Christianity is a religion based on love and forgiveness NOT hate and intolerance.

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
reply to post by Neopan100

 

Anyone with "hate and intolerance" in their heart are not religious.

No matter how much they claim it, no matter how many times they go to church and fellowship dinners.

People who hate are the true atheists.

What an ignorant statement...

What an ignorant response...

Care to elaborate?

What I am saying is an atheist that is full of love and peace (as in, the opposite of you) has more religion than a self-proclaimed "christian" that has hate in their heart, wether they like it or not.

A person who hates and feels no compassion is a TRUE atheist.

I know you have trouble reading, so if you need it, I'll explain further.

I'm nice that way.

reply to post by sacgamer25

one truly has to hate themselves, they have to hate this world (all sin and material possessions), they truly have to accept that they are worthy of hell, they have to accept that they can never free themselves from slavery to sin. (This is biblical repentance)

Even if one does all this it is Christ who decides who and when someone receives baptism of the Holy Spirit because it is only him that knows the heart of a man.

The bible says that those who are born again no longer have ANY desire to sin. So unless you believe that God can do this than you cannot receive this baptism.

sac,
I was baptized as an infant of a few days' age. I was taught the Episcopal doctrine, and that I was only by virtue of having been "baptized" a member of the accepted "flock" (if you will.)

You know that I respect and admire your thoughts and position....
but....
self hatred? There are people who, even as little kids, reject materialism and greed....they may or may not have been "baptized".....according to the Episcopal church or the Baptist or whatever faith....
but they know in their hearts what is right, and can discern it from what is wrong.

This is the issue I have with "Christianity"..There are people living good, honest, caring, altruistic lives who have never even heard of "Jesus Christ.". One cannot simply dismiss them on the grounds that they are not "baptized" or "born again."

Do you understand what I'm saying? My belief is that every one of us has the potential to understand and embrace what you refer to as "The Holy Spirit" (not "you" as in only you, but in the general sense) ...and it does not require being dunked in water and "told" that you are now a bona fide member of the community of the so-called 'saved'.

reply to post by wildtimes


Baptism doesn't save people. Baptism is what saved people do.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

one truly has to hate themselves, they have to hate this world (all sin and material possessions), they truly have to accept that they are worthy of hell, they have to accept that they can never free themselves from slavery to sin. (This is biblical repentance)

Even if one does all this it is Christ who decides who and when someone receives baptism of the Holy Spirit because it is only him that knows the heart of a man.

The bible says that those who are born again no longer have ANY desire to sin. So unless you believe that God can do this than you cannot receive this baptism.

sac,
I was baptized as an infant of a few days' age. I was taught the Episcopal doctrine, and that I was only by virtue of having been "baptized" a member of the accepted "flock" (if you will.)

You know that I respect and admire your thoughts and position....
but....
self hatred? There are people who, even as little kids, reject materialism and greed....they may or may not have been "baptized".....according to the Episcopal church or the Baptist or whatever faith....
but they know in their hearts what is right, and can discern it from what is wrong.

This is the issue I have with "Christianity"..There are people living good, honest, caring, altruistic lives who have never even heard of "Jesus Christ.". One cannot simply dismiss them on the grounds that they are not "baptized" or "born again."

Do you understand what I'm saying? My belief is that every one of us has the potential to understand and embrace what you refer to as "The Holy Spirit" (not "you" as in only you, but in the general sense

) ...and it does not require being dunked in water and "told" that you are now a bona fide member of the community of the so-called 'saved'.

edit on 11-1-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Let me explain self hatred. My six year old understands this so hopefully you will. That was not meant to sound degrading only to give you perspective on the concept. When my daughter is acting in ways that are destructive I ask her if she is listening to the love inside her. Usually after a few minutes she will be upset with herself that she allowed this bad emotion to consume her. So she has sufficiently hated herself.

Anyone can be baptized by Christ, baptism by water is not a prerequisite. There are several examples in the bible where gentiles received baptism of the Holy Spirit before being baptized by water. As a matter of fact Peter was astonished by this and realized that he could not deny baptism by water to those who Christ had already baptized with the Holy Spirit.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Let me explain self hatred. My six year old understands this so hopefully you will. That was not meant to sound degrading only to give you perspective on the concept. When my daughter is acting in ways that are destructive I ask her if she is listening to the love inside her. Usually after a few minutes she will be upset with herself that she allowed this bad emotion to consume her. So she has sufficiently hated herself.

You are describing remorse. Remorse is not "self-hatred".

sac, I want very much to continue our discussion, but right now I need to log off, relax, and then sleep.
Blessings, my friend...
wt

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Let me explain self hatred. My six year old understands this so hopefully you will. That was not meant to sound degrading only to give you perspective on the concept. When my daughter is acting in ways that are destructive I ask her if she is listening to the love inside her. Usually after a few minutes she will be upset with herself that she allowed this bad emotion to consume her. So she has sufficiently hated herself.

You are describing remorse. Remorse is not "self-hatred".

sac, I want very much to continue our discussion, but right now I need to log off, relax, and then sleep.
Blessings, my friend...
wt

Well then remorse is the self hatred that the bible speaks of. And maybe that was always the intent and we have not correctly translated.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Well then remorse is the self hatred that the bible speaks of. And maybe that was always the intent and we have not correctly translated.

Actually its more along the lines of hating your own weak and corrupted flesh, as Paul said "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". This is evident in Paul's ministries as he strains the message of denying your desires, of hating your baser desires and your own wickedness and selfish ways.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Well then remorse is the self hatred that the bible speaks of. And maybe that was always the intent and we have not correctly translated.

Actually its more along the lines of hating your own weak and corrupted flesh, as Paul said "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". This is evident in Paul's ministries as he strains the message of denying your desires, of hating your baser desires and your own wickedness and selfish ways.

Yes, I agree but I am not sure all can fully understand this without accepting the bible. I think if someone understands remorse for everything that they know they have done wrong they have understood repentance on the level of a new believer.

reply to post by arpgme


Oh I know that just bcause a man isn't 'Christian' doesn't mean he isnt a good and Godly man. I have great respect for those who choose to follow the teachings of Buddha or practice Taoisim or Hinduisim. I have a great respect and reverence for other religions and faiths and those who have the conviction of character to follow said beliefs. I follow the teaching of Jesus because they seem good and right to me. I would expect no less of anyone else except to follow their concience.

I want to share something with you that I believe by my prayer you will understand. I am about to show you a message that has been misunderstood since the founding of the modern church.

Colossians 1 24:27 24 26 This message was kept secret for centuries and generations past, but now it has been revealed to God’s people. 27 For God wanted them to know that the riches and glory of Christ are for you Gentiles, too. And this is the secret: Christ lives in you. This gives you assurance of sharing his glory.

This message in Colossians is a retelling of the Good News. You must take the letters in the New Testament in context they were written to. The very first believers and they were the words to be taught to the very first converts.

John 1:1-51 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

John 1:14 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Romans 2:14-15 14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

If Jesus was the word and became flesh, and the Gentiles showed that the requirements, the word, were on their heart, than they were born with Christ in them. Look at the following verses that provide more clarification to what I say.

1 John 4:16-18 God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

1 John 4:4-6 4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Do you understand the message to the new believers? The message was simple those who live by the law of love prove they have Christ in them.

All Christian denominations teach the exact opposite. The church says you must say that you believe in Christ to prove that you have Christ in you.

Can you see that simply getting this one thing wrong is what has caused over 40,000 denominations that follow the same book? Everyone is looking for a better version of the truth but none have found the key. The church teaches a doctrine of salvation that causes separation, and judgment.

This judgment has lead to hate, when people hate Christians, they hate Jesus, when they hate Jesus they hate God.

My brother anything that leads to judgment, hate, and superiority cannot be from Jesus. He told us not to judge, not to hate, that we are all necessary parts of the same body.

The church tells us to go tell the non believer the good news and then tells us the non believer is going to hell if he doesn’t convert. Has this loved in any way? This message has slammed the door on Christ because he has hated the message thus he has hated Christ.

Listen to what I am telling the non believer. Friend I see you live by the law of love, and because of this I know you have Christ in you. God is the source of all love and Christ is the love that is in you. Because you know love you know Christ. Let me show you a book that teaches you about this love and teaches you how to do the loving will of your father. If he does not believe I have not shut the door. If the door is shut he shuts it. I have made him my equal, there is nothing to convert to, and if he has love he has Christ.

Do you see the difference? I pray that you have the courage to reexamine the New Testament. What I say does not contradict the bible. It is the only interpretation that leads to a message of love.

There are so many other things I wish to share with you. If you believe that the end is near, and you believe that all will be fooled, then believe also that all have been fooled. Satan has only needed to twist one verse for all to be fooled.

I am asking for you to take one more leap of faith on your journey.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Well then remorse is the self hatred that the bible speaks of. And maybe that was always the intent and we have not correctly translated.

Actually its more along the lines of hating your own weak and corrupted flesh, as Paul said "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". This is evident in Paul's ministries as he strains the message of denying your desires, of hating your baser desires and your own wickedness and selfish ways.

Yes, I agree but I am not sure all can fully understand this without accepting the bible. I think if someone understands remorse for everything that they know they have done wrong they have understood repentance on the level of a new believer.

Everyone starts out a novice disciple in Christ. As you learn his ways and commands you grow in him spiritually and eventually become an apostle of Christ but you need your spiritual food which comes from his word. The more you learn the stronger you become as you mature spiritually. Many christians believe that we can no longer miracle heal which is a lie Satan the destroyer has them believing, that they are powerless. Jesus never put a time limit on what his Holy Spirit could work through us and accomplish by using us until he is removed from the world before his return. If we could but lose our fear of failure and let go and do what he commanded us, he will not let us fail in anything. Jesus said wherever 2 or 3 of us gather we can ask him to do anything and he will do it for the glory of the Father, we just need to believe him at his word the way we should have all along.

reply to post by wildtimes

Remorse is not "self-hatred".

One just paralyzes you while the other propels you forward to not be what you did not like about what you did earlier.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Well then remorse is the self hatred that the bible speaks of. And maybe that was always the intent and we have not correctly translated.

Actually its more along the lines of hating your own weak and corrupted flesh, as Paul said "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". This is evident in Paul's ministries as he strains the message of denying your desires, of hating your baser desires and your own wickedness and selfish ways.

Yes, I agree but I am not sure all can fully understand this without accepting the bible. I think if someone understands remorse for everything that they know they have done wrong they have understood repentance on the level of a new believer.

Not necessarily, Biblical repentance is the changing of one's mind. Remorse is feeling bad/sorry for what one has already done, or feeling bad/upset they were caught.If we have remorse we'll likely do something again, if we have Biblical repentance (our minds change) then most likely we'll not do that thing again. There is a subtle yet profound difference between the two.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Well then remorse is the self hatred that the bible speaks of. And maybe that was always the intent and we have not correctly translated.

Actually its more along the lines of hating your own weak and corrupted flesh, as Paul said "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". This is evident in Paul's ministries as he strains the message of denying your desires, of hating your baser desires and your own wickedness and selfish ways.

Yes, I agree but I am not sure all can fully understand this without accepting the bible. I think if someone understands remorse for everything that they know they have done wrong they have understood repentance on the level of a new believer.

Not necessarily, Biblical repentance is the changing of one's mind. Remorse is feeling bad/sorry for what one has already done, or feeling bad/upset they were caught.If we have remorse we'll likely do something again, if we have Biblical repentance (our minds change) then most likely we'll not do that thing again. There is a subtle yet profound difference between the two.

Ok you win. Sometimes in my attempt to love I guess I get a little too loving. If one only feels remorse because they were caught than they definitely have not hated themselves.

God is Love. God is UNCONDITIONAL Love. No matter what you do, you WILL be forgiven even if you do it a billion times, because that is what unconditional love is. It is loving WITHOUT conditions.

Someone with unconditional love will not send you to eternal punishment and still claim to love you. You can not be without God or without Love if it is truly unconditional.

You can fight it off but you can never get rid of it completely, and you WILL go back to God whether you like it or not because your nature is love. No matter how low on Love you are now.

Every action that you take that is NOT from Love - That is not evil - it is a lesson to be learned.

If you do unloving things, God will NOT judge you but you will judge YOURSELF because on the spiritual level you KNOW that you want to be closer and closer to God and not further away. On the spiritual level - your soul will do anything of love because it understands that it is more fully integrated with God and when you don't you become less integrated but NEVER 100%.

You are all God. Jesus wanted to teach you unconditional love.

Do not laugh at your brothers and sisters and believing and hoping that they burn forever - align yourself with the LOVE of God.

Do not call anyone evil or hateful but understand their ignorance and that they are still baby souls who are learning...

See through the eyes of God. See through unconditional LOVE (agape).

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Well then remorse is the self hatred that the bible speaks of. And maybe that was always the intent and we have not correctly translated.

Actually its more along the lines of hating your own weak and corrupted flesh, as Paul said "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak". This is evident in Paul's ministries as he strains the message of denying your desires, of hating your baser desires and your own wickedness and selfish ways.

Yes, I agree but I am not sure all can fully understand this without accepting the bible. I think if someone understands remorse for everything that they know they have done wrong they have understood repentance on the level of a new believer.

Everyone starts out a novice disciple in Christ. As you learn his ways and commands you grow in him spiritually and eventually become an apostle of Christ but you need your spiritual food which comes from his word. The more you learn the stronger you become as you mature spiritually. Many christians believe that we can no longer miracle heal which is a lie Satan the destroyer has them believing, that they are powerless. Jesus never put a time limit on what his Holy Spirit could work through us and accomplish by using us until he is removed from the world before his return. If we could but lose our fear of failure and let go and do what he commanded us, he will not let us fail in anything. Jesus said wherever 2 or 3 of us gather we can ask him to do anything and he will do it for the glory of the Father, we just need to believe him at his word the way we should have all along.

Trust me I believe every word is true. I believe in young earth and creation. I believe that I have been given many gifts of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11: “But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.”

I know I have the following gifts. Wisdom, knowledge, faith, tounges, and the interpretaion of tongues. And these are not the charismatic type, nor the ability to speak in a previously unknown foreign language.

I don’t just believe in the other gifts, I believe that someday the Sprit will give one or more to me. I do believe at some point I will be given the ability to do at least one of the following, healing, prophecy, perform miracles, or discerning sprits (which be the gift needed to cast out demons)

I think that if one does not expect to receive the gifts that they indeed will not because they have not had the faith. I expect one of the gifts I do not have to be given to me.

Maybe someday we will heal the world together.

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople

Originally posted by Ozvaldo

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople

Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by I Want To Believe

 

Nothing wrong with the "message"...

It is still a religion...

(Religion = Brainwashing tool, designed to control the masses, by sapping their time and energy from relevant information ingestion by instead rehashing psalms, singing halleluja and praying to some mock up deity, with the deceptive "reward" of the feeling to "belong to a group", which unfortunately in this case, is just a group of uninteresting sheep)

I have no leader. I have no group. I am religious.

If it is a "tool, designed to control masses", why isn't it controlling me?

Because I live for God, my children and myself. I really don't care what anyone else believes, unless they ask me to.

Because your parents were religious? Because the school you went to promoted or taught Christianity/religion, Because you have subconsciously been guided towards religion from a child?

come on, it's not rocket science.

Oh, look... Someone else who has it all figured out.

My parents were atheists. I was an atheist for more than 20 years.

I went to school in Detroit... Trust me, there is no religion in a public school, especially in Detroit.

I found it on my own. I live with it by myself. My kids can grow up and worship Satan if it makes them feel better. It's their choice.

Don't ever presume to know me.

You don't.

Uhuh, didn't see that reply coming....

reply to post by sacgamer25


All christ's believers have the ability to work miracles, including miracle healing. What holds most back is the fear of failure as they listen to Satan's lies and believe they no longer have that power. When they lose that fear and stop listening to him they will again see these things happen as they did long ago. Jesus said where 2 or more of us are gathered he would be there, and anything we ask of him he will do it for the glory of the Father. The reason why the world is forgetting he exists is because we have stopped doing our jobs and listen to the father of lies when we should be out working those miracles and doing as Jesus commanded us do boldly and without fear.

reply to post by arpgme

God is Love. God is UNCONDITIONAL Love. No matter what you do, you WILL be forgiven even if you do it a billion times, because that is what unconditional love is. It is loving WITHOUT conditions.

Someone with unconditional love will not send you to eternal punishment and still claim to love you. You can not be without God or without Love if it is truly unconditional.

You can fight it off but you can never get rid of it completely, and you WILL go back to God whether you like it or not because your nature is love. No matter how low on Love you are now.

Beautifully expressed, arpgme. Thanks for that post.
Namaste!

I hope that one day those grasping for a sense of "sense" here on ATS will see the truth as you do.
--wt

reply to post by Ozvaldo


Whatever that means.