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Christianity is a religion based on love and forgiveness NOT hate and intolerance.

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posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



If we have remorse we'll likely do something again, if we have Biblical repentance (our minds change) then most likely we'll not do that thing again. There is a subtle yet profound difference between the two.

NuT,
respectfully, I don't know from where you are drawing the distinction. Remorse is repentance. Self-hatred (not hating what you did in error, but hating yourself) is completely different.

True remorse always, always steers one away from committing the same offense. It's quite separate from saying "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" and then committing the exact same offense again thinking you can just go back to confessional and say "I'm sorry" again.

Self-hatred is the internalized message that you "suck" regardless of the source of that message, or the means by which it was delivered. It leads to self-harm, like cutting; or other-harm, like murder, abuse, maltreatment....out of anger and rage and suffering.

One must have love and forgiveness for self, derived from a faith in the Divine, to feel real remorse. To be propelled to make amends to those injured out of anger...and to strive to NOT make the same error again against others.... empathy, compassion, and accountability for what we have done to hurt others. You seem to be talking about having endured "punishment" and wishing you had not committed the act for which you were punished. Remorse has nothing to do with "punishment suffered." It has to do with being genuinely sorry that you harmed the other, whether you were caught and punished, or not.

edit on 12-1-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Wild that was the way I understood remorse. And in that since you have hated the sin that you have committed to the point where you wish that you had never done it and because of that you are likely to at least try to avoid that sin in the next time.

I think that one thing that we must all understand is there is only one right answer and that is not your answer, my answer or any man’s answer. The answer comes from understanding scripture, and understanding scripture comes from within. We should always try to help one another understand scripture but we should always be content with the answer that comes from within and not let our differences separate us. We are all equal parts of the same body. The apostles, who’s understanding far surpasses ours, thought it best that we were all equals so I to hold to that conclusion.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

NuT,
respectfully, I don't know from where you are drawing the distinction.

This is a common fallacy trap people fall into who don't properly study about fallacies in translation, where some Christians do "word studies" of Greek words in the New Testament and they look at word origins and think that is what the word means. Like this word translated, repentance, could be a combination of two other Greek words, so someone looks at the words and one is, change, and the other word is, mind, so they assume the composite word means, change mind. The fallacy is exasperated when the person has already accepted another fallacy that people do not have to be actually good people to be saved, they only have to think a specific formula and then they are done, then they are eternally "saved" even if they continue to be the worst people on earth creating untold misery for others.
edit on 12-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

Sometimes in my attempt to love I guess I get a little too loving.

As in right here, where you give the victory to the ant-christ.
You feel compelled to love Satan? well you will join him in hell.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 



NuT,
respectfully, I don't know from where you are drawing the distinction. Remorse is repentance. Self-hatred (not hating what you did in error, but hating yourself) is completely different.

True remorse always, always steers one away from committing the same offense. It's quite separate from saying "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" and then committing the exact same offense again thinking you can just go back to confessional and say "I'm sorry" again.


Because without first changing one's mind about something, example I've stolen things and never thought twice about it, now I do not steal, I thinks it's wrong morally and it's a sin spiritually to God. Changed behavior is the natural result of a change of mind. Without first having a change of mind it's not repentance, it's merely behavior modification.

Is that more clear?



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by wildtimes
 

NuT,
respectfully, I don't know from where you are drawing the distinction.

This is a common fallacy trap people fall into who don't properly study about fallacies in translation, where some Christians do "word studies" of Greek words in the New Testament and they look at word origins and think that is what the word means. Like this word translated, repentance, could be a combination of two other Greek words, so someone looks at the words and one is, change, and the other word is, mind, so they assume the composite word means, change mind. The fallacy is exasperated when the person has already accepted another fallacy that people do not have to be actually good people to be saved, they only have to think a specific formula and then they are done, then they are eternally "saved" even if they continue to be the worst people on earth creating untold misery for others.


What are you smoking? No one said it's permissible to sin freely. lol True repentance is changing one's mind. What once we didn't have concern about as a sin we now know is wrong. Change of mind always results in a permanent change of behavior. Behavior modification methods are only temporary fixes to the problem. We are to have a renewal of our minds, to now see the sin in our life, and see that our sin is repulsive to God. What we once participated in and found pleasure in doing we no longer think it's fun or righteous.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

No one said it's permissible to sin freely.

What do you mean by, permissible?
Do you mean God is displeased?
Apparently not enough to do anything about it (according your satanic philosophy of evil).



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

No one said it's permissible to sin freely.

What do you mean by, permissible?
Do you mean God is displeased?
Apparently not enough to do anything about it (according your satanic philosophy of evil).


You're talking crazy. Repent means to change your mind, that results in behavioral change. If you don't change your mind about something you've not repented! You're just modifying one's behavior, that's not a change of mind and heart. It's why it's called "behavior modification", that's not Biblical repentance.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 01:59 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Nice little diversionary pile of slogans but you did not answer my question.
Don't you think behavior is meaningless when it comes to salvation, because that would be salvation by "works"?
And is it not your contention that there is no conditions on salvation, including repentance, otherwise it is not by grace?



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Nice little diversionary pile of slogans but you did not answer my question.
Don't you think behavior is meaningless when it comes to salvation, because that would be salvation by "works"?
And is it not your contention that there is no conditions on salvation, including repentance, otherwise it is not by grace?


What diversionary pile of slogans? You're going from one rabbit trail to another. We're not even discussing salvation by works righteousness or by faith righteousness. Focus, we're discussing what real repentance is and what it is not.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Nice little diversionary pile of slogans but you did not answer my question.
Don't you think behavior is meaningless when it comes to salvation, because that would be salvation by "works"?
And is it not your contention that there is no conditions on salvation, including repentance, otherwise it is not by grace?


jmdewey I know you believe in the message of Christ so I want you to read this. Salvation comes by Grace and works, one cannot make up for the sins they have commited by works so God offers Grace. This is not a get out of jail free card. One must still pick up his cross and follow Chirst.

Believe in him, what does that mean?

This would mean to believe in what he said. What he says is anyone who listens to my words and puts them into practice.

Even the demons know who Jesus is and believe in him for he is real.

Only those that follow his commands prove that they believe in him.

For example if someone is still worried more about tomorrow than the good they can do today they don’t believe.
If one does not love their enemy than they don’t believe in him.
If one does not hate themselves (feels real remorse for what the sins they have committed), and fully submit to God and pray for a change of heart, they have not believed in him.

To receive baptism of the Holy Spirit one must truly believe and trust Jesus with everything.

Many people have been fooled by saying accept grace be water baptized and you are saved, and this may be true.

But if you truly want to receive the baptism of Christ you have to believe in him, not by just saying it, but by proving it. You must accept Grace and follow his commands.

Circumcision, Water Baptism, and saying you believe Christ was real, these are all outward signs.
It is only by picking up your cross, nailing your will to the Cross as Christ did for his father, and repenting (which literally means changing your ways), that you prove that you believe in Christ.

Jesus NEVER, NEVER, NEVER said this. Accept Grace try and be a better person but ultimately you will always be a sinner so be happy you have grace. It is the church that has said this. This is false doctrine that does not agree with Christ.

What Jesus does say is accept Grace and separate yourself from the things that make you unclean.

If you cannot understand these verses but you want to live free from sin, repent and follow Christ. If you do this you will receive the blessing of the baptism of Holy Spirit and you will live up to these verses. Have faith.



John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.


Listen, everyone God is calling us to the truth. A true believer of anything puts into practice those things that he believes are true. If you believe the words are of Christ are true, become a true believer by following his commands. Stop listening to men and start listening to Jesus.




John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.

Mathew 7: 21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’



Read these verses as many times as you need to so that you may not fall into the trap that the world has set for you. Simply SAYING LORD DOES NOT GUARANTEE you heaven, doing the will of the father is what gets you into heaven. WAKE UP and start listening to Jesus, he is calling you.



edit on 13-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

jmdewey I know you believe in the message of Christ so I want you to read this.

I was not making a declaration of my beliefs, I was attempting to prompt NuT to declare, or reveal his beliefs, since he has this way of working around them without ever clearly defining them.
He seems to have a strong aversion to giving unequivocal answers.
I really don't even know why he posts here when all he does is behave in a deceptive manner.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25
 

jmdewey I know you believe in the message of Christ so I want you to read this.

I was not making a declaration of my beliefs, I was attempting to prompt NuT to declare, or reveal his beliefs, since he has this way of working around them without ever clearly defining them.
He seems to have a strong aversion to giving unequivocal answers.
I really don't even know why he posts here when all he does is behave in a deceptive manner.


I appologize for not understanding but I hope everyone who reads my post understands it.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 
That's ok and sometimes I write as if I am having a private conversation, where it does not occur to me that anyone else would be reading the post.
So it is probably good that you made a statement usable in a more general way, where my statement may have been worded in a way that would not be easily understood by anyone not knowledgeable of this specific ongoing confrontation between different philosophical presentations of salvation theory.


edit on 13-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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Explain Luke 6 please if only love and forgiveness is what Christians should preach:


22 *Blessed shall you be when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

23 Be glad in that day, and rejoice: for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For according to these things did their fathers to the prophets.

26 Wo to you when men shall bless you: for according to these things did their fathers to the false prophets.


Why would you hate someone who forgives you and loves you? Because people don't like to think there is something they have to be forgiven for. They hate being told their actions are evil. Anyone who takes his faith seriously will have trouble with abortion and gay marriage, among other things. What are these people called? Ah yes, bigots. People currently stone them with words, but don't be surprised if they're stoned by other things in the future.
edit on 14-1-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 12:25 PM
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God's word is based on love, however as for Christianity, not so much, for her actions speak louder than words: The fact is almost on a daily basis you find a religious leader involved in horrific acts including molestation, rape, stealling, murder, deceit, etc.... Who is fooling who? Christianity has a violent history. A little yeast spoils the whole batch but they seem to defend themselves by saying "judge not lest ye be judged". It is obvious it is written for the sinner to not judge another sinner for he goes on to say the righteous judge all things.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by 547000
Explain Luke 6 please if only love and forgiveness is what Christians should preach:


22 *Blessed shall you be when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

23 Be glad in that day, and rejoice: for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For according to these things did their fathers to the prophets.

26 Wo to you when men shall bless you: for according to these things did their fathers to the false prophets.


If you have judged someone you certainly did not forgive them.

Why would you hate someone who forgives you and loves you? Because people don't like to think there is something they have to be forgiven for. They hate being told their actions are evil. Anyone who takes his faith seriously will have trouble with abortion and gay marriage, among other things. What are these people called? Ah yes, bigots. People currently stone them with words, but don't be surprised if they're stoned by other things in the future.
edit on 14-1-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)


You hate me because I tell you that what the church teaches is judgment, and separation that leads to hate and righteousness. You hate me because I show you the error in the way that you have followed a message that was not loving. You hate me because I take away the place of righteousness that you have given to the church and I give it back to God. You hate me and the only thing I am teaching you is how to love.

Do you understand the verse now?

What am I saying that is not loving. I say that all who live by the law of love prove that the Spirit lives in them. I say that we are expected to strive for perfection in Christ, to never stop running the race to perfection. I say that we should not take a defeatist attitude to sin, that we should overcome it. I say that we should love all mankind and never pass judgment. I say that I pray for those who don’t know Jesus, not because they are going to hell, but because they do not understand the Spirit that lives in them.

Do all live by the law of love? No. Where is Christ in their life? I do not know. What I do know is that I pray for them also. Anyone that lives according to Christ will hate everything the world does that does not love, which is sin. But what we won’t do is judge them. We will simply keep away from the ones who do not live by this law, for they have not proved to us that Christ is in them.

edit on 15-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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Lol, I do not hate. I just think you're wrong. I think you have to understand how the OT goes hand in hand with the NT.

Go ahead, start a new church if you please. I think it would appeal to modern day people who feel they can continue to sin without repentance.



posted on Jan, 15 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by 547000
Lol, I do not hate. I just think you're wrong. I think you have to understand how the OT goes hand in hand with the NT.

Go ahead, start a new church if you please. I think it would appeal to modern day people who feel they can continue to sin without repentance.


No actually if i were to create a biblical church all sin would be brought in front of the whole church, so the church could build up that person and help the repentant sinner to become free from the sin that binds them.

And I know this sounds harsh but anyone caught in a sin that refuses to repent would not be allowed to attend, until they were willing to repent and come back into the light.

You see the bible is a rough place, not a place for the weak. And the biblical church is a call to holiness not a call for acceptance. What we are to do is accept the sinner, what we are not to do is accept the sin.

A brother has an obligation to rebuke his brother, so that both may be built up. In this way we are all supporting each other to live a life worthy of the temple that we are.



posted on Jan, 16 2012 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by 547000
 

I think you have to understand how the OT goes hand in hand with the NT.

The NT borrowed themes of salvation and judgement from the OT as a common language between the preacher and the listeners, who happened to be already familiar with those and could see how the preacher was using them to make a further point, in this case, how Jesus fulfills the greater hope of mankind, not restricted to that world as described in the OT, but to the whole world.



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