2nd Carrier Arrives Off Straits Of Hormuz

reply to post by benzanato

I guess you are right. Applying western logic to a backward religious oligarchy makes no sense on my part.
Still, one would think that the peoples of iran would rather not only live, but live a lot better lifestyle by simply following the same rules as everyone else. It isn't that big a deal really, America, England,France, China, Russia, India and pakistan all comply, all live better without unnecessary sanctions against the people, all understand the need for transparency, all are leaders of the world in their respective spheres of influence.
If the iranian people are not smart enough to understand basic fact, well then they deserve what Charles Darwin refered to as natural selection, they aren't smart or strong, so they go the way of the dumb and the weak, the bitter sweet embrace of that afterlife they all strive to reach.

Now before any of you get too offended, I do understand that at least one other country with nukes doesn't comply, cough isreal cough....... yet they continue without sanctions or any of the like, however I am still unsure as to why the worldallows it. I mean good for the goose.........

I also understand my perticular view is quite cold, but what can be said besides the facts. Fact if the iranian people didn't want their leaders to act this way they would stop it. And I don't want to hear " but their government cracks heads blah blah blah. My country not only took their land from the most powerful military on earth when they were sorely mistreated by their tyrant king they also took over the world and gave it all back for free, twice.

Americans are different then other nations, we do talk big and throw our military might around, but name any other nation that accumulated our might and didn't misuse it way worse, matter of fact I can name 35 countries right now that are way weaker and treat people way worse, so how about you stop counting all the things we dontdo perfect, and be thankful we don't act like everyone else who was in our position. We could by all rights make the world agree with us if we chose to, be thankful we are the douche bag rich guy, not the tyrants that rule most nations at all times in history.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL

The real question remains….why won’t Iran just stop their nuclear weapons program and avoid this mess?

Because they, like every other country on earth, have the right to...

Only countries like the US believe thet they are the sole ones with the right to do anything..

The US is the most arrogant country on the earth..!!

I mean seriousely, a country that creats a bill for its self that gives then the right to arrest people anywhere in the world and detain them...lol

Delusions of gradure..!!

edit on 1/12/2012 by Ironclad because: (no reason given)

That said, I have no love for the theocracy of Iran, but that doesn't make the United States the moral opposite, as it gears up for yet another war, in its current state of open decomposition, the stink of totalitarianism permeating its screeching imperialist machinery, with mounting repression and disempowerment of its own citizenry.

Aircraft carrier this, drone that, how can anybody still blindly worship this superpower of super-hypocrites?

Iran not a nuke? Fine... It's a simplistic discussion, and it forgoes addressing the real problems we as the first world power bloc are succumbing to. Let's all gather around the grand chess board and talk about the up and coming spectacle of violence. Anything to take our minds off the things that really matter, such as reshaping our society to be sustainable, just, and free from the laundry list of ailments we could have fixed eons ago if only we had applied ourselves as studiously to constructive activities as we apply ourselves to full spectrum geopolitical and cultural dominance.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
They wont last long if WW3 breaks out. Iran has home base advantage. Shooting 500 missiles at one CBG is sure to take it out. This will only happen if they do war in the strait.

USA only has the advantage if they are out in the open, then Iran has no chance.

edit on 11-1-2012 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)

Iran does not stand a chance.
Saying if the US goes into the strait Iran has the upper hand is like saying if you air drop a marine unit into enemy positions, the enemy has the upper hand.

US subs & destroyers can sit 1,000km off Iran's coast and launch cruise missiles all day and all night at Iran. And there's very little Iran can do about it.

B2 bombers can also fly sorties day and night without Iran being able to do anything about it.

US carriers don't need to get too close either. They can launch fighters, which can be refuelled in mid air from tankers taking off from nearby air bases in friendly countries.

If it comes to war, Iran is toast.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth

If Iran leaders had any sense they would come to the table as fast as possible before this reaches the point of no return.

Come to the table? Hasnt the US already said they dont want to hear what IRAN has to say?
People have to understand the people who control the US and its military are ruthless.
Period.
They are equivalent to the Empire in Stars Wars, busy crushing and double crossing planets in the galaxy.

Originally posted by reddwhite
Americans are different then other nations,

Exceptionalism....

Originally posted by reddwhite
we do talk big and throw our military might around, but name any other nation that accumulated our might and didn't misuse it way worse, matter of fact I can name 35 countries right now that are way weaker and treat people way worse, so how about you stop counting all the things we dontdo perfect, and be thankful we don't act like everyone else who was in our position. We could by all rights make the world agree with us if we chose to, be thankful we are the douche bag rich guy, not the tyrants that rule most nations at all times in history.

Well, how about if you want to be exceptionalist as a nation, then be influential by leading through the power of example, not by an example of power?

The very reason everybody is critical of the USA is because if the USA doesn't live up to its own ideals then we no longer have a powerful ideological role model around, reminding the small fries around the world not to spiral into fascism.

The role I see for the US is that of moral leader, but unfortunately it has squandered that position, due to its ongoing self-destructive tendency towards oligarchy, plutocracy, corruption, imperialism and totalitarianism.

So I put it to you: how about YOU fix YOUR government so that if WE intervene in international affairs, we will at least have some moral weight behind our actions, unlike the royal mess we find ourselves in now?

Originally posted by reddwhite
.

I also understand my perticular view is quite cold, but what can be said besides the facts. Fact if the iranian people didn't want their leaders to act this way they would stop it. And I don't want to hear " but their government cracks heads blah blah blah. My country not only took their land from the most powerful military on earth when they were sorely mistreated by their tyrant king they also took over the world and gave it all back for free, twice.

Before you start taking about Iranians, apologize for taking away their democracy!

Before you start bragging about your country helping to win WW2 or WW1, apologize for
financing it in the first place!

Originally posted by BLV12
Iran does not stand a chance.
Saying if the US goes into the strait Iran has the upper hand is like saying if you air drop a marine unit into enemy positions, the enemy has the upper hand.

US subs & destroyers can sit 1,000km off Iran's coast and launch cruise missiles all day and all night at Iran. And there's very little Iran can do about it.

B2 bombers can also fly sorties day and night without Iran being able to do anything about it.

US carriers don't need to get too close either. They can launch fighters, which can be refuelled in mid air from tankers taking off from nearby air bases in friendly countries.

If it comes to war, Iran is toast.

That's a fact. So what?

After all the jingoist chest-thumping, what's the point in stating the obvious? Since when does a nation earn respect solely by virtue of its capabilities to annihilate? Is there anyway anybody can still muster the intellectual courage to transcend this loud, obnoxious bragging and boasting long enough to see the truth: that a nation's greatness is defined by its constructive, not its destructive achievements?

Anything you just surmised about US military capabilities could apply to any empire throughout history, regardless of moral stature.

You win the war, congratulations, pat yourself on the back and stuff another hamburger in your face...

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL

USA only has the advantage if they are out in the open, then Iran has no chance.

The US has the advantage, because it does the first strike. The US is putting up their chess pieces on the table, and preparing to strike.

When, and if, they strike. They will start by striking those missile bases, so there will be no 500 missiles to fire at the carriers.

Iran is stupid, they either plan and strike first ... or give up, there is no middle ground here. Just as with Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia ... there is no middle ground.

Iran counting on China or Russia, is just being ignorant and stupid. Neither will help, because ultimately they are the allies of the US. They are all the victorers of WWII, and this is just the aftermath of WWII, still playing itself out. And Iran, and the rest of Arab states are just being stupid ...

Truly, I am amazed by bloodthirsty folks gathering around as if we're about to have a feast.

If this happens, it is regrettable, how can it be anything else?

It wouldnt surprise me at all if the US just EMP'd Iran and strolled in and mopped up regardless of what the world says !

Originally posted by snowcrash911

Originally posted by reddwhite
Americans are different then other nations,

Exceptionalism....

Originally posted by reddwhite
we do talk big and throw our military might around, but name any other nation that accumulated our might and didn't misuse it way worse, matter of fact I can name 35 countries right now that are way weaker and treat people way worse, so how about you stop counting all the things we dontdo perfect, and be thankful we don't act like everyone else who was in our position. We could by all rights make the world agree with us if we chose to, be thankful we are the douche bag rich guy, not the tyrants that rule most nations at all times in history.

Well, how about if you want to be exceptionalist as a nation, then be influential by leading through the power of example, not by an example of power?

The very reason everybody is critical of the USA is because if the USA doesn't live up to its own ideals then we no longer have a powerful ideological role model around, reminding the small fries around the world not to spiral into fascism.

The role I see for the US is that of moral leader, but unfortunately it has squandered that position, due to its ongoing self-destructive tendency towards oligarchy, plutocracy, corruption, imperialism and totalitarianism.

So I put it to you: how about YOU fix YOUR government so that if WE intervene in international affairs, we will at least have some moral weight behind our actions, unlike the royal mess we find ourselves in now?

edit on 12-1-2012 by snowcrash911 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by BLV12

Iran does not stand a chance.
Saying if the US goes into the strait Iran has the upper hand is like saying if you air drop a marine unit into enemy positions, the enemy has the upper hand.

If it comes to war, Iran is toast.

Possibly, but they will take the US along with it.
A war with Iran gains nothing because eventually the US will have to put boots on the ground.
They wont do that, therefore all they can do is temporarily damage Iran's military at the cost of
its reputation, lives and wealth.

Secondly, what people are not seeing is that by the US attacking Iran, a country that is supplying oil with no
problem to many countries that really need it, they are actually declaring war and punishing those countries too.

With the fact that the US lost it's AAA rating can they really afford another war financially?

Originally posted by snowcrash911

Originally posted by reddwhite
Americans are different then other nations,

Exceptionalism....

Originally posted by reddwhite
we do talk big and throw our military might around, but name any other nation that accumulated our might and didn't misuse it way worse, matter of fact I can name 35 countries right now that are way weaker and treat people way worse, so how about you stop counting all the things we dontdo perfect, and be thankful we don't act like everyone else who was in our position. We could by all rights make the world agree with us if we chose to, be thankful we are the douche bag rich guy, not the tyrants that rule most nations at all times in history.

Well, how about if you want to be exceptionalist as a nation, then be influential by leading through the power of example, not by an example of power?

The very reason everybody is critical of the USA is because if the USA doesn't live up to its own ideals then we no longer have a powerful ideological role model around, reminding the small fries around the world not to spiral into fascism.

The role I see for the US is that of moral leader, but unfortunately it has squandered that position, due to its ongoing self-destructive tendency towards oligarchy, plutocracy, corruption, imperialism and totalitarianism.

So I put it to you: how about YOU fix YOUR government so that if WE intervene in international affairs, we will at least have some moral weight behind our actions, unlike the royal mess we find ourselves in now?

edit on 12-1-20 12 by snowcrash911 because: (no reason given)

Very well said sir! I for one agree with all you have said, however I do believe that America no longer strides atop the world a colossus, I believe they we are on the decline, at 9.81m/s2. Soon to join poor icarus, who foolishly flew much to high, way to close to the sun.

I guess we'll be watching Shock & Awe part 2 on CNN soon enough, before I get a draft notice a month or two later from the Canadian Army.

Originally posted by FoosM

Originally posted by reddwhite
.

I also understand my perticular view is quite cold, but what can be said besides the facts. Fact if the iranian people didn't want their leaders to act this way they would stop it. And I don't want to hear " but their government cracks heads blah blah blah. My country not only took their land from the most powerful military on earth when they were sorely mistreated by their tyrant king they also took over the world and gave it all back for free, twice.

Before you start taking about Iranians, apologize for taking away their democracy!

Before you start bragging about your country helping to win WW2 or WW1, apologize for
financing it in the first place!

Lol so let me get this right. Way back when a kings assassination caused the first war America financed it? Lol learn history we wanted nothing to do with europes war.
World war 2 was a direct result of england and france impossing war reparations on germany, against Americas objections I might add. This set the stage for a hopeles german peple finding hope in one of their own offering them not only respite from deprevity, but a chance for glory and prosperity. I also might add that once again America wanted nothing to do with taking and giving the world back again, with our blood and gold, AGAIN. If the japanese hadn't attced us at Pearl Harbor, I hate to think what might have befallen the world.

So once again, try eading some history, America has done more good in less then 250 years, than any 10 countries that span many hundreds and or thousands you want to add together.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Patriotsrevenge

 

Don't worry about the_proffesional, he wants Iran to kill americans, but what he does not realise is that conventional war Iran stand zero chance. To be honest the muslim fundementalist sympathisor gets on my tits and I'd love to get the chance to meet the traitor in person.

He tries to pretend to be patriotic and at the same time he seems to get pleasure that American blood will be spilled (judging by his previous posts in the ww3 forum)
Iran has threatened to illegally shut down an international waterway by force , cutting off a large percentage of the worlds oil supply as well as threatening the USA naval force that helps police free passage in the straits , & he thinks that Iran is doing nothing wrong . Wake up dude! they are ruled by religious nutters who want to take out non Muslim countries and are trying to become a nuclear power,@ the same time threatening to close down an international shipping lane.

Originally posted by reddwhite

If the iranian people are not smart enough to understand basic fact, well then they deserve what Charles Darwin refered to as natural selection, they aren't smart or strong, so they go the way of the dumb and the weak, the bitter sweet embrace of that afterlife they all strive to reach.

You don't know yet what Darwin can do to the U.S. via Iran and its partner China, so save us your victory dance crap for after the war.

Originally posted by MRedfield
I guess we'll be watching Shock & Awe part 2 on CNN soon enough, before I get a draft notice a month or two later from the Canadian Army.

Those shocked and awed will be the 50,000 dead U.S. sailors, their families and those who grew up with seeing the world through the dumbing eyes of Hollywood and Disney.