll put humans on the moon in 39 years, no problem. And so could several hundred million other people alive today.


    edit on 12-1-2012 by BagBing because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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    reply to post by DJW001
     


    Totally possible in the 1960-70's.

    Politically & fiscally, now, almost impossible.

    Do you think the human race may have lost the will to live?



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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    Originally posted by ColAngus
    But I'm always surprised that more focus isn't spent on "Can we get back?" I would have thought more Hoaxers would latch on to that one.


    And just to clarify, I didn't mean can we get back to the moon.

    I meant can we get back to Earth once we've landed there. That part always fascinated me for some reason.



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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    Of course we can send a machine to the moon! We have sent machines all over the place. Can we send humans to the moon? Mmmmm? Everybody talks about VAB but has anyone been willing to take part in a public experiment and show it's possible?

    Glass box + 2 Humans + Radiation + Increase Radiation over a period of two weeks to levels associatied with VAB = Bobs your uncle! Fried ill looking humans!! Any takers?
    edit on 12-1-2012 by CaptainBeno because: Too early.......need coffee



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:50 PM
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    reply to post by CaptainBeno
     



    Of course we can send a machine to the moon! We have sent machines all over the place. Can we send humans to the moon? Mmmmm? Everybody talks about VAB but has anyone been willing to take part in a public experiment and show it's possible?

    Glass box + 2 Humans + Radiation + Increase Radiation over a period of two weeks to levels associatied with VAB = Bobs your uncle! Fried ill looking humans!! Any takers?


    Finally! So exactly how much radiation would astronauts be exposed to during a two week trip to the Moon?



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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    Originally posted by CaptainBeno
    Of course we can send a machine to the moon! We have sent machines all over the place. Can we send humans to the moon? Mmmmm? Everybody talks about VAB but has anyone been willing to take part in a public experiment and show it's possible?

    Glass box + 2 Humans + Radiation + Increase Radiation over a period of two weeks to levels associatied with VAB = Bobs your uncle! Fried ill looking humans!! Any takers?
    edit on 12-1-2012 by CaptainBeno because: Too early.......need coffee


    Isn't/wasn't MIR outside the radiation belts.

    Some cosmonauts stayed up there for months at a time (of course they didn't last too long when the got back, but you can't have everything).

    I would think that would prove the survivability of a few weeks in space.



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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    reply to post by DJW001
     


    Not sure if that is a question for me? My Answer....Don't know, but I'm sure we can administer the correct dose from various studies + a little bit more just for good measure (you never know do you??)

    Ouchie!



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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    reply to post by CaptainBeno
     



    Increase Radiation over a period of two weeks to levels associatied with VAB


    Irrelevant.

    Transit time through the VABs is NOT "two weeks". For other exposures outside the VABs, it is normal cosmic radiation, barring any specific Solar events that happened to come towards the Earth/Moon direction.

    The spacecraft itself can be rotated, then, to provide shielding for those events. Using the mass of the ship itself, for maximum protection.

    For VERY longer term spaceflight, outside the Earth's magnetic field, then there are potential problems to surmount. Months, talking here.

    For any permanent Lunar colonies on the surface, the regolith itself is quite an effective protective barrier, and of course, is already there, so does not need to part of any "payload" carried.



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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    Originally posted by DJW001
    Finally! So exactly how much radiation would astronauts be exposed to during a two week trip to the Moon?


    Not a lot...



    The Apollo astronauts traveled through the Van Allen radiation belts on the way to the Moon; however, exposure was minimized by following a trajectory along the edge of the belts that avoided the strongest areas of radiation. The total radiation exposure to astronauts was estimated to be much less than the 5 rem set by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission for people who work with radioactivity.





    The National Council on Radiation Protection (NCRP) says that the average resident of the U.S. receives about 360 mrem every year from background sources. This comes from outer space, radioactive materials in the earth, and small amounts of radioactive material in most foods we consume.

    In fact, you receive about 2 mrem per year from sleeping next to someone! This is because all of us have very small amounts of naturally occurring radioactive materials in our bodies.


    The amount of radiation received by the Apollo astronauts was roughly equivalent to the difference a 80 year person has experienced over their lifetime compared to an 70 year old. Not exactly fatal...




    Source
    Source


    edit on 12-1-2012 by BagBing because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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    reply to post by chr0naut
     



    Some cosmonauts stayed up there for months at a time (of course they didn't last too long when the got back, but you can't have everything).


    Gemini 11 spent about 2 1/2 hours in the Van Allen belts.

    www.astronautix.com...



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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    reply to post by CaptainBeno
     



    Not sure if that is a question for me? My Answer....Don't know, but I'm sure we can administer the correct dose from various studies + a little bit more just for good measure (you never know do you??)

    Ouchie!


    So if you don't know, why are you of the opinion that it would result in "Fried ill looking humans?"



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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    Originally posted by chr0naut
    Isn't/wasn't MIR outside the radiation belts.

    Some cosmonauts stayed up there for months at a time (of course they didn't last too long when the got back, but you can't have everything).

    I would think that would prove the survivability of a few weeks in space.


    In the interest of precision, I need to point out that there was no exceptionally high death rate among the cosmonauts who clocked a lot of time up there on Mir. You can look it up on Wikipedia.



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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    reply to post by DJW001
     


    All evidence would point towards that.

    So many different opinions on this site about VAB's.
    I even saw a doco on space flight to Mars, it said problem was getting through VAB's......and that was from NASA?? Um slip up??

    I'm gonna try taking the door off the microwave and sticking my hand in?? Worth a go?




    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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    I'm also of the understanding that MIR space station was in low earth orbit and nowhere near VAB?



    posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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    reply to post by CaptainBeno
     



    So many different opinions on this site about VAB's.


    There are all kinds of differences of opinion about everything on this site. The question is, what are the actual facts?


    I even saw a doco on space flight to Mars, it said problem was getting through VAB's......and that was from NASA?? Um slip up??


    I suspect you may have mis-remembered. The principle radiation hazard on a trip to Mars is the extremely long period of time the craft would spend outside the Van Allen belts. Passing through them would only take a couple of hours and are not of much concern.





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