It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Open challenge to christians....

page: 8
8
<< 5  6  7    9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Communicationwillfreeus
 




I am not seeing were it is described as a "stone" mountain as you are portraying it to be and it doesn't mention a hill as a relative comparison, as did you. So you are assuming, from what you used as your example verse that it is a rock.
I recently had a literal "mountain" in my life removed by what I would consider faith. My mom and her church, along with other churches in our area, have been praying for my dad. He even kept a prayer cloth in his wallet from a hospital visit with my mom's pastor, who came to see him after he had tumors and 1/3 of his stomach removed. He was diagnosed with stage 2 stomach cancer after his surgery and has been undergoing chemo and radiation for a few months. We just found out, after Christmas, that dad has no cancer in his body. The doctor kept saying, "I don't understand how it can just be gone." Dad is up to 140lbs after his 127 low.
To prove my story is not B.S. you can type in on the search engine "My Dad Has Cancer" under the moniker "turkenstein"


Perhaps God willed your dad to be healed...as a result of your faith?

Fine, but the idea behind this thread was to get christians demonstrate their ability to do the impossible through their faith.


I am confused, do you think it was "possible" that the doctor healed him. At the beginning they told how bad it was going to be because stomach cancer is an ugly sight in it's last stages. They never once let on like he was going to be ok. Due to the reactions from the doctor's when they found no cancer, I would say that they were thinking that the results they were seeing wer "impossible," yet there they were. I understand what you are trying to do, but as a tempter aren't you playing "devil's adcovate"?




posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 08:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas
there is a reason why Christ spoke in parables

lets approach this verse in 2 ways: literally and metaphorically

at face value, faith would be a mustard seed that is able to move mountains, like a crazy magic mustard with infinite physical powers!

metaphorically: even if your faith in Christ is as little as a mustard seed, you will be able to tell mountains, or what seems to be like insurmountable obstacles in your life, to move.

Phillippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me


Exactly...... I did not read "stone mountain"



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 09:02 AM
link   
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



I guess you have already looked up the Hebrew and Greek words to make sure it is interperated exactly correctly? The bible was not written in english. It was translated into english.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 09:31 AM
link   
reply to post by Communicationwillfreeus
 
Oh those darn details .




posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 09:43 AM
link   
Matthew 17:14-20 When they came to the crowd, a man came up to Jesus, falling on his knees before Him and saying, (15) "Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is a lunatic and is very ill; for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. (16) "I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him." (17) And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me." (18) And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once. (19) Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, "Why could we not drive it out?" (20) And He *said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

Looking at the verse within context of the chapter I believe Jesus said this in reference to the disciples apparent "this is to big and we can't do it" mentality. I believe he was trying to make a point to them. In this case I believe it is both figurative and literal. Figurative in the sense that,

Matthew 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible"

and literal in the sense that,

James 4:13-15 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit." (14) Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. (15) Instead, you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that."

In other words If the Lord wills something to happen and uses man as his instrument as he often does this that verse is literal, if the Lord does not will it, then that verse is an inspiration for those who have faith and are facing "mountains" in their life.

Its not as if faith makes us magical, but instead is the tool by which God exercises His will through believers and by doing it through a believer can and will bring Glory back to himself.

If I may also add one would think that the disciples would have faith of a mustard seed, because they were actually seeing His power first hand. If they didn't have that size of faith what makes anyone think we would today?
edit on 11-1-2012 by ypourgos because: another point.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 01:31 PM
link   
I am a christian myself and i must say that i have faith as big as a mustard seed. (that should get some attention).
I am surprised that no one has tackled the challenge as i am about to. I don't normally get involved in these threads because people like the OP have no knowledge of god or his kingdom. It is like trying to explain string theory to a class of infants..Still..

I must stress that we as christians do nothing, all that we can do is to pray to God and ask him, through prayer, to do what we ask.

Now moving a mountain has to be classed as a miracle. Has the op ever heard of the gifts of the spirit? these are gifts that god gives us if and when needed. they are not permenant but temporary except for the gift of tongues..

The gift of miracles is one and so is the gift of faith. God knows how strong our faith is and we all have different levels of faith.
I have been fortunate to be given the gift of healing on many occasions but there are also the gift of faith and miracles.
If someone asks me for a healing prayer i first look at my level of faith that i have to believe that the person will be healed. Bad back, aching limbs or even frozen joints i have no problem with the faith required, but if the prayer was for a blind person then i would not be so confident so i would have to pray for the gift of miracles and faith. I am human just like everybody else so my faith can be weak at times. Does god want this person healed, will he heal this person? all these questions run through your mind. we can't help it because that is how we are made. I would now have to pray and ask god these questions.
If i get a very strong feeling that i should pray and i can't stop thinking about it then i take it that god will give me the gift of faith and miracles along with the gift of healing..
If i dont get that feeling or sense of peace about the healing prayer then i don't pray...
Sometimes someone won't ask for prayer but i get a very strong feeling that i should pray for someone, in all these cases i have talked to the person, then prayed for them and the prayer is answered..

Now i know that i have gone off track slightly here, but what i am saying is that it is not just a case of have faith and you can move mountains. Jesus may say you can but i am not the son of god. I'm just an average guy that believes in him and thank him that he uses me to help others. he knows me well and gives me the tools to do what i ask through prayer...

I won't be back on this thread again now because the origional question will now be followed up by more questions that may require twice as much input. The only way people will ever get the answers that they ask for, is by asking god.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 01:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by filosophia



No, it's not. It is a valid point.

According to the anonymous writers of the biographies of Jesus (commonly known as "gospels") - Jesus CLEARLY SAID THAT.


So based off ANONYMOUS writers you know what Jesus CLEARLY said. And you say that MY faith is hard to understand?


And HAVE YOU even understood what I wrote?


I am muslim. I do not subscribe to those ANONYMOUS writings. That is why I stated it.

I cannot say "Jesus said that" because I do not know if he REALLY SAID IT - but Christians believe he did - so, if they believe he did say that, then they should pretty please show us now how they can move mountains. Providing that they have at least as little faith as a mustard seed, that is.


Clear now?



Why do you continue to belittle Christianity by making the same claims against it that can be made against the Quran? Who wrote the Quran? Mohammad did not write one verse of the Quran. It was those who listened to him, who it is said wrote the Quran. The oldest surviving copy of the Quran dates to approximately 100 years after the death of Mohammad.

If we are to refuse the bible based on what you say than we must also refuse the Quran. For that matter we should refuse all religion except maybe scientology. At least we can prove that the first one who believed in it wrote it.

Is everything in the Quran to be taken literally?
edit on 11-1-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 01:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi

Originally posted by sacgamer25


You are right God cannot be tempted to sin.



No.
Not he cannot be tempted "to sin". But he cannot be tempted. PERIOD.

Jesus WAS TEMPTED.



As for the "contradictions" in the Qur'an - please feel free to create a thread about it. You will have a hard time. Especially to find anything similar to the above story of Jesus and the devil.
edit on 10/1/2012 by sHuRuLuNi because: (no reason given)


That is simply nonsense. The OP clearly has just tempted God. To say that God cannot be tempted in the since that you are saying makes no since.

By tempting me to do a miracle, he has tempted God. All miracles that are performed by men who believe in Christ are performed by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. So the OP is challenging the Holy Spirit to perform a miracle for him to believe. So he has tempted God. He will not see a mountain moved because God cannot be tempted.

You understand very little of the bible and of the meaning behind scripture. Might I suggest you listen to those who believe so that you may gain an understanding? Otherwise you speak out of ignorance. You do not see me pointing out verses in the Quran because I do not follow Mohammad. Because of this I would not tell you how you should interpret the Quran; rather I would accept your interpretation. But you refuse to give me the same respect that I would give you.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 02:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
The funniest epic fail many Christians have is they worship Jesus.
not one verse in ANY form says too do that
..effectively rendering them powerless and unable to ascend or do anything at all...since they feel lowly and weak...they knowingly give all their power away lol..
and to whom ??? Likely a deceiver!!
edit on 10-1-2012 by GrinchNoMore because: spelling


Ask anything in my name and it will be given. When we pray we should always pray in the name of Jesus. So exatly what are you not understanding?



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 02:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by SwissMarked
.........

It was all of two days ago a follower of Christ who puts John 3:16 under his eyes and is voraciously belittled for doing so was an 8.5 point underdog in a game no one thought he could possibly win after losing three straight games (one of which was to a team that is beyond pathetic) threw for 316 yards with an average of 31.6 yards per attempt against the leagues top defense...

.......


This was not a miracle.

Its called CHEATING.

sports.yahoo.com...

Only six Denver Broncos players were lined up on the line of scrimmage before the snap. NFL rules say that a team must have seven or more players on the line for a snap to be legal.



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 02:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nite_wing
I am just curious.
Why are people always challenging Christians?


They are NOT challenging Christians, they are judging them. You were warned that should you judge, so to will you be judged, and with what measure you mete, so will be brought against you.

You are reaping what you sow.

"Christian" is a filthy rag soiled in the sins of the past.

Repent and sin no more.

Do your good deeds in the name of the father and the Son that THEY may be glorified.

Love your neighbor as you love yourself.


Originally posted by Nite_wing
What is it to you what they believe?


They believe being judgemental, hard hearted, and unforgiving is the way to behave because Christians have shown them that.


Originally posted by Nite_wing
What do you believe?


I believe you can do so much better than you are doing if you worked toward reconciliation with ALL your brothers.


Originally posted by Nite_wing
Who are you people?


I am who I am.

Who do I sound like?


Originally posted by Nite_wing
What are your backgrounds?


Before Adam was, I am.


Originally posted by Nite_wing
Are you trying to show you are more intelligent than those who believe in Christianity?


No. I am trying to show you that christ lives within a tomb in your heart. The rock is all the bitterness and despair that you carry in this world from wrong you have not forgiven. I am begging to you, pleading with you, and at times, strongly rebuking you, in an effort to get you to roll that rock away and let the spirit of christ out through you.


Originally posted by Nite_wing
Are you searching or trying to discredit?


I am sharing.


Originally posted by Nite_wing
What is your agenda?


To restore that which was lost, to reveal that which is hidden, and to bring to earth the Kingdom of God.


Originally posted by Nite_wing
Why do you want to destroy it?


I come to destroy that which my father bids me to destroy. That which divides man from the whole, that will fall to dust, and from the ashes of the ruins will be pulled up a new Man, a new Heaven, and a new Earth.

With Love,

Your Brother
edit on 11-1-2012 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 02:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Well, obviously, they will be destroyed by Jesus once he gets here and burn in hell for all eternity along with the muslims, hindus, buddhists etc.



The bible says that all men will be judged by their deeds and what is in their heart. All men not just Christians.
The bible also says that all men will be judged based on what they know. And since you admit that you know the words of Christ, and few would argue against living with the kind of love that Christ had for the world, you will be judged by those words.

Do you see the bible says that the whole world will hear the message? Then says that all men will be judged by Christ. And since I have never met anyone that does not think the world would be a better place if we all loved like Christ than we can all be fairly judged by Christ.

You should consider that you agree with loving like Christ and thus should attempt to do this. It does not matter if you choose to read and believe in the entire source, all though it would help you. What you should worry about is you have agreed that the standard Christ set is good and you should live by that standard.

If you would live by that standard than you would be more concerned with helping others and less concerned with challenging God for a miracle.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by SwissMarked
Plain and simple... you want a Christian to perform a great miracle... fine... every doubter of every religion as well as all of you that are "too smart to believe in God" get together and come up with one miracle that will shut you all up for all of eternity and I'll perform it myself with the understanding that anyone that requests a second miracle from that point on... that doubts the miracle... or questions how it was performed will be instantly smote by a faithful follower of Christ on the spot...

That being said... not every pissant with a keyboard and a hardon for Jesus get to demand a miracle... so as I said... gather round all the skeptics... come up with something good... and on 12/12/12 I myself will perform it... and when I do... then you all better get on your knees and beg for forgiveness for your insolence... or deal with the repercussions of your lack of faith...

Clock is ticking... better get organized internet Einsteins...



I figured you needed to see this again. God Will Not Be Mocked, you sir (OP) push the boundaries of hatred.
edit on 12-1-2012 by Plotus because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-1-2012 by Plotus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 05:57 PM
link   
reply to post by Plotus
 



God Will Not Be Mocked, you sir (OP) push the boundaries of hatred.


Whoa, hold up there, brother. SwissM was not the OP, he was the OT (original troll) in the thread and a great big, asinine jerk, who was appropriately dressed down and run off.

The OP was challenging believers to prove their faith.....
The OT was just being an arse.....




posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 01:50 AM
link   
This is (for me) one of the final proofs of the sad failings of the once great disciples of Jesus Christ.

Imagine a world where there are 500 or even 250 or even 100 REAL or TRUE Disciples of Christ- self-less individuals who gave up their family, their wealth, their own comfort so as to venture out into the world from city to city, being able to literally move mountains with their faith, be unaffected by poisons or snakebites, fast for dozens of days, raise the dead, give sight to the blind, cure the sick, cast out demons, all through the power of fasting and prayer, not to mention bringing comfort and help to the poor and needy, all the while proclaiming the Word of God.

Instead, these days, we have self-interested, lazy, money-hungry preachers on TV, promising tenfold returns on your donations, which they then use to purchase ferraris for themselves and their wives and mistresses.


I guess all we can do is wait for the return of the Messiah.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 02:07 AM
link   
reply to post by babloyi
 
I was talking about this person I spent a couple days with who was like that, on another thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Of course this is the only person I know of who is like that.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 04:12 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Hahahahah....interestingly enough St. Francesco of Assisi, and to an extent the Franciscan Order, while not officially reported to have performed such miracles as I mentioned, were probably one of the last major great Christian groups that could've been said to have been called true disciples of Christ.



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 02:29 PM
link   
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 


I just read up on some history of gnosticism. I fail to see how definitional gnostics would give up their lives for an unknowable God who was too pure to have anything to do with the material universe. Gnosticism denies the incarnation of God as the Son and in so doing, it denies the true efficacy of the atonement since, if Jesus is not God, He could not atone for all of mankind leaving us lost in our sins.

The Romans didn't torture the Faithful for gnosticism, but for not renouncing faith in Jesus the Christ of God.

And regardless, we are warned of labels and divisions in 1 Corithians 1 anyways. Where Faith unites us, man's factions divide.

Get a grip.



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 07:59 AM
link   
reply to post by sacgamer25
 




The bible says that all men will be judged by their deeds and what is in their heart. All men not just Christians.


So then you basically believe that one is rewarded or punished based on their deeds and NOT whether or not they merely accepted Jesus died for their sins? Or is it supposed to be both?

I made a thread about it a while ago, and most christians did not agree on this idea.
www.abovetopsecret.com...




If you would live by that standard than you would be more concerned with helping others and less concerned with challenging God for a miracle.


I was not challenging God for a miracle. I dont want to, and that was not the purpose of this thread.
This thread was a challenge to many "christians" here on ATS who make certain claims because its there in the bible.

As I pointed out earlier, christians declare a certain verse "literal" if its something that they look forward to happening....such as the ones about Jesus returning in the skies and unleashing mayhem on non-christians.
And they declare a verse "metaphorical" if it makes them uncomfortable.... such as the ones calling for eyes to be plucked out of it causes sin...and of course, ordering mountains to be moved about.

I have observed how nimble christians are in dodging bible-related questions posed to them... in one way or another. Starting with the labelling of verses as "metaphorical" or "literal" to suit what they want to believe.....



edit on 14-1-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 14 2012 @ 08:05 AM
link   
reply to post by GoldenRuled
 



Originally posted by GoldenRuled

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Jesus said....


For verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
-Matthew 17:20


Thanks!
edit on 10-1-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: grammar

edit on 10-1-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: added verse in green

edit on 10-1-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

Matthew 4:7-Jesus said to him, "Again, Scripture says, 'Never tempt the Lord your God.' "
Why oh why would I want to tick Him off anymore than I already have? Especially from someone who wouldn't believe what they are seeing? Why don't you ask Him to help you see? You don't have to believe to ask God for something. He'll still hear you.



Who was asking you to tempt God?
I'm reading from YOUR bible where Jesus says that one with faith as a mustard seed can order a mountain to move.

Either, you are trying to dodge the challenge or you just pointed out another contradiction in the bible.



new topics

top topics



 
8
<< 5  6  7    9  10 >>

log in

join