Why call him god?

Originally posted by Seektruthalways1

I hope yoyour not serious. Did you read the Scripture before you made your post? Do you not know our English bible is a translation from the origninal? Did you know that things were 'taken out' and replaced with to keep people deceived? The original Scriptures have His Name written, our English translators decided not to include it.

Why is your God so small that he can only have one name?

There is only one God and if you believe in only one God than it is the same God. What God is saying is worship the one God that cannot be seen. Do not try to make an image out of something and worship that image.

The whole bible is the story of one man, Jesus. Don’t you see we were so desperate for an image that we could understand that he sent his son, giving his son authority over all creation so that we may have the image that we so desperately wanted? We have a Lord that we can believe in and that can save us if we believe in him and follow his way.

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

What is so hard to understand? The bible clearly says that all things were created for the son by the son. What more is there to understand? Jesus is our lord, we are to follow him and pray in his name.

Hebrews 1:1-4
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Jesus considers himself equal to God in every aspect pertaining to the creation.

John 5:16-23
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Why are we still debating this? The father and son are equal. You simply cannot worship one without worshiping the other.

reply to post by faceoff85


LOL like your answer, evolution hehe.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Jesus considers himself equal to God in every aspect pertaining to the creation.

John 5:16-23
16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Why are we still debating this? The father and son are equal. You simply cannot worship one without worshiping the other.

edit on 12-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

Thats a pretty bold statement.... here's a scripture to prove you wrong. JEsus knows the hierarchy and he is not at the top of it....

John 14:28

New King James Version (NKJV)

28 You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said,[a] ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.

reply to post by faceoff85


If you are correct what does this mean? And can you say this and believe it in your heart? I can.

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

reply to post by charles1952
Charles, you can always put a smile on my face and overly-inflated opinions of myself in my head. It's good for a laugh, and I certainly do appreciate your kindness.

I fully accept the pronounciation of Yahweh, partially because of the scholarship behind it and its wide acceptance, but also because I don't know enough to believe that it's vital.

Surely, he sees my heart and knows I am addressing Him. My own prayers are usually either to "God" or "Father" depending on lots of different things. I figure I can get away with "Father" because of Jesus' example.

I somewhat feel the same way about the name myself - we are all His children, so as long as we act in truth and sincerity to the best of our abilities, he understands us absolutely and will bear with our fumblings one way or the other on this and other matters as we come to know Him, regardless (as far as I can figure, anyway).

And I'll admit, I also love calling Him simply Father at times since it seems more personal.

I just had a thought, and obviously haven't researched it. Remember "...the gates of Hell shal not prevail against it?" My understanding is that "the gates of hell" was a way of saying "the power of Hell." Could the same analogy be applied to "the name of God?" Might it be a way of saying "the _______of God?" I'm not sure of the precise word I would put in the blank (maybe "presence?"), but I think it's worth a little more thought.

I would honestly have to look further into this section myself to give anything solid on it. I believe the actual word used for 'hell' here is hades, which is the greek/NT equivalent of sheol in hebrew - "the grave". I believe Christ is actually telling Peter and the apostles that death and the grave will have no power over the church, and/or that it will never fade away.

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding the analogy regarding the 'blank' of God - are you talking about 'name' possibly better referring to something else? I can definitely agree with that, if so - once again referring back to EliYah, he has a lot of material discussing 'the name' of something as referring to its authority and strength, and so on. If I'm going off on the wrong track here, please clarify and I'll provide my thoughts. Thanks in advance, and I'd like to say I really enjoy speaking with you, Charles.

Take care.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by faceoff85

 

If you are correct what does this mean? And can you say this and believe it in your heart? I can.

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

It essentially means that Jesus is gods firstborn son and in that light does not stand on equal footing. Jesus received the most prominent place in heaven at YHWH's right hand though.
However when speaking of the importance of Jesus Christ I can wholeheartedly say that nobody will receive anything from our father but through his son and our messiah/mediator Jesus Christ. Jesus plays the crucial role of our savior. through his sacrifice have we been enabled to be forgiven for our sins for without the sacrifice could we never have earned forgiveness...

In a nutshell

reply to post by Praetorius


Dear Praetorius,

I'm delighted to know I bring a smile. And with the world intent on tearing us down and remaking us into soulless, materialistic creatures, we all need a little support now and then.

We are of one mind on the subject of "Father."

Now, on this "gates of Hell" business. I knew I should have put more thought into it. I think what I was trying to say was that "the gates of" was a common expression meaning "the power of," or perhaps "the military force of" a city, or country. Perhaps its similar to calling the defensive sytems of a computer it's "firewall."

What I'm wondering is if "the name of God" is like "the gates of" or "firewall," in that "the name of God" really means something else. I'm not sure what, but maybe it means "the presence of God." So that when you call on the name of God, you actually mean you want to be in His presence. Or maybe, "the name of God" means "the Spirit of God." Calling on the Spirit of God? I suppose it's possible.

As long as I'm rambling, I might as well keep on. I'm wondering if "the name of God" is a metaphor. Honestly, forgive me if I drift into blasphemy (I'll apologize to God later) but calling on the name of God literally, sometimes strikes me as similar to reciting a magic formula. By calling the name of God, X, Y, and Z happens. It seems a little mechanical.

You know, I probably shouldn't have written that last paragraph, but I'll rely on your mercy and understanding of my many shortcomings to temper your blast.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Wow this thread is going to make the Israel/Jew haters go absolutely ballistic.

I love it!!!

This is a weird fantasy you made up to justify your own hatred and love of judging other people.
There are no "Israel/Jew haters" on this forum.

Its because no one knows his name.Yahweh is the name of Satan's right hand man,not god.

Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by Akragon

 

I dare claim that there are NO dicrepanties in the bible.... Throw me a bone and i'll try to amuse you

Heres your bone my friend... feel free to pick at it...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This topic seems to have come up in alot of threads just lately.

God does have a name the Hebrew Tetragrammaton YHWH = Jehovah - or if you prefer to pronouce Yahweh.

It translates as "the one who causes to become" ie the idea of "the Creator" but it goes a bit further that just Creator meaning a being that is flexible enough to cause something to become by whatever means necessary.

The shortened version is Jah, which people sing within Hallelujah, which means "Praise Jah" or "Praise Jehovah"

El or Elohim is just a Title for Lord or God. The name YHWH appears over 6,000 times in the original canon of the Holy Scriptures.

Many more modern translations including the King James Version removed the name of God - and everywhere you see LORD in capitals, is where YHWH used to be in the original text.

The name Jesus means "salvation belongs to Jehovah" and he stated that his role was to make his father's name manifest ie YHWH while he was hear on earth -

John 17:6-8 “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative. . "

It has been a clever device of Satanic occult forces to try & hide & confuse the name of God - Jehovah so that it became lost in a myriad of Babylonish confusion that became adopted as a form of Christianity that would have been entirely alien to Jesus disciples and first century Christians.

Interesting also to note that a fair few Bibles are now putting back the name of God Jehovah in the text where it originally was. We know it was there because of old copies of the Bible and other sources, clay tablets, the Dead Sea Scrolls that also mention the Hebrew name of God.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Why are we still debating this? The father and son are equal. You simply cannot worship one without worshiping the other.

Not wishing to start an argument and would not want to disrespect anyone else's opinions but I can't agree with this statement.

Surely your statement is entirely at odds with lots of scriptures such as

Philippians 2:5-7 "Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men"

In other words even at a moment of mental madness Jesus, although a heavenly being created in the same form as his father would never proclaim to be equal to his father.

reply to post by JB1234

Many more modern translations including the King James Version removed the name of God - and everywhere you see LORD in capitals, is where YHWH used to be in the original text.

No, YHWH was not "removed".
The King James copied the usage in the Greek Old Testament of, The Lord.

The name Jesus means "salvation belongs to Jehovah" and he stated that his role was to make his father's name manifest ie YHWH while he was hear on earth -

Or it means YHWH Saving.
Jesus became YHWH, as the I Am, Manifesting the character of God.

In other words even at a moment of mental madness Jesus, although a heavenly being created in the same form as his father would never proclaim to be equal to his father.

Jesus became the "Name of God".

Interesting also to note that a fair few Bibles are now putting back the name of God Jehovah in the text where it originally was. We know it was there because of old copies of the Bible and other sources, clay tablets, the Dead Sea Scrolls that also mention the Hebrew name of God.

In the Old Testament, where it belongs but some people are producing Bibles where they put it in the New Testament just because they feel like it.

i like what George Carlin called "god".

"the invisible man living in the sky"

reply to post by faceoff85


yeah, of corse

reply to post by jmdewey60


You are entitled to your own beleifs and opinions but after alot of study my conclusion is that Jesus and Jehovah YHWH are completely seperate beings. Jesus never once claimed to be Almighty God.

The Jewish leaders brought in a man made belief originally that the Holy Name of God YHWH should not be uttered. But then as Jesus exposed they were polluting Hebrew teaching with the "doctrines of men"

The waters became mudded when Christendom adopted a pagan Babylonish Trinity which heralded ALL the way back to the Sumerian characters Nimrod, Semiramis & Tammuz.

Jesus was God's son - simple and he represented his Father Jehovah whilst he was on the Earth and to preach to mankind about the coming Kingdom and lay down his life on behalf of all mankind..... Just as John 17:6-8 states -

“I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative. . "

Here is the Link to the new, Divine Name KJV of the Bible which has put back God's name, JEHOVAH - which appeared in the original Bible texts 6,972 times.

reply to post by JB1234

Jesus and Jehovah YHWH are completely seperate beings.

The I Am is a title held by an angel Moses met at Sinai.
Jesus took upon himself that title, and is not the same individual as that angel.

The waters became mudded when Christendom adopted a pagan Babylonish Trinity which heralded ALL the way back to the Sumerian characters Nimrod, Semiramis & Tammuz.

I doubt that. I don't really see the similarity and I realize a lot of theories suggest that, but the fact is there is no one system that was ever standard to start with in order to be copied. If you have an infinite variety of god associations, you are bound to find one a little close but it is completely meaningless and a lot of foolishness that serves no purpose, all this sort of speculation.

reply to post by Iason321


YHWH means Yahuwah, not Yahweh. Yahweh is calling on Jupiter, and Yahweh has NOTHING to do with the Heavenly Father. Its a incorrect translation, as like Jesus, Joshua, Elijah etc.

Maybe instead of mocking me about what I said, maybe look at your conclusion you came up with that doesnt make sense in the first place.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Why would you want an image to represent the Son of the Father? Does it not say to not make any graven image of the Heavens above, earth beneath,and water under the earth? Exodus 20:4. And it says in Scripture that the Son is in the image of the invisible Alahym.

Colossians 1:12-16 KJV Restored
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible Alahym, the firstborn of every creature:
1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Those who wanted to make an image for themself needed to worship an idol. You are not using your faith to worship but your carnal eyes. Faith is not with what you see, but what is not seen. Making an image of the Messiah, shows no faith, but lack in understanding, and disobedience to commands.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Next comment, from your post.

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

You said it yourself and didnt even clue in to your own post.Read the first part again in verse 19. "the Son can do nothing of himself". Explain to me how they are the same if the son cannot do anything by himself but only by His Father's help? How in any way are they equal? Your trinity doctrine has you in delusion, no where in Scripture does it teach the Father IS the Son. It teaches the Father SENT His Son to the world, not SENT HIMSELF.

And if 'Jesus' died on the stake or cross, and he is 'the Lord God" then how is it that you are still alive?How has not the whole universe ceased to exist? Who raised 'God' from the dead? You speak of the incarnate, sounds like reincarnation to me. How can "God" die? He is eternal he cannot die, listen to how stupid that trinity doctrine sounds. Reminds me of these so called Christians coming up to people saying "Do you believe Jesus is God?Well we will know if your saved of not if you believe Jesus is God" STUPID!! IGNORANT!!

John 7:28 Then cried יחושוע (Yahuwshuwah) in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.
KJV Restored

Clearly it says the Son did not come of HIMSELF by he (His Father) who sent him. The Son was in the father like a child is in the womb of a mother, and now is separated.

This is the most common problem with Christian believers. They dont know how to rightly divide the word, and therefore are confused and delusion like it says in Isaiah 66:4, and 2 Thessalonians 2:11.

2 Timothy 2:15

2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto יחוח (Yahuwah), a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

You sir need to rightly divide the word of truth, and listening to fabrications from Pastors and Preachers and dumb down Scholars will only lead you to the lake of fire. What you need is a qualified teacher, like called2bholy, Minister Bennett. www.youtube.com...

To backtrack to your earlier comment. You have a problem with what Scripture says about one Name? I mean original Scripture not this translated mess we have called the bible. Which removed the Father's Name around 5200 times in the Old Testament alone. It says to praise His Name, Lift up His Name, magnify,glorify, esteem His Name. Why would you conclude after all the songs sung which talk about ONE singular Name. How can you not see it? Have you been clouded over by deception? I believe you have been deceived, cause you cannot accept the truth. You are not praying to the same Heavenly Father I pray to, you pray to your father the devil.

John 8:42-44
8:42 יחושוע (Yahuwshuwah) said unto them, If Alahym were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from Alahym; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

reply to post by Seektruthalways1

The Son was in the father like a child is in the womb of a mother, and now is separated.

This is an interesting concept.
Could you elaborate a bit on this?

. . . dumb down Scholars . . .

Could you give an example of one of these people you are talking about?

What you need is a qualified teacher, like called2bholy, Minister Bennett.

Seems looking at his bio, his only "qualification" is self proclaimed.