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Christianity is a religion based on love and forgiveness NOT hate and intolerance.

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posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Before responding to your post I would appreciate it if you would expound more clearly your point. I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say 'tolerate' and 'condone sin'. The point I am trying to get across to people is that the message of Jesus is one of love rather than hate.




posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 



i believe scenario 2 is what we call righteous judgement.


I believe scenario 2 is not judgement at all... its because you did not judge him that you chose to help... because you knew it was right...

To judge someone is to form an opinion of that person... Not helping someone in need.



No, "judging" is "deciding". The problem is when people decide with the intent to condemn, or decide with the intent to exhort and encourage a fellow man. The people in the story where Jesus tells them that the one without sin can cast the first stone are judging with the intent to condemn to death. Jesus judged the woman also, yet exhorted her to "go and sin no more". He exhorted her to holiness, He never judged her with intent to condemn.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I know you're not judging. Everyone has an inherent right to their opinion and the expression of their point of view and you are just excersising that right. I very much appreciate your point of view. You make some interesting points. After I get some sleep I will address in more detail your posts.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by Akragon
 


it is righteous judgement: that person is not condemned to hell because he smoke cigarettes and drink beer, but that person is in at a hard place in his life and using these substances to cope with his situation, and the Christian rightfully judged that the homeless man is struggling. he rightfully judges that the bum is not the devil, but just a soul trying to go back to God. maybe God used that Christian man to bring the homeless person back to God because that Christian rightfully judged.


If you say so man...

why would that man be the devil?

I find that to be simple logic, not judging... You find it righteous judgement because instead of calling him names or just ignoring him, you helped him?

What if he called you a name, or perhaps if he smelled like he had not bathed in a year, would you still help him?

You're not judging this man by his situation in life... considerng him equal even though most would not...




posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 



i believe scenario 2 is what we call righteous judgement.


I believe scenario 2 is not judgement at all... its because you did not judge him that you chose to help... because you knew it was right...

To judge someone is to form an opinion of that person... Not helping someone in need.



No, "judging" is "deciding". The problem is when people decide with the intent to condemn, or decide with the intent to exhort and encourage a fellow man. The people in the story where Jesus tells them that the one without sin can cast the first stone are judging with the intent to condemn to death. Jesus judged the woman also, yet exhorted her to "go and sin no more". He exhorted her to holiness, He never judged her with intent to condemn.


deciding is the same as forming an opinion...

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

He did not judge her... and he ignored their requests of him to judge her...

He judged those that wanted to judge her for her "sin".... by saying IF you do not sin, then condem her...

There was no judgement on his part... he had no opinion.. and would not condem her for her sin.




edit on 11-1-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
reply to post by Akragon
 


it is righteous judgement: that person is not condemned to hell because he smoke cigarettes and drink beer, but that person is in at a hard place in his life and using these substances to cope with his situation, and the Christian rightfully judged that the homeless man is struggling. he rightfully judges that the bum is not the devil, but just a soul trying to go back to God. maybe God used that Christian man to bring the homeless person back to God because that Christian rightfully judged.


If you say so man...

why would that man be the devil?

I find that to be simple logic, not judging... You find it righteous judgement because instead of calling him names or just ignoring him, you helped him?

What if he called you a name, or perhaps if he smelled like he had not bathed in a year, would you still help him?

You're not judging this man by his situation in life... considerng him equal even though most would not...



lol don't take this offensively, but i laughed when you said "if he smelled like he had not bathed in a year," lol im still a young guy so hygiene jokes make me chuckle.

like noturtypical beautifully summed up with the story of the adulterer about to be stoned to death, the people's intent was to condemn. Jesus told her not to sin anymore, and he exhorted her to holiness.

the bible says that works is a byproduct of faith, and at first i think i would have been rather disturbed by his hypothetical smell, but i don't think it's really that important. the bible says if he cursed at me, i should let him curse at me again.

and sometimes, people tend to demonize people to for their own reasons.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



There was no judgement on his part... he had no opinion.. and would not condem her for her sin.


That's not true. He knew she was a sinner, and adultery was the specific sin in particular. That's why He told her "go and sin no more", instead of saying "Young lady, go your way, you have not sinned." People want to make "forming an opinion" or "making a decision" equal to "judging" as Christ condemned, that's not the case. We cannot exhort a backslidden brother unless we first decide or "make a judgment" that that brother is in error. It's good to exhort that person back to the Lord, it's not good to judge with the intent of condemning that person to hell.

The key most miss is the intent, are we judging to exhort and lift up and encourage, or are we judging to condemn and bring down?



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:47 AM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


Im glad i amuse you...

still you should understand what judging means... To form an opinion of a person based on external situations...

Regardless of this mans appearance he is equal to any other man... In that sence... by helping him you cast no judgement uppon him... treating him as he should be treated...

And i disagree with NYT as well...




posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 



There was no judgement on his part... he had no opinion.. and would not condem her for her sin.


That's not true. He knew she was a sinner, and adultery was the specific sin in particular. That's why He told her "go and sin no more", instead of saying "Young lady, go your way, you have not sinned." People want to make "forming an opinion" or "making a decision" equal to "judging" as Christ condemned, that's not the case. We cannot exhort a backslidden brother unless we first decide or "make a judgment" that that brother is in error. It's good to exhort that person back to the Lord, it's not good to judge with the intent of condemning that person to hell.

The key most miss is the intent, are we judging to exhort and lift up and encourage, or are we judging to condemn and bring down?


OF course its true... And of course he knew she was a sinner... we all are right... Which is why he said "those without sin cast the first stone"... none could cast a stone because their conscience betrayed them.... All have sined... Jesus already knew that and he chose not to judge her, but let her peers judge her if they dared... and they did not...

No judgement there my friend...




posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


You'r twisting it. Jesus also told her "go and sin no more". He was referring to her adultery. That very same Jesus also said this:

"Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” John 7:24


Now how do we reconcile BOTH TRUTHS from the Lord Jesus?? "Make righteous judgments" and "judge not lest ye be judged yourself"?

It boils down to intent. Are we making a judgment with the intent and purpose to lead another person back to holiness? To exhort them to press on to spiritual maturity? To encourage and lift them up, or strengthen their faith? Or are we judging to condemn and tear them down?



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon
 


You'r twisting it. Jesus also told her "go and sin no more". He was referring to her adultery. That very same Jesus also said this:

"Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” John 7:24


Now how do we reconcile BOTH TRUTHS from the Lord Jesus?? "Make righteous judgments" and "judge not lest ye be judged yourself"?

It boils down to intent. Are we making a judgment with the intent and purpose to lead another person back to holiness? To exhort them to press on to spiritual maturity? To encourage and lift them up, or strengthen their faith? Or are we judging to condemn and tear them down?


Im not twisting it...

Its right there in the text... he did not judge her...
4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

basically ignoring their temptation.... sooo

7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.


Again, ignoring their temptation.... but daring anyone to condem her... No one could

9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Everyone buggers off failing to convict Jesus of any sin, as usual... Then

10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

There is no judgement there... he says..."off ya go"... I won't condem you either, as you just said... he lifted her up... passed no judgement.... And later in the chapter you''ll read..

15Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

16And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me


When he said "sin no more" he wasn't refering to her adultry... he said SIN NO MORE... not just adultry


Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” John 7:24


Appearances or "after the flesh"? You should read the whole chapter before you use that particular verse... its not the same situation at all...



Now how do we reconcile BOTH TRUTHS from the Lord Jesus?? "Make righteous judgments" and "judge not lest ye be judged yourself"?


Again you need to read the whole chapter for meaning on that verse.... When he said that he was refering to those that were falsely judging him...


It boils down to intent. Are we making a judgment with the intent and purpose to lead another person back to holiness? To exhort them to press on to spiritual maturity? To encourage and lift them up, or strengthen their faith? Or are we judging to condemn and tear them down?


Thats true... but again that is why one should pass no judgements... let things be how they will be. Though i agree we should "point" people towards "holiness"...



Imho



edit on 11-1-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by applesthateatpeople

Originally posted by NeoVain
reply to post by I Want To Believe
 


Nothing wrong with the "message"...

It is still a religion...

(Religion = Brainwashing tool, designed to control the masses, by sapping their time and energy from relevant information ingestion by instead rehashing psalms, singing halleluja and praying to some mock up deity, with the deceptive "reward" of the feeling to "belong to a group", which unfortunately in this case, is just a group of uninteresting sheep)


I have no leader. I have no group. I am religious.

If it is a "tool, designed to control masses", why isn't it controlling me?

Because I live for God, my children and myself. I really don't care what anyone else believes, unless they ask me to.


Because your parents were religious? Because the school you went to promoted or taught Christianity/religion, Because you have subconsciously been guided towards religion from a child?

come on, it's not rocket science.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 05:03 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 
You make a good point ...When we look at the story of the religious man crossing the road to avoid the chap that had been beaten up and robed and the Samaritan man that went to his aid and took care of him we see 2 different judgements working ...The religious dude was showing a sort of religious,spritual pride that is very ugly ...A Christian is not exempt from falling into this sort of sin and unregenerated people see it and are sickened by it ..Judging in itself is not bad ,I think there is a good way to do it and there are probably many that fail . myself included...peace


edit on 11-1-2012 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by I Want To Believe
 


Youre missing one thing. Were not supposed to be tolerant of wickedness and condone sin.


You do realize that some of the most wicked and sinful things are done by self-proclaim righteous religious folks who dealt punishment and judgement onto others they deem wicked and sinful by their holy-book...

And many of these holy-books can be interpreted in many ways to suit whatever agendas such a group may have.

One maybe in the most wicked group/sub-group in human kind and not realize it. One only needs to look at the history of mankind to see it, it is still happening at present...

Knowledge is good, but our kind still needs alot of wisdom to make sure that knowledge isn't misused.

You will be surprised how fast the love and forgiveness in some religious folks can suddenly turn into total absolute hate and intolerance, especially when things get really bad.

These groups may have logic and common sense that are different from any others.
edit on 11-1-2012 by ixiy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 05:49 AM
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Plan B knows the score;
www.youtube.com...

Let me tell you a story.
It's called tough love.

Once upon a time there was a girl called Sonita.
Dreaded goin' home after school 'cause her dad would mistreat her.
Her mum was just as bad, when she got mad, was more than glad to lend a hand in helping him beat her.

Sonita, used to wear the cloth of her religon.
Sonita, used to pray to God, thought he was listening.
But nothin' ever changed, atleast she couldn't see a difference.
So the relationship between them both became distant.
She didn't agree with the fundemental religous views of her parents.
Might as well have been speaking jibberish.
To her, it was incoherent.
She was livin' in the Western world, Couldn't understand why she couldn't be like all the other Western girls.

So one day she rebels.
Walks into a shop and purchases a copy of Bliss.
A magazine for female teenagers.
Lyrics www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/plan_b/
Ripped off the plastic rapper, started flickin' through the pages.

Tough love, tough love.
I call it hatred................
That's your flesh, your blood, that's sacred.

So engrossed in her new found intrest, Sonita fails to realise the time.
Before she knows it, it's a quater to nine.
Should've been back from prayer an hour ago.
Now her parents are gonna know that she's skived.
In the slim hope that they won't, she hides the copy of Bliss inside the books under her arm and makes her way back home.

She opens the door to find her mum and dad waiting.
The expressions on both of their faces is scathing.
Before she has time to think of an excuse, her fathers hands are right round her neck like a noose.
So tight he chokes her.
She drops all her books on the floor except the Bliss mag which lands on the sofa.
Dad can't contorl his rage when he sees that the center page is a boy band poster.
'She's possesed by the devil!'
her mother shouts.
Blaming it on Satan, like it's the only explination.
Grabs Sonita by the hair, down to the basement.
Hearts racing like she knows her life's about to be taken.
They look her in the eyes, say,
' Here's what we're gonna do.
You've been possesed by a demon,
we're gonna beat him out of you.'

Sonita cries for help.
She sees her mum pick up a broomstick and her dad take off his belt.
It's no use, her brothers and sisters won't listen.
Undeterred, her parents carry out the excorsism.

Tough love, tough love.
I call it hatred...............
That's your flesh, your blood, that's sacred.

For hours they violently torture their daughter.
Beat her until an inch of her life until it's right on the border.
They continue to physically haunt her but now Sonita has a mental disorder.
She no longer cares if she lives or dies.
Absoloutley no more tears left to cry.
She's evilness in her parents eyes.
And thinks they're the ones who need to be excorsised.

That's when the rebelious streak completley intoxicates her.
Sudden rush of energy boosts a never before seen agressive nature.
She decides that no matter what they are never gonna break her.
' GO TO HELL! ' she screams at her dad as he goes to give her another lick with the belt.
' GO F**K YOURSELF! ' she screams at her mum, knowing that it's only gonna spur her on.
'Cause now Sonitas lost the plot.
The physical pain ain't nothing compared to the heartache when the heart breaks and it rots.
Once filled with so much love.
But now it's so clogged up with hate that it stops beating and she stops breathing.
Her body's just a carcass now, her soul's leaving.
No more pain.
No more bleeding.
Die slow, blow by blow from a severe beating.
It only takes half a dozen more blows to the head before they finally realise that she's dead.

That's when the door busts open and in come the FEDS.
The neighbours must've called them when they heard the screams of torment coming from the basement where Sonita's body lay.
Blatent like road kill out on the pavement.
It's quite clear to the police that she's been the victim of a horrific case of physical mutilation.

Tough love, tough love.
I call it hatred...............
That's your flesh, your blood, that's sacred.

After being apprehended, Sonita's parents were asked why their daughters life was so brutally taken.
They said it was out of love.
But only hate breaks something so hard it can never be mended.
To this day they show no remorse.
Their idea of parental guidance will always be to use force.
And what makes this tale even more gory is that this song is based on a true story.
TOUGH LOVE.
I rest my case.



edit on 11-1-2012 by Ozvaldo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 06:00 AM
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I just watched 2 short vids on another thread about Quantum Mechanics ..the second one is very interesting . I suggest watching both but take special note of the second ...peace
www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=11276150#pid11276150



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 06:57 AM
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reply to post by I Want To Believe
 


I see how George W Bush brought peace and love to Iraq and Afghanistan :

source

WAR: God Told Bush to Invade Iraq and Afghanistan

The war between religion is just started by the fools who don't know who will be taking the beneficiaries.
edit on 11/1/12 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


What one person considers wickedness and sin isn't always the same with another....

Some consider other religions "of the devil"... and wicked or sinful...

Personally i would consider those people wicked or sinful before the other religions they condem...



God laid down what sin was in the laws of Moses, it's there for anyone who wishes to read the Torah. He makes the laws, take it up with him if you have complaints. While we may not be chained to those laws under christianity were are still chained to Christ's laws and are governed by him who is our High Priest and our King.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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too bad there weren't more 'real' christians like you! i study alot of world religions(but follow none),and they all teach the same thing-peace and love. i am a pagan,and have the highest respect for the christ,as well as the buddah,krishna,mohammad,etc... i have a different outlook on things and believe my paganism gives me the freedom to look outside the box without being tied down by dogma.but in the end,the outcome is the same,love and help your fellow man,do not judge!
too many 'christians' are still living in the days of the inquisition,'you dont think like me so your going to hell! drop the witches hammer!',meanwhile i know more about their religion then they ever will! FOOLS!

any way,cool post. refreshing!
peace on earth and blessed be



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by I Want To Believe
 


Youre missing one thing. Were not supposed to be tolerant of wickedness and condone sin.


i understand this point of view... i provide a counterpoint, we are ALL sinners:
John 8:7: So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

i know the pharisees were asking Jesus about what he would do to the woman who was found committing adultery. when we take upon ourselves the roles and judgement of God, anguish arises. what did Jesus tell the adulterer? "Sin no more." without darkness, how could we appreciate the light? sometimes, sin makes a person suffer, and sometimes that suffering turns into passion for Christ. who are we to judge?


You're mistaking judgement for shunning sin. Yeah were all sinners, but we do not have to be. The book of Acts clearly states that with the Holy Spirit we have the option to stop sinning if we choose it. Paul,Peter,James,Barnabas and any other apostles present at the council of Jerusalem hammered out what we can do in tandem with obeying Christ's commands so that we remain true to him. Those are to not consume blood, eat of strangled things that retain blood, partake of foodstuffs offered to idols, commit sexual immoralities (adultery,homosexuality,unmarried sex, beastiality,masturbation all fall under this).

Basically the laws under Christ are simplified version of the laws of Moses, made easier to keep than the 630 mosiac laws. Jesus gave us his commands so we would not degenerate into lawlessness and debauchery. When Jesus forgave someone during his ministry years, he would say to them "go and sin no more", he did not say "go and sin some more!"



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