New Google Earth imagery for Creech AFB 5/23/2011, page 1

reply to post by gariac

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and?

new runways?...

reply to post by BadBoYeed

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The changes are so great you might as well not look at the old imagery.

Those decoy (photo target) planes are clearer now. At this time in the morning, I'm not going to try to figure out what they are. From the highway, they look like a Mig-29 or Su-27.

36°35'46.14"N 115°40'55.84"W
36°37'20.54"N 115°39'42.64"W

A reaper at
36°35'27.06"N 115°39'56.04"W

This looks like a F-15
36°35'45.38"N 115°39'36.76"W

There is an F-4 out there too.

I see yet another UAV shelter going up at
36°35'24.69"N 115°40'44.89"W

The "resort" the USAF is going to buy is at
36°34'44.35"N 115°40'6.86"W

You can see how this public space is really too close to the base. I suppose when it was the home of the Thunderbirds, nobody though the base was a target. But given the drone activity, this public space clearly has to go.

I noticed the new imagery goes down to Point Bravo. It also covers the prisons across the highway, the town of Crystal, etc.

I decided to check out the mock aircraft. Here is a shot I took in the late 90's or early 00's:
www.lazygranch.com...

Lots of thermal distortion in the shot. Here is a bird's eye view from Google Earth:
www.lazygranch.com...

Stacked with outline of the SU-27:
www.lazygranch.com...

Stacked with outline of MIG-29:
www.lazygranch.com...

Nothing is a perfect fit, but it looks more MIG-29 to me. However, we know Groom has flow the SU-27 around the range. It is a tough call given the closeness in similarity of the aircraft and the poor quality of the imagery.

I see Stonewall is updated.

reply to post by tino96

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Google is your friend. ;-) However I will cut you a break here. Creech AFB is the former Indian Springs Auxiliary AFB. Indian Springs was historically where the USAF Thunderbirds trained. They have a small "warning" area (a step less than restricted airspace) where they train. In reality, the Thunderbirds venture well out of this Warning area, going as far west as Death Valley.

When the Predator came on line, they used Indian Springs for training. Things can go wrong with drones. Very wrong, as in smash into the ground or the side of a mountain. Thus Indian Springs became the Predator playpen. Not only can they learn to fly there, but they can arm the planes and drop bombs on the range. Not every training facility has a live bombing range nearby.

Over the years, the drone mission expanded. Thus they expanded the base. It is right by route 95, so the construction was easy to observe. But a satellite image gives a better view of the floor plan.

Indian Springs was renamed to Creech AFB. (Google will have history on Creech the man.) Not only do they train drone pilots at Creech, but they also operate drones "in theater" (AKA on the foreign battlefield), which makes the facility a target for war protesters, drone protesters, and terrorists. While I have had run-ins with security at military bases while photographing aircraft, only at Creech did the roll at me code-3. And all I was doing is shooting video of the Thunderbirds. Thus far, if you stay on the other side of the highway, they don't bother photographers.

Creech is a bit too visible for doing anything too secret. Not only is it by the highway, but there is a heavily used commercial air traffic route nearby. What won't be seen from the ground will be seen from the air. I'm sure classified work goes on at Creech, but nothing as secret as at Groom Lake.

If you had to rank base "privacy", Groom Lake is #1. A close second would be the AOF at N2S2. Next up would be the the TTR.

reply to post by FosterVS

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The deal with UAS (or V if you prefer) is satellite control has a time lag. You can't get around the speed of light. The lag is so much that they can't takeoff or land via satellite. So the ground crew in theater does the launch and recovery. At some point in the flight, the control is handed off to the remote control point.

So to be clear here, there are two RF links. The "in theater" facility has line of sight control. The remote crew only has satellite control. I assume but don't know for a fact that there is no recon/weapons officer that the remote location. There has to be a pilot at the remote faciliity. At Nellis/Creech, there are two guys in the can. One to fly it and one to run the instruments/weapons. I suppose they have satellite control at the remote location too, if they need it.

I think the tall towers around Creech are for the local constrol, i.e. line of sight. That is why they have height. To talk to the bird in the sky, you don't need altitude, but rather a view of the proper spot in the sky..

Since you have done FTA, you probably know that Nellis can't see the bird that relays the signal to the middle east. So I assume there is at least one relay point.

They have some predator control stations on the east coast, namely Fort Drum. But there is no statement saying Fort Drum is running predators in the Middle East Supposedly Fort Drum only works for the CBP.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by FosterVS

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The deal with UAS (or V if you prefer) is satellite control has a time lag. You can't get around the speed of light. The lag is so much that they can't takeoff or land via satellite. So the ground crew in theater does the launch and recovery. At some point in the flight, the control is handed off to the remote control point.

So to be clear here, there are two RF links. The "in theater" facility has line of sight control. The remote crew only has satellite control. I assume but don't know for a fact that there is no recon/weapons officer that the remote location. There has to be a pilot at the remote faciliity. At Nellis/Creech, there are two guys in the can. One to fly it and one to run the instruments/weapons. I suppose they have satellite control at the remote location too, if they need it.

I think the tall towers around Creech are for the local constrol, i.e. line of sight. That is why they have height. To talk to the bird in the sky, you don't need altitude, but rather a view of the proper spot in the sky..

Since you have done FTA, you probably know that Nellis can't see the bird that relays the signal to the middle east. So I assume there is at least one relay point.

They have some predator control stations on the east coast, namely Fort Drum. But there is no statement saying Fort Drum is running predators in the Middle East Supposedly Fort Drum only works for the CBP.

"Since you have done FTA" - you either have a good memory, or are spying on me?

Either from my years working for a cable TV company, or somewhere else in my experience, I recall about a one second delay in a hop from ground to geosynchronous orbit and back. And every relay would add the same, assuming their satellites are in geosynchronous orbit. Then a delay getting the video info back from the bird. I can't imagine trying to fly something where every flight control change, it takes seconds to get a response.

Then again, maybe they are using LEO satellites, or a series of them; these birds have to be autonomous to some degree, and I guess if they can control a lander on Mars remotely, a drone over the Middle East is a heck of a lot closer...

reply to post by gariac

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Ah the "Big Bang Theory" effect. ;-) I think it was Fresh Air that had the Mars Rover "drivers" interviewed. They basically program a route.

From the description of operations I've heard, the pilot sends waypoints for the plane to follow. Obviously it is more complicated than that. That is, the remote pilot needs to feed routing within acceptable parameters, watch for icing conditions, etc.

The LA Times has/had a long FOIA on their website regarding a Predator attack that went fubar. I will dig it up later and see if it has any relevant info.

This is a photo from an old Silver Flag Alpha document that accidentally photographed the one of the fake MIG-29s at Creech. The USAF pulled the photo (I think), but I found one on my hard drive.

www.lazygranch.com...

reply to post by gariac

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Nice find Gariac!

reply to post by perfectcircle777

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This probably should go in a different thread since those coordinates are in Chile. The object is 15ft across. Beyond that, who knows.

The thing with google earth is by itself it often proves to be a totally useless discovery tool. The resolution simply isn't all that good. Often you see some funny colored bit of land or boxy looking thing, and it turns out to be just some funny looking bit of land for a variety of uninteresting reasons or a rock that looks boxy due to how it is pixelated. [While most people are familiar with rocky outcroppings, often there are patches of land that are virtually a rocky outcropping if the dirt was missing. That is, there is not enough top soil to support life, so you get a funny looking patch of dirt. ]

The other problem with google earth, as other threads have proven, is the unfamiliarity of the interpreter of the area. One person's UFO is another person's microwave reflector.

Originally posted by gariac
I noticed they have some helicopters parked at the base with two blades. I'm trying to think what military helicopter only has two blades?

Go to
36°34'55.18"N 115°40'32.47"W
They are there on 6/20/2011, not on 5/23/2011, but back on 5/2/2011. On that image, the blades are parked in line with the fuselage, so it is hard to tell they are helicopters.

Judging from the slender plan view profile of them, they are more than likely AH-1W SuperCobras belonging to the USMC. (Note they could not be the AH-1Z model as that has four main rotor blades) The rotor blades are typically placed in that alignment when they are parked up and are tied down via cords to the landing skids...

USAF image of AH-1W

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