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Fox News Chemtrail Propaganda

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posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by seabhac-rua
 


Just to help you with your quest.
The first contrail generators.
findarticles.com...

Although ubiquitous today, condensation trails were apparently unknown until World War I. Indeed, what may be the earliest reported observations of contrails were made in the autumn of 1918, as the Great War was drawing to a close. By the end of 1920, other sightings had been reported and several people had advanced preliminary explanations of the new phenomenon.


But if you can claim military contrails
Just remember to add the part about Chemicals added to Contrails with on-board storage tanks.


The original B-2 design had wing tanks for a contrail-inhibiting chemical

en.wikipedia.org...




posted on Jan, 11 2012 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Captain Beyond
 


You may wish to further "educate" your "friend":


clouds over his house were all crisscrossed....


Explain to him, by showing this next image. It is an example of the aeronautical charts used by airliners at cruise altitude.

Tell me: Since there are so many routes shown which "crisscross" on that map example, then why wouldn't actual jets in flight ALSO cross paths???:




You can see many MORE examples at this websitre:

www.skyvector.com....


Well Proudbird, contrails do not stay around all day long. I was in the military, and have seen many contrails from many types of jet aircraft and contrails dissipate rather quickly. I know where you were going with that. I appreciate your input, but the body of evidence from past to present is overwhelming. The spraying of "substances" from jet aircraft is indeed taking place whether you care to admit it or not.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by Captain Beyond


Well Proudbird, contrails do not stay around all day long.


Why not? They are water or ice droplets just like clouds, and clouds can be short or long lived - why not contrails?


I was in the military, and have seen many contrails from many types of jet aircraft and contrails dissipate rather quickly.


I was in the military too - not sure it's relevant tho!

And the fact that you only saw short lived contrails does not mean long lived ones do not exist - it just means you haven't' seen them. I have seen them - and scientists have studied them


I know where you were going with that. I appreciate your input, but the body of evidence from past to present is overwhelming. The spraying of "substances" from jet aircraft is indeed taking place whether you care to admit it or not.


There is no credible evidence to support such a conclusion - the only "body of evidence" is that contrails exist, and can hang around for hours depending on atmospheric conditions.

Eg this paper

or this one that mentions 4-5 hours

or how about a study of how contrails can expand and merge into cirrus clouds??
edit on 12-1-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by Captain Beyond
 



.....contrails do not stay around all day long. I was in the military, and have seen many contrails from many types of jet aircraft and contrails dissipate rather quickly.


Your military experience was with mostly low-bypass turbofan engines. You didn't specify the types. Or how long ago.

Many (most?) of the KC-135s have been re-engined. Same basic engine as the B-737. The KC-10s also form contrails, as those are high bypass turbofans (GE). But what has occurred in the last five to ten years is, more and more very fuel efficient engines are being produced, and appearing on newer airplanes as airlines replace old equipment in their fleets.

I too have seen plenty of the "classic" contrail in my day, since my career began in the late 1970s. But, I have also seen the gradual change, and understand the reasons why.

SO, kit is incorrect to say that "all" contrails dissipate quickly. The study of persistent contrails has been ongoing for quite a while. They were seen in WW 2, for pity's sake! Same reasons (airflow patterns of big propeller airplanes, compared to high bypass fans).

HERE is a study about persistent contrails, with "persistent contrails" in the title!! (From 2011)

Here, from 2001: Pathfinder Contrail Studies

(excerpt):

These figures (fig. 1 and fig. 2 ) from Dr. David Duda show the distribution of the frequency of occurrence of conditions favorable for formation of persistent contrails over the USA.



There is a lot more.


..... but the body of evidence from past to present is overwhelming. The spraying of "substances" from jet aircraft is indeed taking place whether you care to admit it or not.


The "substances" are mostly, the majority, is water vapor. The rest are the normal pollutants that occur when you burn kerosene.

There are NO photos, no proof, no evidence of any concerted "spraying" efforts underway. NO one has seen it, nor is there any infrastructure, such as manufacturing and distribution, for facilities seen where airplanes are on the ground (only way to "load something") where this occurs.

Period.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by mrno1
Why are we spending 15 million a year on cloud seeding is the real question?

imagine if you could change the battlefield of your enemy. At least thats what the military is probally thinking.
The reason we lost so many men on burger hill in vietnam was due to it raining and troops were getting mowed down as they slipped and fell down the hill.
edit on 12-1-2012 by Foxy1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by Foxy1

Originally posted by mrno1
Why are we spending 15 million a year on cloud seeding is the real question?

imagine if you could change the battlefield of your enemy. At least thats what the military is probally thinking.
The reason we lost so many men on burger hill in vietnam was due to it raining and troops were getting mowed down as they slipped and fell down the hill.


The US military considered "Operation Popeye" to be "moderately successful" according to the wiki article.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Captain Beyond
 



.....contrails do not stay around all day long. I was in the military, and have seen many contrails from many types of jet aircraft and contrails dissipate rather quickly.


Your military experience was with mostly low-bypass turbofan engines. You didn't specify the types. Or how long ago.

Many (most?) of the KC-135s have been re-engined. Same basic engine as the B-737. The KC-10s also form contrails, as those are high bypass turbofans (GE). But what has occurred in the last five to ten years is, more and more very fuel efficient engines are being produced, and appearing on newer airplanes as airlines replace old equipment in their fleets.

I too have seen plenty of the "classic" contrail in my day, since my career began in the late 1970s. But, I have also seen the gradual change, and understand the reasons why.

SO, kit is incorrect to say that "all" contrails dissipate quickly. The study of persistent contrails has been ongoing for quite a while. They were seen in WW 2, for pity's sake! Same reasons (airflow patterns of big propeller airplanes, compared to high bypass fans).

HERE is a study about persistent contrails, with "persistent contrails" in the title!! (From 2011)

Here, from 2001: Pathfinder Contrail Studies

(excerpt):

These figures (fig. 1 and fig. 2 ) from Dr. David Duda show the distribution of the frequency of occurrence of conditions favorable for formation of persistent contrails over the USA.



There is a lot more.


..... but the body of evidence from past to present is overwhelming. The spraying of "substances" from jet aircraft is indeed taking place whether you care to admit it or not.


The "substances" are mostly, the majority, is water vapor. The rest are the normal pollutants that occur when you burn kerosene.

There are NO photos, no proof, no evidence of any concerted "spraying" efforts underway. NO one has seen it, nor is there any infrastructure, such as manufacturing and distribution, for facilities seen where airplanes are on the ground (only way to "load something") where this occurs.

Period.


Then why in the 60's did these so called multiple contrails not exsist? I cannot ever remember as a teenager seeing the same things I see in the sky today? Unclassified government documents have stated that certain parts of this country were guinea pigs for aerial testing on the population. You can google it and find all the information you need. I applaud your scientific approach to this subject, but all that we see in the sky are not all contrails. I sense that you have a vast knowledge of aviation, but again, all is not black and white. I know there are many variables at play here, and some contrails may persist longer than others, but my gut instinct tells me different. I fully believe that this is worldwide, and not just limited to the United States. Chemtrails are real, and they are part of a much larger plan. What plan? I don't know, stay tuned and we will eventually find out.



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by Captain Beyond
 


You quoted my entire post. The answer was up there ^ ^ ^ ---


Then why in the 60's did these so called multiple contrails not exsist?


Look up the airplanes and their engine types, from the 1960s.

Pratt & Whitney JT8D was the "workhorse" in the B727, B-737 (earliest models, such as the -100 and -200), the DC-9/MD-80 models (from McDonnell Douglas). (To name those commercial airliners operated in the USA).

Look here.


The Pratt & Whitney JT8D is a low-bypass (0.96 to 1) turbofan engine, introduced by Pratt & Whitney in February 1963 with the inaugural flight of Boeing's 727. It was a modification of the Pratt & Whitney J52 turbojet engine, which powered the US Navy A-6 Intruder attack aircraft.


See that ^ ^ ^? The J52 turboJET engine (not FAN) predecessor.

Prior to the JT8D, there was the J52, developed in 1955. That version had various applications in many military fighters.

But, the J52 was the "smaller cousin" of the larger version, and that (the J57) had many uses, and among them (besides the military), the civilian designation (JT3C) were in the first commercial passenger jets from Boeing and McDonnell Douglas:


JT3C (Civilian)

Boeing 707
Boeing 720
Douglas DC-8


ALL of those turboJET engines were noisy, more "thirsty", and dirtier (smoky) than the current technologically advanced crop of very quiet, efficient and much cleaner burning turboFAN engines of today.

This efficiency, and change in design, leads to more persistent contrails...the types of contrails made will, when conditions in the atmosphere are favorable, linger longer.

Plus, the range of contrail formation conditions is wider as well, with these engines.

This is all readily available to research on the Web.......



posted on Jan, 12 2012 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Beyond


Then why in the 60's did these so called multiple contrails not exsist?


They did - you not seeing them doesn't mean they didn't exist - here's a picture from 1967



Unclassified government documents have stated that certain parts of this country were guinea pigs for aerial testing on the population. You can google it and find all the information you need.


Yep - it's not secret any more.

And it is also not evidence that they are doing he same thing today - the programmes all stopped in the 1970's AFAIK - be happy to see any evidence otherwise.

Also there are several differences from contrails to what was being sprayed back then:

AFAIK it wasn't "sprayed" from engines as contrails are. This video is of the British equivalent tests & AFAIK is the only video of any of them - if there is any more I think everyone would like to know:



Note that the "chemtail" actually seems to dissipate quite quickly - exactly the opposite of the current chemtrail theory! I's not coming from engines, ther is no gap between hte a/c and the start of he trail (as there is for contrails)

Also they were spraying markers - substances that were designed to be found - so they could see how far they had spread - that was the purpose. IIRC Zinc cadmium sulphate was the main one in the UK & was also used in the USA - it is fluorescent and so extremely obvious.

The biological markers I don't recall off hand....perhaps someone could provide a bit more info about them.



but all that we see in the sky are not all contrails.


So far you have no evidence to back up that statement


but my gut instinct tells me different.


You applaud the scientific approach by others - why not practice it yourself??


I fully believe that this is worldwide, and not just limited to the United States.


Contrails certainly are - as are chemtrail conspiracy believers - have a look at peekay22's YT channel - he's in Australia.

Or Clare Swinney's chemtrail/haarp/conspiracy blog from New Zealand



Chemtrails are real, and they are part of a much larger plan. What plan? I don't know, stay tuned and we will eventually find out.


Again - you applaud others using scientific method - but then make "factual" statements like these without a shred of evidence. You aren't even offering to do any investigation yourself - you're just expecting "it" to be discovered by magic as far as I can see!

If you are serious then why not plan a course of investigation that could discover these things, or find out what other believers are doing to do so and at least check how they are going??
edit on 12-1-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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Cloud seeding and ChemTrails are not the same thing!




posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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Chemtrails are real. Not everything we see in the sky are chemtrails. The harder the debunkers try to debunk chemtrails, the more I believe in them. There are many federal elements on this website trying to debunk and defuse the truth. Evidence? Barium and aluminium and other elements falling from the sky after these trails are spotted? There have been other posters on this site with pictures of aircraft fitted with tanks internally with external nozzles. Oh I know, these large aircraft are for spraying crops, right? I might ask the debunkers, what is your G level, and classification?



posted on Jan, 19 2012 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by Captain Beyond
 


There are some of us who simply hate to see such ignorance abound, as it is spread by the "chemtrail" con artists. These are charlatans and hucksters who prey on the gullible, and the ill-informed. But, for those who are willing to be led around and remain clueless, it's a free world:


The harder the debunkers try to debunk chemtrails, the more I believe in them. There are many federal elements on this website trying to debunk and defuse the truth.


"Federal elements"??


Oh, that is hilarious....since for every American who claims to "believe" in so-called "chemtrails", and insists that they are"real", there are just about an equal amount of people from Canada, Great Britain, Scandinavia, Europe and even "down under" who do as well.

Gee, the "federal elements" of the U.S. government have quite the reach, eh??



Evidence? Barium and aluminium and other elements falling from the sky after these trails are spotted?


This is a lie. There is NO truth whatsoever to these claims. Anyone who believes this without proper fact-checking of sources and results is being duped.



There have been other posters on this site with pictures of aircraft fitted with tanks internally with external nozzles.


Oh, yes there have. I can recall a recent thread with photos of a C-130 Hercules specially equipped in that manner.

HOWEVER, what the mission of that set-up was for, is to spray herbicides and insecticides and such (and, was put to use in the Gulf of Mexico for the BP oil spill, to distribute dispersant).

ALL of those activities are well-known, in the news, not covert, and ALL done at low altitudes.

This is easy to research, and thus educate oneself about.

AS TO some other alleged "evidence" via photos? There have been a slew of hoaxed photos, and outright lies told about normal, everyday apparatus, which have been discussed to death on these threads as well. Many of these mislabeled/mis-identified photos are still being used on countless crap "chemtrail" hoax websites.


But again --- those who wish to remain ignorant do so as wished. It just seems that taking the time to bone up on science and facts and reason are for more fruitful........



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Captain Beyond
 


There are some of us who simply hate to see such ignorance abound, as it is spread by the "chemtrail" con artists. These are charlatans and hucksters who prey on the gullible, and the ill-informed. But, for those who are willing to be led around and remain clueless, it's a free world:


The harder the debunkers try to debunk chemtrails, the more I believe in them. There are many federal elements on this website trying to debunk and defuse the truth.


"Federal elements"??


Oh, that is hilarious....since for every American who claims to "believe" in so-called "chemtrails", and insists that they are"real", there are just about an equal amount of people from Canada, Great Britain, Scandinavia, Europe and even "down under" who do as well.

Gee, the "federal elements" of the U.S. government have quite the reach, eh??



Evidence? Barium and aluminium and other elements falling from the sky after these trails are spotted?


This is a lie. There is NO truth whatsoever to these claims. Anyone who believes this without proper fact-checking of sources and results is being duped.



There have been other posters on this site with pictures of aircraft fitted with tanks internally with external nozzles.


Oh, yes there have. I can recall a recent thread with photos of a C-130 Hercules specially equipped in that manner.

HOWEVER, what the mission of that set-up was for, is to spray herbicides and insecticides and such (and, was put to use in the Gulf of Mexico for the BP oil spill, to distribute dispersant).

ALL of those activities are well-known, in the news, not covert, and ALL done at low altitudes.

This is easy to research, and thus educate oneself about.

AS TO some other alleged "evidence" via photos? There have been a slew of hoaxed photos, and outright lies told about normal, everyday apparatus, which have been discussed to death on these threads as well. Many of these mislabeled/mis-identified photos are still being used on countless crap "chemtrail" hoax websites.


But again --- those who wish to remain ignorant do so as wished. It just seems that taking the time to bone up on science and facts and reason are for more fruitful........


You know when someone seeks to denigrate another person, they only denigrate themselves. I am not ignorant, or a charlatan, or huckster. And yes, there are many federal elements on this website. I guess that is a lie too? I don't need smiley emoticons attached to my post either. We will let time be the judge of who is right, or who is wrong. This is the greatest measure of the truth.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by Captain Beyond
 



I am not ignorant, or a charlatan, or huckster.


NO, of course you are not a charlatan, nor a huckster. But, you are a victim of their chicanery. Even smart people can be taken in by these clever snake oil salesmen.

When I say "victim", I mean that the nonsense and pseudo-scientific razzle-dazzle the actual con-artists spew is quite effective at sowing confusion, and specially appeals to emotion, and tries to stoke "outrage" in people's minds.

The stories of "barium" and "aluminum" levels being elevated due to "sprayin"? Poppycock, plain and simple. These are initially either outright lies (which are taken up by other victims, who similarly just 'believe', without checking the facts more thoroughly) or are simple mistakes and mis-characterizations (such as the KSLA News report incident, which is trotted out so often on so many "chemtrail" websites).


You see, the truth is, this entire cottage industry of hoax and flim-flam began (in part) originally by a guy named Will Thomas, who guested on the Art Bell AM radio show. It seems that Art Bell may have been in on it too....one of their goals was to suggest that what are really normal persistent contrails (to the rest of us) were somehow "dangerous"...but they (Bell and Thomas) would gladly sell you an elixir or potion that would help protect you from the "effects" of the so-called "chemtrails".


This thing has ballooned into fringe territory ever since --- spurred on by a few more con-artists who jumped on the band wagon, to name just one other major "player", Cliff Carnicorn.

And so it goes, 'round and 'round.......


edit.....oh, and almost forgot......that most annoying and loudest BS artist currently out there, at least in these matters: Alex Jones.






edit on Sat 21 January 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)




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