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Red UFO hovers over Canadian Military Base - April 1959.

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posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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Great post OP!

MainLineThis, every one cares about this but you.

Just because UFO reports are old doesn't mean they are less reliable. In fact, it makes the evidence even more convincing because we had much less technology back then. To have and object hover in one place and then suddenly shoot off faster then the speed of sound is too hard for us to do today. Our planes can hardly hover, much less immediatly accelerate to the speed of sound and zoom off.

In your post you claim the evidence is nothing. You post like this a lot. You claim that the evidence presented is worthless, but you never actually explain it.

So try. Explain this one case.

You say this is horrible evidence. Now tell us why. It's easy to say evidence is not evidence and then not actually explain anything.

So, what do you think this case is?

People making things up? I don't think so, there are more then 12 witnesses. Some of them respected military officers.

Some advanced military aircraft? Nope. We didn't have the technology to hover in midair and then shoot off at the speed of sound.

If the evidence is so bad, can you please give me an explanation for it? 'Cause I haven't seen any yet. And no one else has the last 53 years either.




posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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Hi, "good old UFO cases" watchers !

WOW ! I did not know about the "base" case.
I DID know about "Montreal, Place Bonaventure" mystery !

www.dailymotion.com/video/x5e09e_l-ovni-de-montreal-en-1990_tech
( french video )

archives.cbc.ca...
( Canadian broadcasting c. . .corp? )

www.placebonaventure.com/
( The spot )

Here they are, all of them:
us2.ixquick.com...

I DO live and fly near THE "base", and near the CYHU airport. B-)

Thanks for the good memories ! !

Blue skies.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 04:40 AM
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reply to post by MainLineThis
 


Mainlinethis, sorry you don't find the discussion of a 'genuine' UFO being sighted by multiple witnesses over one of Canada’s key air defence establishments interesting (whether it occurred in 1959 or not) -isn't that part of what this forum is about?



This forum is dedicated to the discussion of historic and contemporary events related to extraterrestrial encounters, UFO sightings, and speculation about related subjects..


Granted there's only witness testimony corroborating this case but you know as well as I do that many other UFO incidents also involve radar confirmation, electromagnetic interference effects, ground trace evidence, government documents etc.. so don't you think it could be seen as a little hysterical (or at least melodramatic) to be using terms such as 'laughable' and 'useless'?

I also noticed it's not the first time you've gone on a rant about subjective matters whilst blatantly ignoring subject matter - could I ask you why you never seem to address the actual UFO incidents themselves?





reply to post by dilly1
 


Dilly1, thanks for the reply and I think the UFO definition below is the best one I've read, as for the agenda of the thread, well 'discussion is always a good reason - there may be other reports which occurred on the same day in the same area or other members may have further information to substantiate the existing case, the point is you never know - this thread is a good example, at the beginning it was just dealing with one incident over an USAF base in 1968, now it turns out there exists other witnesses and government documents detailing incidents there in 1966 and 1967 as well.




UFO:

"The reported perception of an object or light seen in the sky or upon the land the appearance, trajectory, and general dynamic and luminescent behavior of which do not suggest a logical, conventional explanation and which is not only mystifying to the original percipients but remains unidentified after close scrutiny of all available evidence by persons who are technically capable of making a common sense identification, if one is possible."

The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry by J. Allen Hynek, Henry Regnery, Chicago, 1972, p. 10.

Link


Cheers.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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Originally posted by gortex
A report from 1959 this time in Redmond, Oregon and made by Redmond Police officer Robert Dickerson


Dickerson saw a strange bright light [white ball­ shaped?] rapidly descending north of the airport then stopped and hovered several hundred [200?] feet above ground for several mins where it lit up the juniper trees below. He drove toward it on the Prineville Hwy then turned toward the airport, when the object turned orange [reddish-orange?] and moved rapidly to [dive and hover?] about 10 miles NE of the airport at about 3,000 ft


which in turn reported it to Hamilton AFB, Calif., which scrambled 6 F-102 jets from Portland [?] to intercept UFO. FAA station observers saw object hover and emit long tongues of red, yellow and green light which extended and retracted at irregular intervals. As F-102’s approached the object from the SE [?] it turned into mushroom shape, emitted red and yellow flames from lower side and ascended rapidly, disappearing above scattered clouds at about 14,000 ft
policeufo.com...

It seems you've found another interesting case from the time of high strangeness


Gortex, thanks for the reply mate and that's certainly is another strange UFO case from the same year - perhaps yet another good reason for bringing up and re-examining these old UFO cases is to discover just how spurious, contrived or just plain ridiculous the 'official' government UFO explanations can actualy be - here's what the USAF said about the Redmond Oregon incident you mention:




After more pressure from NICAP and several legislators, however, the airforce finally announced the "true" explanation: the witnessess had seen planet Venus


USAF "force fit" debunks


Cheers.

edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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Originally posted by Thundersmurf
Thanks for bringing this one up. A lot of these old cases have some patchy evidence to back them up, but I like to hear about them anyway; it's a good reference for comparison to other sightings and encounters.



Thundersmurf, thanks for the reply and I'm sure you will have seen it before but when it comes to good comparative UFO case references, I think this thread is one of the best resources on ATS - as for the Montreal case, it looks like two government documents about the sightings were released by the Canadian Government under the Freedom of Information Act but the links at the site refuse to work..



Department of National Defence (DND)

Intelligence, Sightings of Unknown Objects

Record Group 24, Volume #17984, S-940-5, Part 1, T3291



RED UFO OVER MONTREAL, QUEBEC, APR 12/59:

101 05/05/59 Squadron Leader Wood, Air Officer Command, Air Defence Command
To: Air Force Headquarters, Chief Air Staff
Re: Red UFO over Montreal 04/12/59

102 04/26/59 Carr of Inter-Continental Aerial Research Foundation (ICARF)
To: Air Defence Command, St. Hubert, Quebec
Re: UFOs over Montreal 04/12/59


link



There are also two other free Canadian UFO E-books here but could only find the case briefly mentioned in this paragraph about the implementation of JANAP 146 on Canadian pilots shortly after the Hubert Air Force base incident:






But the bubble burst on April 12, 1959, when a red disc-like UFO was spotted over Air Defence Command Headquarters at St. Hubert Air Force Base, east of Montreal! The sighting was subsequently confirmed by military authorities. (See Chapter 6, 'UFOs and Military Installations'.) These embarrassing leaks led to further tightening of security measures in an effort to eliminate any further unauthorised disclosures.
Soon after, RCAF Group Captain L.C. Dilworth, a spokesman for the Chief of Air Staff, wrote to a NICAP member:

The RCAF has recently implemented the JANAP 146(D) procedure for the reporting of vital intelligence sightings. (UFOs included)... Needless to say, the RCAF, in concert with American Forces, is interested in all such reports, and evaluation is done on a systematic basis. While the outcome of individual evaluations is not made public, you may rest assured that any threat to the security of Canada or the United States will be reflected in appropriate military plans.(19)

Under the JANAP 146(D) provisions, any person (military or civilian) reporting a UFO sighting through official channels is subject to prosecution under the Canada Official] Secrets Act of 1939 if convicted of unauthorised transmission or disclosure of such a sighting.(20) As a deterrent, JANAP 146(D) and its successor, JANAP 146(E) (amended it March 1966), were effective in preventing additional UFO leaks.


link


Cheers.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by NightFlight
reply to post by karl 12
 


Thanks, Karl, The fifties and sixties were very tense years between the USSR and Canada and the US. I was born in '54 and remember in the late fifties bombers flying twenty four hours a day on defensive patrol to react against a USSR nuclear threat. All governments were on edge. More than once did UFO's set off alarms on the radar and DEWS (Distant Early Warning System) line in Alaska and the Arctic. Thank goodness cooler minds prevailed. Also participated in many "duck and cover" school drills.



Nightflight, thanks for the reply and certainly agree about the USSR nuclear threat and the UFO phenomenon, here are two interesting statements made by high ranking military officials and it looks like the subject was being taken extremely seriously at the time with reports of objects executing 'right angle turns' and 'making rings around' fighter jets sent to intercept them:




"During the 1955 Warsaw Pact exercises, a radar station in the area of Warsaw recognized two targets over the Gulf of Gdansk. The targets were moving at a speed of 2,300 km/h at an altitude of 20 thousand meters. In those days there was no aircraft with such performance. At one point it was noticed that the two objects did a 90 degrees turn, literally on the spot with no turning radius. This maneuver at such high speeds cannot be done. Most modern aircraft are unable to do so even today, and that was 50 years ago".

Colonel Ryszard Grundmanem - Head of Poland's Air Traffic, Air Force and Air Defense

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"Here we had a number of object seen coming in across the North Sea on coastal radar. It looked like a Russian mistake. Jet aircraft were scrambled. The objects were travelling at quite impossible speeds like 4-5000 mph and then came to an abrupt halt near to one of these stations not very high up. Jet aircraft picked them up on aircraft radar. The objects then simply made rings round them."

"Inevitably this led to the sort of enquiry which you would put in hand if you had any military responsibilities. Had something gone wrong with ground radar or with aircraft radar? We experienced pilots going out of their minds? Were people having fantasies? We *had* to investigate cases of that kind. Over the years - although there were not an enormous number of such cases - there were a sufficient number to persuade me, and a number of air staff friends with whom I had to work, that something was going on, sporadically, in British airspace which we could not explain."

"But we did not particularly want to make public statements about that. Not for something that we had no explanation."

Ralph Noyes,Senior Official with British Air Ministry - retired as Under Secretary of State in 1977

link



As for the RCAF base Hubert sightings, depending on the correct date (12th or 13th) , it also looks like there was another interesting UFO incident not 700 miles away on the same day in Wisconsin:



Highly Maneuverable Lights Tracked / Fighter Scrambled April 13, 1959

Antigo & Madison, Wisconsin


At 7:20 p.m. local time, 25-30 red and green lights above a bright yellow light were observed visually and were tracked on a AN/FPS-20 Radar. The lights moved in an erratic manner and were highly maneuverable, seemingly picking up to very high speeds. A fighter plane of the 327th Fighter Group was scrambled and went to 46,000 feet. When the pilot returned to base the objects were still in the area. The length of the observation was around two hours.


NICAP Chronologies -1959

Footnote Document Viewer


Cheers.




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