NEWS: Mushroom Cloud Seen After N.Korea Explosion 9/9/04

Originally posted by Flinx
news.bbc.co.uk...

North Korea is saying they blew up a mountain for a hydro-electric project.

There goes my meteor hypothises.

has anyone checked a map to see if there's a decent river in the area?

Originally posted by chaosrain
I firmly believe that this was an above ground test of nuclear weapons in North Korea. As for loss of civilian life...welcome to a dictatorship, screw the populace. The date matches.

I believe that the Powers That Be (the nations with the sensor and satellite technology to know what happened) have communicated with each other and have determined that the most appropriate response to such a test is to pretend it was non-nuclear. Effectively, it takes Kim Jong-Il's attempt at brinksmanship and renders it impotent. They simply don't want to give him the satisfaction of frightening the world so they're going to pretend that it did not happen.

You know, if that's the reason that the "powers that be" have decided not to report this as an above ground nuclear weapons test, I can't say I blame them. I wouldn't want to give Kim Jong Il III the satisfaction of scaring the world either.

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
Some people have pointed out that the sesmic records don't look like a nuke explosion. They point more towards multiple smaller explosions.

These were in fact multiple smaller nuclear explosions in the kiloton range and yes, they moved a lot of ground to effectively demolish a mountain.

I remember reading about such application of nukes back in Russia 30 years ago. What you have is a strange seismic signature AND the ability to claim you were doing some construction work (because you did).

Originally posted by Aelita
I remember reading about such application of nukes back in Russia 30 years ago. What you have is a strange seismic signature AND the ability to claim you were doing some construction work (because you did).

Actually the US had the Ploughshare program which looked at peacfull aplications of an atomic bomb. Like using them to carve another Canal in Panama etc. Bad idea IMHO or Project Orion which would have used atomic explosions to propell space craft.

this is some scary crap is there any photos of this incident

This is amazing. Page 17 of this thread contains the NK explanation of the blast as reported by the BBC, which is entirely consistent with the facts as known. RR98 posts some humorous and mocking comments that are right on target, yet this is still being discussed as a serious conspiracy topic here?

Give me a break!

Get real, get a life, and stop speculating over stupid CRxx that doesn't deserve a second glance and has already been explained in a satifactory manner!

Originally posted by SgtNFury
This is amazing. Page 17 of this thread contains the NK explanation of the blast as reported by the BBC, which is entirely consistent with the facts as known. RR98 posts some humorous and mocking comments that are right on target, yet this is still being discussed as a serious conspiracy topic here?

Give me a break!

Get real, get a life, and stop speculating over stupid CRxx that doesn't deserve a second glance and has already been explained in a satifactory manner!

Umm....what do you mean? This has yet to be satisfactorially explained IMO. Without actual photos of the cloud it is amolst impossible to say whether it formed a nuke-like cloud or a MOAB-like cloud. The difference is mostly in the shape of the top. In a nuke, and especially the H-bombs, the top is very, very smooth and even, like a jellyfish. This can be seen in the videos of nuclear tests and the Nagasaki explosion.

Why is this not a serious conspiracy topic?

On a side note, you sound like you are attempting to imitate the Colonel.

Originally posted by Aelita
These were in fact multiple smaller nuclear explosions in the kiloton range and yes, they moved a lot of ground to effectively demolish a mountain.

I remember reading about such application of nukes back in Russia 30 years ago. What you have is a strange seismic signature AND the ability to claim you were doing some construction work (because you did).

It's NOT actually a fact until the radiological evidence exists. To date there is none.
North Korea's possible nuclear arsenal is only estimated to contain around 20 or so possible nuclear devices. Do you really think they would use all of them in a test?
If I were a megalomanically dictator, it would not shot my whole load in a test. One small nuclear explosion would be enough to prove the point.

I highly doubt that if KJI was testing his nuclear capability he would try and disguise it. He would make it public, video tape it, and broadcast it on state television for the whole world to see.

Yahoo News
US Intel believes that the North Korean explination of the blast in their northern province coinceides with the evidence they have. At this time they do not believe the blast was from nuclear weapons testing.

At least their not still sticking to the forrest fire theory.

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
US Intel believes that the North Korean explination of the blast in their northern province coinceides with the evidence they have. At this time they do not believe the blast was from nuclear weapons testing.
At least their not still sticking to the forrest fire theory.

If its true and this was nothing. PHEW! I am waiting for the official report from the Brit diplomat who went to see the site. Kim may have been having fun with us or someone in the WHite House had time to come up with something better than the Forrest Fire story

THis is interesting, huh?


SEOUL Sept. 14 � North Korea is waiting out the American presidential election in order to bargain with the winner over its nuclear weapons program, according to analysts here and a British diplomat who left Pyongyang today.

"The North Koreans were saying they were still committed to the six-party talks process, but weren't prepared to commit to a date," Foreign Office minister Bill Rammell told reporters at Beijing airport today after a four-day visit to Pyongyang. "I simply said to them, `You have got to come back to the table.' "

One factor "is the timing of the American presidential election," Mr. Rammell said, according to Reuters. "I made clear to them my view that whoever wins the presidential election � whether it's President Bush or Senator Kerry � North Korea will be faced with broadly the same strategic policy from the United States, and this isn't just about the United States."




[edit on 14-9-2004 by bushblows]

Originally posted by bushblows
THis is interesting, huh?
One factor "is the timing of the American presidential election," Mr. Rammell said, according to Reuters. "I made clear to them my view that whoever wins the presidential election � whether it's President Bush or Senator Kerry � North Korea will be faced with broadly the same strategic policy from the United States, and this isn't just about the United States."
[edit on 14-9-2004 by bushblows]

It is interesting to say the least. Funny how despite Kerry's recent tirade on Bush's Korea strategy, NK views them as the same in term of NK policy

Oh I think the message from NK is quite opposite.
The message appears to be: we won't discuss anything nuclear with your current president, USA.

Check out this article below.


[edit on 14-9-2004 by bushblows]

North Korea talks may be victim of U.S. polls

14.09.2004 - 19:45
By Brian Rhoads and Benjamin Kang Lim

BEIJING (Reuters) - Hopes for a September round of six-party talks on the North Korean nuclear crisis have evaporated as Pyongyang
hinted it was awaiting the outcome of the U.S. presidential race.

The six countries involved -- North and South Korea, Japan, China, the United States and Russia -- last held talks in Beijing in June and had
agreed to hold another round by the end of September.

But Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Alexeyev was quoted as ruling out a meeting in September, while the U.S. envoy to the
talks said he was disappointed that the reclusive North was "stalling".

British Foreign Office minister Bill Rammell said after a four-day visit to North Korea that the U.S. election in November had featured in his
talks there.

North Korea was weighing whether it would have to deal in future with President George W. Bush, who early in his tenure declared it part of
an "axis of evil" alongside Iran and pre-war Iraq, or Democratic candidate John Kerry.




[edit on 14-9-2004 by bushblows]

Two interesting bits from a CNN article yesterday:

U.S. and South Korean officials are still skeptical over Pyongyang's explanation of the event.

Hydroelectric experts in Seoul have questioned the North's explanation, saying the relatively small Huchang river in the area made it an unlikely and unfeasible site for a major hydro power plant, according to Reuters reports.

The nation's media have also raised questions, with the Chosun Ilbo newspaper quoting a North Korean defector familiar with the region who said the body of water in the area was not sufficient for a large power plant.

CNN Article

Originally posted by chaosrain
Two interesting bits from a CNN article yesterday:

The whole explanation was very very fishy too me. Way to convient IMHO. This story still has not been told to my satisfaction IMHO. It bears some watching.....

Well I guess we can concider this post proven since NK decided to admit they had nukes. Was this there test?

No it was a train carrying toxic chemicals.

Originally posted by John bull 1
No it was a train carrying toxic chemicals.

Do you have a link to this? We're not talking about the train collision here. That came earlier. We're talking about the massive mushroom cloud that came from what U.S. officials called a forest fire and N. Korean officials called demolition of a mountainside to start work on a hydroelectric plant.